Are Northern Europeans Barbarians?

[Anglojew]

I have a theory that CIVILISATION was destroyed by Barbarians who've only replicated it in part and not entirely. If we look at the ancient world CIVILISATION (not counting China or the Indus Valley) was centred around the eastern mediterrean for thousands of years. People within this paradigm eg the Roman and Persian Empires and those preceding them (Egypt, Assyria, Greece) had a word for Germans and Slavs; Barbarians.

It is therefore irrefutable that Northern Europeans were Barbarians to the Greeks. My contention is that CIVILISATION was destroyed by a combination of Barbarians from the cold north (Germans, Slavs) and from the deserts (Arabs) and that except for our retention of Laws from CIVILISATION and technological developments our society had retained all the barbaric traits of these ice and desert Barbarians from the extremes eg warlike selfishness.

I think our current CIVILISATION is a pale immitatiom of the ancient worlds and the barbarians are destroying it anyway through their suicidal policies of multiculturalism and political correctness, cultural relativism and mass immigration of more desert barbarians all conveniently blamed on the Jews who are in fact the most outspoken representatives of the real CIVILISATION which is why they are constantly persecuted by both barbaric groups who we shall call Ice barbarians and desert barbarians.

The barbarians unstable nature will lead to their ultimate downfall. I hope that the Ancient values Jews and some others have preserved and tried to teach to the barbarians will lead to a new better less selfish CIVILISATION that is truly a commonwealth.

I'm still developing my theory so would like your input. The main contention is that societies with extreme conditions eg deserts or cold develop less tolerant civilizations due to less resources. I guess the spread or real CIVILISATION had spread because of improvements in Europes weather after the last ice age. Fertile places eg the ancient eastern mediterrean developed more utopian societies which were destroyed by warlike barbarians from the north and south.

Please discuss.

[finþaų]

Civilization arose around the East Mediterranean/Fertile Crescent due to the suitable conditions, which allowed for irrigation and thus large-scale agriculture. Environmental factors made the initiation of civilization borderline impossible in temperate/sub-arctic regions.

I don't think North Europeans are genetically predisposed to antagonize the concept of civilization. Rome brought upon its own destruction; the constant "barbarian invasions" were merely symptoms of more fundamental issues pertaining to the integrity of the Roman state and nation.

[Leon_C]

The word 'barbarian' is simply a term that was used by Romans and Greeks to refer to anyone that was not a Roman or Greek. the true meaning of the word is simply one who is not Roman or Greek, It does not mean uncivilized.

[Libertas]

The new TV series "The Dark Ages" is laughable.
As if the Huns or Vandals created that skilled but rather gaudy art.
It was created by their subject peoples working to produce for their crude and vulgar Hunnic and Germanic masters.

[Virtuous]

Yeah, screw all the great architecture of ancient Rome and Greece, all the advancements made in technology, the politics, the philosophers. Nordic people were always superior to South Europeans since the days of their rituals round the fire.

[Anusiya]

The only ones who managed to prosper well and become the pinnacle of modern civilization were the Saxons, who followed the example of the Greeks.

To Greeks barbarians were the Persians because of this:

http://www.world-spirit-art.com/photos/Ancient-Persian-Photos/Farvahar6.jpg

It's pronounced: "Farvahar"

Imagine the scene when they attempted to pronounce it! :D

[Anglojew]

The only ones who managed to prosper well and become the pinnacle of modern civilization were the Saxons, who followed the example of the Greeks.

To Greeks barbarians were the Persians because of this:

http://www.world-spirit-art.com/photos/Ancient-Persian-Photos/Farvahar6.jpg

It's pronounced: "Farvahar"

Imagine the scene when they attempted to pronounce it! :D

Yes, it could be argued Saxons and their Viking cousins are the only real CIVILISATION in the last 1000 years having produced he English, Norman, German, Russian, Italian (Lombard), French (Frank), Spanish (Visigoth) cultures but based upon an earlier classical model.

Does this mean that the northern barbarians are the heirs to Greece and Rome and the real fight is between them and desert imperialism eg Islam?

[Corvus]

Anglojew why are you consistently trying to bash Northern Europeans
Everyone envies them and wishes to be Northern because they are the most capable humans. Every statistc proves that.

[Anusiya]

Does this mean that the northern barbarians are the heirs to Greece and Rome and the real fight is between them and desert imperialism eg Islam?

No and no. All peoples from the far East to Americas have experienced more or less massive wars, power struggles and fluctuations that no Germanic has ever experienced enough to be able to "digest" it well. I somehow believe it's still an unsolved DNA thing the northern people have. Still...

Desert imperialism? No, I wouldn't call thin and undernourished people living in the deserts imperialists. They simply refuse to change, and that's it. There's more toxin in red meat btw. ;)

[Atlantic Islander]

Everyone envies them and wishes to be Northern

That's untrue.

[ficuscarica]

The northern "Barbarians" have reached a higher level of civilization than the southern non "Barbarians". In fact, Africans long ago were probably higher developed than North Europeans, so were Iraqis. Doesn´t change that practically all modern technology is northern European and northern Europeans have build a world that makes the ancient Roman world (or any southern world not based on northern technology) look like a primitive joke which they could bomb away in seconds.

The Barbarians are mainly south of the Alps. They would still live without electricity, bicycles, cars and computers without the North Europeans. They would drive around in donkey carts and would get their water from aquaeducts *lol*... so who is a Barbarian?

[Geminus]

The northern "Barbarians" have reached a higher level of civilization than the southern non "Barbarians". In fact, Africans long ago were probably higher developed than North Europeans, so were Iraqis. Doesn´t change that practically all modern technology is northern European and northern Europeans have builld a world that makes the ancient Roman world look like a primitive joke which they could bomb away in seconds.

The bavarians are mainly south of the Alps. They would still live without electricity, cars and computers without the North Europeans.

That's true, today Northern (in a more general sense) people have reached the highest standard of living and civilization.
The time of the Romance people is gone, now is the time of the Northern, and more specifically, of the Germanic people. Probably one day the Asians will surpass us, but not likely in a few generations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

The top 10 countries with the highest Human Development Index are Germanic countries, so it's quite hard to argue against this fact.

[d3cimat3d]

They would still live without electricity, bicycles, cars and computers without the North Europeans.

Those were Central Europeans, not real northerners.



The bavarians are mainly south of the Alps. They would still live without electricity, bicycles, cars and computers without the North Europeans.

Not true. Rome still dominates, just look at the map of Europe at night.

http://i50.tinypic.com/qowxg5.jpg

[ficuscarica]

Those were Central Europeans, not real northerners.



Not true. Rome still dominates, just look at the map of Europe at night.

http://i50.tinypic.com/qowxg5.jpg

I thought Central Europeans were included in North Europeans here (north of the Alps vs south of the Alps). Rome is an economical joke compared to Northern cities like Munich. The only wealthy part of Italy is North Italy. And their lights and electricity which you see - they have it from the Northern European "Barbarians", which brought light to the backwards pre-industrial darkness of donkey cart Italy.... which brought electricity, light bulbs, computer, cars and so on.

The "dominating Romans" not only need North European financial help, they drive around in cars invented by North Europeans, use electricity and computers invented by North Europeans, etc. The truth is, not only did North Europeans give them modern life, they also gave them a life much higher developed than anything those Southerners have ever achieved.

The truth is, the "Barbarians" have developed things light years ahead of any southern civilization that is not built on northern technology.

[Corvus]

That's untrue.

Why every Southern European or Central European wants to be Northern, some openly admit it, some don`t. Not to mention Middle Eastern populations or Africans

[d3cimat3d]

I thought Central Europeans were included in North Europeans here (North of the Alps vs South of the Alps). Rome is an economical joke compared to Northern cities like Munich. The only wealthy part of Italy is North Italy. And their lights and electricity which you see - they have it from the Northern Europeans "Barbarians", which brought light to the backwards pre-industrial darkness of donkey cart Italy.... which brought electricity, light bulbs, computer, cars and so on.


Northern people have better motivation, part of which is fueled by their pride and sense of superiority over the others. Southerners are more chill and don't really give two fucks about being better because they have enough, and live comfortably. Success is not measured in wealth IMO. People spend their whole life being work-a-holics and by the time their life is nearing its end they realized they wasted it all.



The "dominating Romans" not only need North European financial help,


Yeah but they kick started your growth spurt. The people living in Britannia didn't even know there was a world outside of their island before the Romans showed up.



they drive around in cars invented by North Europeans,

Lamborghini and Ferrari are still the epitome of cars.

[Jackson]

Basically i guess a Romanesque civilization in the hands of northern Europeans is everybody else's problem. I think Rome's policy of keeping the northern barbarians separate from the Roman World kinda backfired in the long run...

[ficuscarica]

Northern people have better motivation, part of which is fueled by their pride and sense of superiority over the others. Southerners are more chill and don't really give two fucks about being better because they have enough, and live comfortably. Success is not measured in wealth IMO. People spend their whole life being work-a-holics and by the time their life is nearing its end they realized they wasted it all.



Yeah but they kick started your growth spurt. The people living in Britannia didn't even know there was a world outside of their island before the Romans showed up.



Lamborghini and Ferrari are still the epitome of cars.

I am just saying that the Southerners´ achievements are simply a joke compared to what North Europeans achieved. And obviously they are not content with what they have... they ask for Northern European financial help and gladly use Northern European technology. All their modern life was invented by Northerners. Northern Europeans were inspired by southerners. That doesn´t change the fact that the North Euro invention based world is so infinitely much more developed than what the Southerners did, it´s almost unbelievable.

Lamborghinis and Ferraris would not exist if the Germans had not invented the cars. The Italians wouldn´t even have bicycles without the German Drais. They would use donkey or horse carts.

[Virtuous]

Leonardo Da Vinci, Galileo Galilei, Archimedes, Nikola Tesla and many others are not Nordic as far as I know.

[Zmey Gorynych]

they were in antiquity, today they're the civilized ones ...

[ficuscarica]

Leonardo Da Vinci, Galileo Galilei, Archimedes, Nikola Tesla and many others are not Nordic as far as I know.

Tesla is the only one in that list that contributed to the modern world of cars, computers, electricity, trains, airplanes, motorcycles, light bulbs, etc. Basically all the modern world is northern European based with only a few exceptions.

Take away British and German inventions and Europe south of the Alps is still pre-industrial. A world the Northern Europeans could erase in hours. The Southerners would think the Gods had come to destroy them when the Northerners showed up in cars and planes to fight them with their donkey carts and swords.

[Virtuous]

Tesla is the only one that contributed to the modern world of cars, computers, electricity, trains, airplanes, motorcycles, light bulbs, etc. Basically all the modern world is northern European based with only a few exceptions. Take away British and German inventions and Europe south of the Alp is still pre-industrial.

More like all the modern world's "Nordic" technology is an imitation, continuation or discovery of Southern/Central Europeans' discovery.

[finþaų]

More like all the modern world's "Nordic" technology is an imitation, continuation or discovery of Southern/Central Europeans' discovery.

...which in turn is derived from Near Eastern proto-technology (Sumeria, Egypt, Mesopotamia). The Iraqis are the true Herrenmenschen. :D

Or, the forlorn backwardness of North and ultimately South Europeans could be attributed to the less appropriate environmental conditions.

[Insuperable]

Northern Europeans were barbarians and now Southern Europeans are barbarians. Close the thread.

[Anglojew]

Anglojew why are you consistently trying to bash Northern Europeans
Everyone envies them and wishes to be Northern because they are the most capable humans. Every statistc proves that.

It's only a theory at his point. I'm half Northern European and basically Northern European in culture. I think northern euros are successful because they most mimic the classical culture but have a tendency for self destruction eg fighting amongst themselves.

Steppe barbarians (Turks) could be added to the mix. Perhaps the future Belongs to which ever of these barbarian groups best utilizes the original CIVILISATIONs culture?

[Virtuous]

...which in turn is derived from Near Eastern proto-technology (Sumeria, Egypt, Mesopotamia). The Iraqis are the true Herrenmenschen. :D

Yuppety yup!

[ficuscarica]

Northern Europeans were barbarians and now Southern Europeans are barbarians. Close the thread.

Kinda sad but true.

[d3cimat3d]

That doesn´t change the fact that the North Euro invention based world is so infinitely much more developed than what the Southerners did,


Is that actually a fact though?


The Italians wouldn´t even have bicycles without the German Drais

The bicycle was actually invented by da Vinci.

http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2010/12/leonardo-da-vincis-bicycle.html

[Jackson]

More like all the modern world's "Nordic" technology is an imitation, continuation or discovery of Southern/Central Europeans' discovery.

I agree, southern Europe and the Near East had that spark of civilization. If you look at ancient history in relative terms of the Middle East is the centre civilization at least in Western Eurasia (I know Eastern Eurasia f.e parts of India and the far east were also very advanced). I think we are just the latest iteration of what they began, we are doing well so far...but i think we were lucky to have something to start on.
I think war might have something to do with it as well, we seem be/have been quite warlike and many of the biggest inventions have come from or been related to warfare.

Edit: Not to besmirch our achievements, as they are phenomenal, but we would probably still be a tiny population scratching a living in the dirt if it wasn't for a shift to sedentism. Being tied to the land allowed a lot of later developments, i feel.

[ficuscarica]

More like all the modern world's "Nordic" technology is an imitation, continuation or discovery of Southern/Central Europeans' discovery.

All have been inspired by others, as finbau said. However, the "Barbarian civilizations" have achieved infinitely more than southern civilizations.

[Anglojew]

Also both main barbarian groups have basically been colonizing the world since they took over and borrowed from the original civilization and now the main war is between The northern and the desert tribes eg Iraq, Afganstan, 911, Jihad etc.

Maybe Russian and the Turks are 2 slightly separate subgroups?

[Anglojew]

I'm being controversial to stimulate discussion but I think you guys see my basic point.

[Virtuous]

Northern Europeans were barbarians and now Southern Europeans are barbarians. Close the thread.

I wouldn't go as far as "barbarians" but we have made a lot of regress in certain aspects, such as economy, corruption and so on.

If it wasn't Hitler who instilled strictness, discipline, perfectionism, determination (all the good qualities that have made an impact on Germany), I wonder how it would have been today?

[ficuscarica]

Is that actually a fact though?



The bicycle was actually invented by da Vinci.

http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2010/12/leonardo-da-vincis-bicycle.html

Englishmen and Germans invented:
- the car
- modern industry
- the bicycle
- the airplane
- computers
- light bulbs
- motorcycles
- most motors
=> the modern world



Karl Drais (April 29, 1785 – December 10, 1851) was a German inventor, who invented the Laufmaschine ("running machine"), also later called the velocipede, draisine (English) or draisienne (French), also nicknamed the dandy horse. This incorporated the two-wheeler principle that is basic to the bicycle and motorcycle and was the beginning of mechanized personal transport. Drais also invented the earliest typewriter with a keyboard in 1821, later developed into an early stenograph machine, and a wood-saving cooker including the earliest hay chest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Drais


The dandy horse, also called Draisienne or laufmaschine, was the first human means of transport to use only two wheels in tandem and was invented by the German Baron Karl von Drais. It is regarded as the forerunner of the modern bicycle and was introduced by Drais to the public in Mannheim in summer 1817 and in Paris in 1818

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle

[finþaų]

I wouldn't go as far as "barbarians" but we have made a lot of regress in certain aspects, such as economy, corruption and so on.

If it wasn't Hitler who instilled strictness, discipline, perfectionism, determination (all the good qualities that have made an impact on Germany), I wonder how it would have been today?

Hitler did not instill the (largely protestant-derived) work ethic in Germans. They were an efficient bunch long before him.

[Virtuous]

Hitler did not instill the (largely protestant-derived) work ethic in Germans. They were an efficient bunch long before him.

As far as I know there wasn't much left after WWI, situation was much like today's Southern Europe.

[Libertas]

Hitler did not instill the (largely protestant-derived) work ethic in Germans. They were an efficient bunch long before him.

The Chinese and Indians are not usually Protestants and yet they could outwork any westerner, Protestant or not.

[ficuscarica]

The Chinese and Indians are not usually Protestants and yet they could outwork any westerner, Protestant or not.

Yet without western technology they would still be in the middle ages.

[Libertas]

Yet without western technology they would still be in the middle ages.

The Chinese and Japanese will soon dominate world technology again.

Are you sure you are Turkish and not some nut from Skadi?:confused:

[ficuscarica]

The Chinese and Japanese will soon dominate world technology again.

Are you sure you are Turkish and not some nut from Skadi?:confused:

The Chinese are light years behind the West, despite stealing inventions all the time and being over 1 bilion people. All they do is copy and mass produce, their modern achievements are zero.

The Japanese are a bit better, but their main economic branches are based on North European achievements, too (computers, electricity, industry).

The world would be pre-industrial like in the Middle Ages/classical times without the North European "Barbarians". That´s just an obvious fact.

[Libertas]

Chinese achievement includes being to be the workshop of the world so young, "superior" North Europeans can only get fulfilling jobs in call centres or working for Costa Coffee.

[Anglojew]

You guys are getting into a north south Euro argument but both groups are an amalgam of barbarian and Greco-roman Judeo-Christian culture all founded by Slav (Balkins, Eastern Europe) or Germanic (Spain, France, Italy etc) after the fall of Rome. I'm saying this civilization is barbaric in nature compared to a previous more utopian one because this present culture developed largely in the frozen north.

The same applies to the new southern Islamic cultures of North Africa, Persia and the Near East which is a barbarian rendition of the previously more civilized culture.

[ficuscarica]

Instead of going to the cinema the Romans were mainly entertained by people being torn apart by animals. For ancient Greeks it was normal to buttfuck boys.
Ancient civilzations of southerners viewed agressive wars, that are now considered as war crimes, as heroic.

So how exactly is the Germanic world barbaric compared to that?

[Virtuous]

We should stop arguing about who's the barbarian and who's the superior one, as finbars said all technology has been imitated/re-discovered/continued by previous civilizations, it doesn't matter who was the barbarian because "we all" have been barbarians at one point in time. Civilizations have fallen because of natural disasters or because of carelessness. The Western world is facing a crisis that might throw us back to the days of sticks and stones. I think the major issue to discuss about is to NOT make the mistake of previous civilizations.

[Libertas]

Instead of going to the cinema the Romans were mainly entertained by people being torn apart by animals. For ancient Greeks it was normal to buttfuck boys.
Ancient civilzations of southerners viewed agressive wars, that are now considered as war crimes, as heroic.

So how exactly is the Germanic world barbaric compared to that?

So, cruelty was never part of the old Germanic world view.:picard2:

Are you serious?

North Europe/North America's time is passing and the future belongs to the Asiatic giants, China and India and Japan/Korea will come to dominate technology too.

[Peyrol]

You guys are getting into a north south Euro argument but both groups are an amalgam of barbarian and Greco-roman Judeo-Christian culture all founded by Slav (Balkins, Eastern Europe) or Germanic (Spain, France, Italy etc) after the fall of Rome. I'm saying this civilization is barbaric in nature compared to a previous more utopian one because this present culture developed largely in the frozen north.

The same applies to the new southern Islamic cultures of North Africa, Persia and the Near East which is a barbarian rendition of the previously more civilized culture.

Spain, France and Italy aren't germanic countries.

[ficuscarica]

So, cruelty was never part of the old Germanic world view.:picard2:

Are you serious?

North Europe/North America's time is passing and the future belongs to the Asiatic giants, China and India and Japan/Korea will come to dominate technology too.

Where exactly did I say that? Are you serious?

I just said that the modern, Germanic based world is not only light years ahead in terms of technology, but also much more civilized than the older southern civilizations, which buttfucked boys, kept milions of slaves and were entertained by humans slaughtering each other or being slaughtered by animals.
This was an answer to Anglo-Jews theory of Northern Barbarians.

China and India area only big. Apart from that they are utter shitholes compared to Germany, Austria or Switzerland. Korea and Japan only reached a level kind of similar to the Germanic states because they have Germanic technology.

[Virtuous]

Instead of going to the cinema the Romans were mainly entertained by people being torn apart by animals. For ancient Greeks it was normal to buttfuck boys.
Ancient civilzations of southerners viewed agressive wars, that are now considered as war crimes, as heroic.

So how exactly is the Germanic world barbaric compared to that?

I don't know, shit like raping, pillages, human sacrifices, plunder, dancing round the fire was more entertaining perhaps?

All this is irrelevant.

[Anglojew]

Spain, France and Italy aren't germanic countries.

They were founded in their modern forms by Visigoths, Franks and Lombards all Germanic tribes.

[Libertas]

The historical corruption in Italy, at least originally, sprang from the fact that the upper classes were mainly descended from Germanic barbarians who treated the more indigenous lower classes with cruelty and contempt.

For the humble artisan or peasant it was a case of... do anything to survive or go under.

[Peyrol]

They were founded in their modern forms by Visigoths, Franks and Lombards all Germanic tribes.

Modern Italy was founded 151 years ago by Maison Savoie, a piemonteis dynasty of bourgognon and alsacian heritage.

[ficuscarica]

I don't know, shit like raping, pillages, human sacrifices, plunder, dancing round the fire was more entertaining perhaps?

All this is irrelevant.

I was referring to the statement that the modern, Germanic based world is "barbaric in nature", which is obviously nonsense, because most other, non Germanic based, worlds were more barbaric.

[Accountant]

Are you sure you are Turkish and not some nut from Skadi?:confused:

:D :D

On topic: Civilization makes people weak. Christians outnumbered Scandinavians by huge amount and it still took them centuries to defeat these Nordic "barbarians". Rome was a cesspool of filth filled with lazy people drinking wine while slaves slowly increased in numbers and voilà: Weak, soft civilization was demolished. Same thing happened in Haiti and Africa, but their African anarchism and despotism isn't any better than than weak civilization.

I don't understand why people glorify old civilizations such as ancient Greece or Rome. They were superior because they built good looking monuments and talked more bullshit than the rest of the world?

[Sultan Suleiman]

Yes, it could be argued Saxons and their Viking cousins are the only real CIVILISATION in the last 1000 years having produced he English, Norman, German, Russian, Italian (Lombard), French (Frank), Spanish (Visigoth) cultures but based upon an earlier classical model.

How does it feel to know that your people have practically ended all of these cultures?

[Anglojew]

Technology doesn't a CIVILISATION make, it just helps to win battles. That's exactly the point. These barbarian groups attained control of the world not through ideas but through force of arms.

[Libertas]

Modern Italy was founded 151 years ago by Maison Savoie, a piemonteis dynasty of bourgognon and alsacian heritage.

Don't forget the humble sailor and adventurer Giuseppe Garibaldi.

[Anglojew]

How does it feel to know that your people have practically ended all of these cultures?

You're a historical mistake.

[Sarmatian]

Some people are insane. Ask them a philosophical question and they turned it into arguing of kind 'Ma Northern dick is bigga dan yr Southern, youmad nigga?' :picard1:

Regarding original question.

The so-called CIVILIZATION was indeed established by Southerners. I think the main reason it was derailed is that it's an alien philosophy for Northern people. They have had their own perception of the world and didn't really needed any guidance in it.

The Northerners were indeed called barbarians by Southerners. But it doesn't mean they had no civilization. It was their own culture. I think all Indo-European and Indo-Iranian people had somewhat related concept of our world, existence, being that originated in legendary Hyperborea ;)

[ficuscarica]

Technology doesn't a CIVILISATION make, it just helps to win battles. That's exactly the point. These barbarian groups attained control of the world not through ideas but through force of arms.

They have developed ethics far better than those of their "non barbarian" counter parts in the "southern history". The Germanic based west unlike these civilizations doesn´t kill people for entertainment and doesn´t keep slaves or faps off at attacking other peoples and calling themselves heroes because of it.

[Sultan Suleiman]

You're a historical mistake.

We made that mistake long time ago when we let your kind into our continent.

[Sultan Suleiman]

They have developed ethics far better than those of their "non barbarian" counter parts in the "southern history". The Germanic based west unlike these civilizations doesn´t kill people for entertainment and doesn´t keep slaves or faps off at attacking other peoples and calling themselves heroes because of it.

Actually you did every single thing in that list, probably better and more efficient than all the civilizations which came before.

[Libertas]

:D :D

On topic: Civilization makes people weak. Christians outnumbered Scandinavians by huge amount and it still took them centuries to defeat these Nordic "barbarians". Rome was a cesspool of filth filled with lazy people drinking wine while slaves slowly increased in numbers and voilà: Weak, soft civilization was demolished. Same thing happened in Haiti and Africa, but their African anarchism and despotism isn't any better than than weak civilization.

I don't understand why people glorify old civilizations such as ancient Greece or Rome. They were superior because they built good looking monuments and talked more bullshit than the rest of the world?

I'm sure your hero Hess and Hitler his gang boss would have produced a society of lazy Nazis drinking beer and living off Slavic and Jewish slaves.:rolleyes:

[kabeiros]

The whole thread is about two Jews who are trying to create animosity between northern and southern Europeans :cool:

[Sarmatian]

Technology doesn't a CIVILISATION make, it just helps to win battles. That's exactly the point. These barbarian groups attained control of the world not through ideas but through force of arms.

Arms are always driven by ideas. The problem starts when one stop following his own natural path and start adopting ideas he can't fully comprehend.

[Peyrol]

Don't forget the humble sailor and adventurer Giuseppe Garibaldi.

Who was a nissard, so a piemonteis. :D

BTW, longobards had virtually no influences in deep southern Italy as Calabria, Sicilia and Basilicata, and very few in Campania, Apulia and south-central Italy.
So, calling all the italian peninsula ''Lombardy'' is a bit pretentious.

[Sultan Suleiman]

The whole thread is about two Jews who are trying to create animosity between northern and southern Europeans :cool:

Hebes gonna hebe...

[Libertas]

They have developed ethics far better than those of their "non barbarian" counter parts in the "southern history". The Germanic based west unlike these civilizations doesn´t kill people for entertainment and doesn´t keep slaves or faps off at attacking other peoples and calling themselves heroes because of it.

The Germanic tribes kept plenty of slaves.

Learn your history.

In their primitive tribes work was done by women and slaves while men fought and got drunk.

[ficuscarica]

Actually you did every single thing in that list, probably better and more efficient than all the civilizations which came before.

Actually, Hitler would have been a great hero in the Ottoman or Roman Empire... Imperialism and systematic mass murder was pretty common, you know. We just had better technology, because we are more advanced than any of the Southern barbarians ever were.

Modern human rights, that are against what Roman Empires, Ottoman rulers or Hitler did, however, come from Northern Europe - the Barbarians... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_humanitarian_law

[Virtuous]

:D :D

On topic: Civilization makes people weak. Christians outnumbered Scandinavians by huge amount and it still took them centuries to defeat these Nordic "barbarians". Rome was a cesspool of filth filled with lazy people drinking wine while slaves slowly increased in numbers and voilà: Weak, soft civilization was demolished. Same thing happened in Haiti and Africa, but their African anarchism and despotism isn't any better than than weak civilization.

I don't understand why people glorify old civilizations such as ancient Greece or Rome. They were superior because they built good looking monuments and talked more bullshit than the rest of the world?

Of course one should Glorify the Roman Empire and Ancient Greece, after all they are the founders of modern politics, art, architecture, philosophy and democracy. What you mentioned there is indeed the carelessness that brought every great civilization to decline, it doesn't mean that the Vikings and Germanic people were superior to Rome back in the days. If we do not watch out today's Western world will face the same destiny every other great Empire faced.

[Onur]

So, cruelty was never part of the old Germanic world view.:picard2:

Are you serious?
The so-called barbarity of the Germanic or Hunnic peoples was a Roman lie. Romans themselves was no less "barbarian" than them in that sense but usually even more violent. We learned early medieval history according to Romans, thats why most people thinks as such but it wasn't the truth.

Both Germanics and Huns was also much more advanced than Romans in some areas like science, observation of moon&sun phases, calendars, medicine and military technology. A Celtic calendar was much more advanced than Roman ones. A Hunnic bow and a Germanic sword was much better than Roman ones again. They also had their own runic scripture. While Romans was throwing mentally and physically sick people to feed the lions, the so called Germanic and Hunnic barbarians was treating them with their advanced medicine knowledge. Also women had equal role with men in Germanic and Hunnic society but women was considered as no worthy creature than animals in Roman society.

[Corvus]

:D :D

On topic: Civilization makes people weak. Christians outnumbered Scandinavians by huge amount and it still took them centuries to defeat these Nordic "barbarians". Rome was a cesspool of filth filled with lazy people drinking wine while slaves slowly increased in numbers and voilà: Weak, soft civilization was demolished. Same thing happened in Haiti and Africa, but their African anarchism and despotism isn't any better than than weak civilization.

I don't understand why people glorify old civilizations such as ancient Greece or Rome. They were superior because they built good looking monuments and talked more bullshit than the rest of the world?

The Roman decadence was of enormous scope. They indulged themselves in orgies of such perverse extent which can harldy put into words.
This is the main reason for their fast decline. The Romans are the best example how hedonism can impolode a society from within.

The so called Barbarians on the other hand were disciplined, natural, tough fighters who embodied the Nordish spirit.
It was crystal clear that they would easily conquer the Roman empire almost effortless within short time

[Peyrol]

:D :D

On topic: Civilization makes people weak. Christians outnumbered Scandinavians by huge amount and it still took them centuries to defeat these Nordic "barbarians". Rome was a cesspool of filth filled with lazy people drinking wine while slaves slowly increased in numbers and voilà: Weak, soft civilization was demolished. Same thing happened in Haiti and Africa, but their African anarchism and despotism isn't any better than than weak civilization.

[U][B]I don't understand why people glorify old civilizations such as ancient Greece or Rome. They were superior because they built good looking monuments and talked more bullshit than the rest of the world? [[

Maybe because founded modern West and gived you cities and law while your ancestors were used to live in wooden huts with tribal laws?

[ficuscarica]

The Germanic tribes kept plenty of slaves.

Learn your history.

In their primitive tribes work was done by women and slaves while men fought and got drunk.

Interesting. Has nothing to do with the topic, though. Because the comparison was between the modern Germanic dominated world and previous southern dominated worlds. The north Europeans came up with the human rights, thus putting an end to the barbaric traditions of ancient Romans, Germanics and so forth.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

The Chinese and Japanese will soon dominate world technology again.

Are you sure you are Turkish and not some nut from Skadi?:confused:

He is nuts but not Turkish ..He wears that profile because his "Inner Horse" loves Mongols :p

[Peyrol]

The so-called barbarity of the Germanic or Hunnic peoples was a Roman lie. Romans themselves was no less "barbarian" than them in that sense but usually even more violent. We learned early medieval history according to Romans, thats why most people thinks as such but it wasn't the truth.

Both Germanics and Huns was also much more advanced than Romans in some areas like science, observation of moon&sun phases, calendars, medicine and military technology.

Bum!

The post of the Year :lol:

[Sarmatian]

Of course one should Glorify the Roman Empire and Ancient Greece, after all they are the founders of modern politics, art, architecture, philosophy and democracy. What you mentioned there is indeed the carelessness that brought every great civilization to decline, it doesn't mean that the Vikings and Germanic people were superior to Rome back in the days. If we do not watch out today's Western world will face the same destiny every other great Empire faced.

Democracy successfully existed separately from Ancient Romans and Greeks.

[ficuscarica]

Bum!

The post of the Year :lol:

Let him argue for his claim if he can.
You know, modern history is shaped by leftists who use the classic civilizations to discredit the "christian" Middle Ages. They had to exalt the Romans and Greeks in order to attack christianity.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Actually, Hitler would have been a great hero in the Ottoman or Roman Empire... Imperialism and systematic mass murder was pretty common, you know. We just had better technology, because we are more advanced than any of the Southern barbarians ever were.

Modern human rights, that are against what Roman Empires, Ottoman rulers or Hitler did, however, come from Northern Europe - the Barbarians... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_humanitarian_law

He would have been to Germans if he had won.

So stop that BS about noble northern barbarians who wouldn't hurt a fly. :rolleyes:

[Virtuous]

Democracy successfully existed separately from Ancient Romans and Greeks.

We all know Democracy originated from Greece.

[ficuscarica]

He would have been to Germans if he had won.

So stop that BS about noble northern barbarians who wouldn't hurt a fly. :rolleyes:

How can I stop doing something when I haven´t been doing it? :confused:
The Northerners were just as violent/barbaric, but finally they came up with the human rights. So it was them, not Romans or Greeks, who put an end to the most vile insanity.

[Peyrol]

Let him argue for his claim if he can.
You know, modern history is shaped by leftists who use the classic civilizations to discredit the "christian" Middle Ages. They had to exalt the Romans and Greeks in order to attack christianity.

Middle Ages are my favourite times because Piemont (and in general Northern Italy) and Occitan World shaped in these times.:D

But a total denigration of Classic Civilization is a bit pretentious, especially from people (Turk & Slavs) whose ancestors lived in Eurasian steppes when Classic Civilizations were in their climax.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Interesting. Has nothing to do with the topic, though. Because the comparison was between the modern Germanic dominated world and previous southern dominated worlds. The north Europeans came up with the human rights, thus putting an end to the barbaric traditions of ancient Romans, Germanics and so forth.

Basis for modern human rights were given to world by the French, Njemci had nothing to do with it. Hell, Njemci for the better part of that period wanted to end the little experiment of "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" which gave birth to all the other HR you keep blabbering about.

[ficuscarica]

We all know Democracy originated from Greece.

With half of the population being slaves without a vote.


Lots of the things "we all know" are wrong history.
Let him proof his point (if he can), I am sure he has a reason for his statement.

[Peyrol]

With half of the population being slaves without a vote.


Lots of the things "we all know" are wrong history.
Let him proof his point (if he can), I am sure he has a reason for his statement.

That's was great, because IMHO one of the problem of modern society is that all the people, even the stupid or moron ones, are allowed to vote. :lol:

[kabeiros]

We learned early medieval history according to Romans, thats why most people thinks as such but it wasn't the truth. Why didn't the Germans and Huns write their own versions of history? Greeks and Jews have been writing their versions since 1000 BC.



Both Germanics and Huns was also much more advanced than Romans in some areas like science, observation of moon&sun phases, calendars, medicine and military technology. :picard1::picard2::picard1::picard2:

[Sultan Suleiman]

Middle Ages are my favourite times because Piemont (and in general Northern Italy) and Occitan World shape in these times.:D

But a total denigration of Classic Civilization is a bit pretentious, especially from people (Turk & Slavs) whose ancestors lived in Eurasian steppes when Classic Civilization were in their climax.

I like the 1380s as well mate :D (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/160/0/8/kingdom_of_bosnia_by_zalezsky-d52vzpt.png)

[Onur]

Bum!

The post of the Year :lol:

Let him argue for his claim if he can.
Did you ever saw what was Celtic calendar or Turkic animal calendar was like comparing with Roman equivalents?

Did you ever see Germanic and Hunnic blacksmith works of iron swords while Romans was still using bronze ones? OR what about Hunnic bows? Did you know that the current military system of 10-100-1000 people squads was created by the Huns?

Did you ever heard the medicine knowledge of Germanic druids and Hunnic shamans?


But i know ignorance is bliss by your side.

[Sultan Suleiman]

How can I stop doing something when I haven´t been doing it? :confused:
The Northerners were just as violent/barbaric, but finally they came up with the human rights. So it was them, not Romans or Greeks, who put an end to the most vile insanity.

Do you see any contradiction here?

[ficuscarica]

Basis for modern human rights were given to world by the French, Njemci had nothing to do with it. Hell, Njemci for the better part of that period wanted to end the little experiment of "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" which gave birth to all the other HR you keep blabbering about.

First of all stop using words like "blabbering", this is not kindergarden.

The French contributed to the development, as did the Americans with their constitution. Anyway, this is about "Northern Barbarians". The French descend from the West Frankish "Barbarian" Empire - from "northern Barbarians" - as did most of the main contributers to modern human rights.

[Virtuous]

With half of the population being slaves without a vote.


Lots of the things "we all know" are wrong history.
Let him proof his point (if he can), I am sure he has a reason for his statement.

So? Slavery even exists today for fucks sake, it's modern-debt slavery, the only thing that has changed is we do not know we are slaves. At least the concept of Democracy originated from Ancient Greece, not from Barbaric tribes.

I mention again, not just democracy, but also politics, art, architecture, philosophy and so on.

[Peyrol]

Did you ever saw what was Celtic calendar or Turkic animal calendar was like comparing with Roman equivalents?

Did you ever see Germanic and Hunnic blacksmith works of iron swords while Romans was still using bronze ones? OR what about Hunnic bows? Did you know that the current military system of 10-100-1000 people squads was created by the Huns?

Did you ever heard the medicine knowledge of Germanic druids and Hunnic shamans?


But i know ignorance is bliss by your side.


Imagine a world without Rome.

Where's medicine? Cities? Streets? Waterworks? Laws? State organization? Hospitals? Philosophy? Modern agricolture?
Or do you think that huns or markmans invented those things?
I can go on for hours.

And a great ''LOL'' with hunnic military superiority...too easy win against a falling and dying empire...in the roman climax those asian shits would have been wiped out after their first attack.

Ok, now i let your with your alternative history fapping. That's why i like the apricity every day more :lol:

[ficuscarica]

So? Slavery even exists today for fucks sake, it's modern-debt slavery, the only thing that has changed is we do not know we are slaves. At least the concept of Democracy originated from Ancient Greece, not from Barbaric tribes.

I mention again, not just democracy, but also politics, art, architecture, philosophy and so on.

Politics can´t origin from anyone, same goes for arts, architecture and philosophy (thinking about life), they are normal parts of human life - like eating and breathing. In some form they exist in every culture everywhere.

The Greek democracy is not bad, but - like all other southern inventions - light years behind modern "Barbarian inventions" (real democracy without 50% slaves...).

[Accountant]

Maybe because founded modern West and gived you cities and law while your ancestors were used to live in wooden huts with tribal laws?

Modern West sucks. Any sane independent individual agrees with me.

I don't like cities at all, but circumstances force many of us to live in them. Hopefully one day human population of planet earth is a million or two and we can return where we belong. Our wooden huts gave us shelter and warmth, all we ever needed. I also dislike many modern laws. We were better off before.


I'm sure your hero Hess and Hitler his gang boss would have produced a society of lazy Nazis drinking beer and living off Slavic and Jewish slaves.:rolleyes:

Your knowledge of 3rd Reich is truly astonishing. :rolleyes: It was one of the very few strong civilizations based on work and not on deceit and racketeering. Sadly they were outnumbered...

I admire Hess for his courage, honor and loyalty. He sacrificed his own life in an attempt to make peace between two European peoples.

[Peyrol]

Now i have to add ''Turks'' in the endless list of ''German wannabee ethnicities''.

[Osprey]

The Chinese and Indians are not usually Protestants and yet they could outwork any westerner, Protestant or not.

What a ridiculous post!
Is he saying protestantism works for every group?
Or are the Protestant group successfull because of their religion?
He is saying that the protestant group of Germany has been more efficient than the Roman Catholic part. (due to a cumulative effect of many factors)

[kabeiros]

Did you ever see Germanic and Hunnic blacksmith works of iron swords while Romans was still using bronze ones? When my ancient Pontic ancestors were using iron swords, Huns and Germans were still fighting with wooden ones. Have you ever heard of the Chalybes?

ps I was wrong, Huns and Germans didn't even exist

[Sultan Suleiman]

The French contributed to the development, as did the Americans with their constitution. Anyway, this is about "Northern Barbarians". The French descend from the West Frankish "Barbarian" Empire - from "northern Barbarians" - as did most of the main contributers to modern human rights.

You can draw those parallels even more, from your common Indo-Euro roots to Garden of Eden for all I care.

My point is that French were a Romance/Latin people when they got those ideas out, and if your "noble and freedom loving" Njemci had their way you would still be having slaves or using serfs while hailing your Kaiser or whatever. :rolleyes:

Njemci HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TODAY'S HUMAN RIGHTS!!!

[ficuscarica]

Imagine a world without Rome.

Where's medicine? Cities? Streets? Waterworks? Laws? State organization? Hospitals? Philosophy? Modern agricolture?
Or do you think that huns or markmans invented those things?
I can go on for hours.

You can go on for hours, but it wouldn´t make it true. All the things you mentioned existed before and independent from Romans (Mesopotamia, Mayas, Azteks, etc) all had these things.

[Siberian Cold Breeze]

Modern West sucks. Any sane independent individual agrees with me.

I don't like cities at all, but circumstances force many of us to live in them. Hopefully one day human population of planet earth is a million or two and we can return where we belong. Our wooden huts gave us shelter and warmth, all we ever needed. I also dislike many modern laws. We were better off before.



second that .

[Sultan Suleiman]

Where's medicine? Cities? Streets? Waterworks? Laws? State organization? Hospitals? Philosophy? Modern agricolture?

TBH all of them would be provided by another civilization nexus (probably from Middle east). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire)

[Peyrol]

You can go on for hours, but it wouldn´t make it true. All the things you mentioned existed before and independent from Romans (Mesopotamia, Mayas, Azteks, etc) all had these things.

Aztecs had roman laws, flowing/fresh water in their home, organized health system, cities like roman ones, political philosophy and bureaucratic organized state, etc etc etc?
Never known this.

[Virtuous]

Politics can´t origin from anyone, same goes for arts, architecture and philosophy (thinking about life), they are normal parts of human life - like eating and breathing. In some form they exist in every culture everywhere.

I might agree with art, because art has many forms, but for the rest you already know my answer.


The Greek democracy is not bad, but - like all other southern inventions - light years behind modern "Barbarian inventions" (real democracy without 50% slaves...).

Like I said, it all comes down to imitating, re-discovering and continuing, from today's Western World to the Romans/Greeks and Eastern Civilizations before them.

Surely though, I do agree that every civilization that has risen and fallen there has been less and less barbaric behaviour. The goal is not to repeat the same mistakes after all.

Now excuse moi, the cat demands that I feed him.

[Sultan Suleiman]

Aztecs had roman laws, flowing/fresh water in their home, organized health system, cities like roman ones, political philosophy and bureaucratic organized state, etc etc etc?


Most Middle eastern civilizations had all or nearly all of the things in your list, from Babylon, to Assyria and Persia.

[ficuscarica]

You can draw those parallels even more, from you common Indo-Euro roots to Garden of Eden.

My point is that French were a Romance/Latin people when they got those ideas out, and if your "noble and freedom loving" Njemci had their way you would still be having slaves or using serfs while hailing your Kaiser or whatever. :rolleyes:

Njemci HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH TODAY'S HUMAN RIGHTS!!!

French have a Romance language, but France - learn some history - is the western Frankish empire, which was predominantly Celto-Germanic with some minor Romance admixture. You know nothing about French history it seems.
The Franks, a Germanic tribe, took over the lead in that country when the Roman Empire collapsed. Why do you think it is called France? The Franks mixed with local Celts and Romans... the genes are pred. Celtic and Frankish.

Again you utterly fail to even grasp the topic of the thread. It isn´t about Germans, but about north European "Barbarians", which includes the French.

And by the way, the Germans did want to follow France´s example, but were fought down by the nobles.


The United States declaration of independence and the French Revolution are the main roots of modern human rights. Both come from people that are mainly descendants of "northern Barbarians".

[Peyrol]

Modern West sucks. Any sane independent individual agrees with me.

I don't like cities at all, but circumstances force many of us to live in them. Hopefully one day human population of planet earth is a million or two and we can return where we belong. Our wooden huts gave us shelter and warmth, all we ever needed. I also dislike many modern laws. We were better off before.





Good, so you want return to living in a wooden hut, with clothes made with bear skin, with no computer, no flowing eater, no furnishings, no cutlery, where you've to stay away 10 hours from your ''house'' to hunt something to eat, with no heating and no hospitals, streets, markets, etc, where your neighbor can kill you for a rabbit and where your life would be long something like 35 years old.
Good.

[Peyrol]

Most Middle eastern civilizations had all or nearly all of the things in your list, from Babylon, to Assyria and Persia.

No one of ancient mideastern civilization had roman law (which is the base for all western world) or roman bureaucratic organization of the state, no-one of mideastern civilization realized cities like roman ones (wich are the bases for all modern western cities, and not only western), no-one of the mideastern civilization had street and waterworks realized for last 2000 years and still functioning, no-one of mideastern civilization had greco-roma political phylosophy.

[Peyrol]

French have a Romance language, but France - learn some history - is the western Frankish empire, which was predominantly Celto-Germanic with some minor Romance admixture. You know nothing about French history it seems.
The Franks, a Germanic tribe, took over the lead in that country when the Roman Empire collapsed. Why do you think it is called France? The Franks mixed with local Celts and Romans... the genes are pred. Celtic and Frankish.

Again you utterly fail to even grasp the topic of the thread. It isn´t about Germans, but about north European "Barbarians", which includes the French.

And by the way, the Germans did want to follow France´s example, but were fought down by the nobles.


The United States declaration of independence and the French Revolution are the main roots of modern human rights. Both come from people that are mainly descendants of "northern Barbarians".

Lol @ France as ''germanic nation''.

French language and culture is worldwide considered ''gallo-romance'', as northern italian, occitan and catalan ones.

[Osprey]

The historical corruption in Italy, at least originally, sprang from the fact that the upper classes were mainly descended from Germanic barbarians who treated the more indigenous lower classes with cruelty and contempt.

For the humble artisan or peasant it was a case of... do anything to survive or go under.

And that was because Roman men preferred blond slaves to Roman women.

[ficuscarica]

I might agree with art, because art has many forms, but for the rest you already know my answer.



Like I said, it all comes down to imitating, re-discovering and continuing, from today's Western World to the Romans/Greeks and Eastern Civilizations before them.

Surely though, I do agree that every civilization that has risen and fallen there has been less and less barbaric behaviour. The goal is not to repeat the same mistakes after all.

Now excuse moi, the cat demands that I feed him.

Every seen Mayan, Aztec, Babylon or Egyptian architecture. Saying the Greeks invented architecture is as far from the truth as it can be. Thinking about life (philosophy) isn´t a Greek achievement, either (even claiming that it is is really total nonsense), you will find many interesting, thoughtful documents much older than Greek philosophy. Politics? Politic means governing and administrating your state. Do you think Greeks were the first to do that? ;)

Everyone has built on the thoughts of others. What I am saying is that the "Northern Barbarians" have achieved much more than any Southerner who is stupid enough to call as Barbarian.

[Peyrol]

And that was because Roman men preferred blond slaves to Roman women.

Actually 3/5 of the slaves were greeks.
Just read Tacitus where greek are described as ''the ultimate kind of slave''.

[Virtuous]

Good, so you want return to living in a wooden hut, with clothes made with bear skin, with no computer, no flowing eater, no furnishings, no cutlery, where you've to stay away 10 hours from your ''house'' to hunt something to eat, with no heating and no hospitals, streets, markets, etc, where your neighbor can kill you for a rabbit and where your life would be long something like 35 years old.
Good.

Heheh, in a way I agree with him you know :D, we've made so many technological advancements but in other aspects such as socially we're utter crap.

We live in a chaotic and hectic society which is always trying to find new ways to reduce communication and co-operation, lots of talk and less doing, good values such as honour, kindness and respect are being lost and many more to mention. We the people are becoming nothing else but a consuming-working machine.

[Sultan Suleiman]

French have a Romance language, but France - learn some history - is the western Frankish empire, which was predominantly Celto-Germanic with some minor Romance admixture. You know nothing about French history it seems.
The Franks, a Germanic tribe, took over the lead in that country when the Roman Empire collapsed. Why do you think it is called France? The Franks mixed with local Celts and Romans... the genes are pred. Celtic and Frankish.


Offcourse I know

Buddy most of the genes of Balkanian Slavs come from natives, but you don't see any of them identifying with Illyrians.

Or better yet thanks to Gothic, Saxon migrations to Bosnia and the Central European slave trade during the Ottoman empire anywhere from 10-15% of modern Bosniaks are descendants of them, but non of them identities with anything Germanic. They are for all tents and purposes Slavs because they were influenced by Slavic meta culture for centuries, the same way how French have culturally more in common with Italians and Spaniards than Germans (Latin meta culture/ethnicity).

Meaning that what sparked the "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" crowd wasn't something hardcoded into Njemački DNA, it was the old ideas of Roman Republic (to which they were culturally related) and they just improved on the ideas of it.

While at the same time, cultural and ethnic Germans were doing everything in their power to stamp out what you call "Germanic invention".

[Peyrol]

BTW, i can understand these discussion by germanic members like Ficus, but turks or slavs who talk about those things...LOL. :lol:

And btw, ''barbarian'' mean only ''people who speak latin or greek with strange accent'', no more.
I don't know why people go mad when they read this world...it's only a linguistical term, in reality, not necessarily a ethnic slurs (especially now...c'mon people, we're in the XXI century, not in the Persian Wars..)

[Virtuous]

Calm your tits, people. Relax and enjoy the music.

I_izvAbhExY

[ficuscarica]

Lol @ France as ''germanic nation''.

French language and culture is worldwide considered ''gallo-romance'', as northern italian, occitan and catalan ones.

Basic academic skill: Reading comprehension. I said the genes are mainly Celtic and Frankish. Read it up. All I said about them being "Germanic" is that France comes from the West Frankish Empire. Want to debate that? Good luck!

France is mainly formed by "Northern Barbarians" (Celts and Franks), like it or not. The Franks mixed with northern Celts that had some Roman admixture, but were mainly northern Celts.
Then they simple took over Romance Language and Christianity.


The Franks embraced the Christian Gallo-Roman heritage and ancient Gaul was eventually renamed Francia ("Land of the Franks"). The Germanic Franks adopted Romanic languages, except in northern Gaul where Roman settlements were less dense and where Germanic languages emerged
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_people

Anyway, "Germanic Barbarians" in America had human rights before the French revolution.

[Peyrol]

Offcourse I know

Buddy most of the genes of Balkanian Slavs come from natives, but you don't see any of them identifying with Illyrians.

Or better yet thanks to Gothic, Saxon migrations to Bosnia and the Central European slave trade during the Ottoman empire anywhere from 10-15% of modern Bosniaks are descendants of them, but non of them identities with anything Germanic. They are for all tents and purposes Slavs because they were influenced by Slavic meta culture for centuries, the same way how French have culturally more in common with Italians and Spaniards than Germans (Latin meta culture/ethnicity).

Meaning that what sparked the "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" crowd wasn't something hardcoded into Njemački DNA, it was the old ideas of Roman Republic (to which they were culturally related) and they just improved on the ideas of it.

While at the same time, cultural and ethnic Germans were doing everything in their power to stamp out what you call "Germanic invention".


Following your arguments, then Piemont is germanic because first piemonteis state was founded by a bunch of bourgognons and alsacian colonists commanded by a burgundian dynasty (Maison Savoie) and Lombardy is germanic because was founded by longobards? :lol:

C'mon people...don't be germanic wannabe, accept you for what you are in reality.

[kabeiros]

And btw, ''barbarian'' mean only ''people who speak latin or greek with strange accent'', no more.
I don't know why people go mad when they read this world...it's only a linguistical term, in reality, not necessarily a ethnic slurs Yes, Greeks called barbarians those who couldn't speak Greek properly. To the Greek ears their language was something like bar-bar

[Peyrol]

Following your argument, then also Piemont and Lombardy are ''basically germanic regions'' (as i wrote before)?


Following your arguments, then Piemont is germanic because first piemonteis state was founded by a bunch of bourgognons and alsacian colonists commanded by a burgundian dynasty (Maison Savoie) and Lombardy is germanic because was founded by longobards? :lol:




Basic academic skill: Reading comprehension. I said the genes are mainly Celtic and Frankish. Read it up. All I said about them being "Germanic" is that France comes from the West Frankish Empire. Want to debate that? Good luck!

France is mainly formed by "Northern Barbarians" (Celts and Franks), like it or not. The Franks mixed with northern Celts that had some Roman admixture, but were mainly northern Celts.
Then they simple took over Romance Language and Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_people

Anyway, "Germanic Barbarians" in America had human rights before the French revolution.

[ficuscarica]

While at the same time, cultural and ethnic Germans were doing everything in their power to stamp out what you call "Germanic invention".

The Germans wanted it, too. But were fought down by the nobility.
Baden and Palatinate, my home region, were core regions of those movements, but couldn´t prevail.

Anyway, the Americans declared human rights before the French, and - unlike the French - they were not only "northern barbarians" in genetics, but also in their cultural identification.

[Peyrol]

Yes, Greeks called barbarians those who couldn't speak Greek properly. To the Greek ears their language was something like bar-bar

That's the point.

Here was used, in ancient times, to describe non-latin and non-koinè speakers;
only during middle age revisionism of antiquity assumed a negative terms.

[Sultan Suleiman]

No one of ancient mideastern civilization had roman law (which is the base for all western world) or roman bureaucratic organization of the state,

Persians had a more efficient form of government which was more lasting than Roman (basically it continued trough till the early 20th century trough the Ottoman empire), while the Roman slave based economy and state organization only sustained by large conquests was the downfall of them after they ran out of easy pushover nations.


no-one of mideastern civilization realized cities like roman ones (wich are the bases for all modern western cities, and not only western), no-one of the mideastern civilization had street and waterworks realized for last 2000 years and still functioning,

That is a false claim, Babylon was block based city, with designated areas of industry, commerce, housing and public spaces. With "middle class" having all the benefits of "Roman culture" several centuries before Rome's establishment.



no-one of mideastern civilization had greco-roma political phylosophy.

No they had their Middle Eastern philosophy which gave birth to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_Cylinder) and ideas of decentralization of the state trough more autonomy the "subjugated" peoples which ensured more loyal and firm empires.

They even had their form of democracy with election of Trade Princes of the coastal cities in Palestine, Lebanon and Syria with Tyr being prime example.

What we are saying is that we are glad that we had an early native European civilization which gave birth to our current civilization more or less, but that it was not irreplaceable as you claim. :thumb001:

[Jackson]

:D :D

On topic: Civilization makes people weak. Christians outnumbered Scandinavians by huge amount and it still took them centuries to defeat these Nordic "barbarians". Rome was a cesspool of filth filled with lazy people drinking wine while slaves slowly increased in numbers and voilà: Weak, soft civilization was demolished. Same thing happened in Haiti and Africa, but their African anarchism and despotism isn't any better than than weak civilization.

I don't understand why people glorify old civilizations such as ancient Greece or Rome. They were superior because they built good looking monuments and talked more bullshit than the rest of the world?

Sounds familiar...

[ficuscarica]

Following your argument, then also Piemont and Lombardy are ''basically germanic regions'' (as i wrote before)?

The French gene pool is mostly Germanic and Celtic, with little Romance admixture. I admit that they had adopted the Romance heritage, but still, modern human rights came before the French - with the truly "barbarian" Americans.

[Accountant]

Good, so you want return to living in a wooden hut, with clothes made with bear skin, with no computer, no flowing eater, no furnishings, no cutlery, where you've to stay away 10 hours from your ''house'' to hunt something to eat, with no heating and no hospitals, streets, markets, etc, where your neighbor can kill you for a rabbit and where your life would be long something like 35 years old.
Good.

This is what Europeans or at least Northern Europeans are built for.

Just because Northern Europeans lived simple lives doesn't mean they killed each other for food. Quite the opposite actually. Oh, and all the Greco-Roman computers and hospitals, how could I have forgotten! Primitive barbarians couldn't even use fire for heating. And no markets means no trading, right?

[Peyrol]

Sounds familiar...


:D

1MxwMUd9P7A

[Peyrol]

This is what Europeans or at least Northern Europeans are built for.



Are you really sure of this?

[Sultan Suleiman]

Anyway, the Americans declared human rights before the French, and - unlike the French - they were not only "northern barbarians" in genetics, but also in their cultural identification.

They used a LATIN form of government, basically old ideas made a new after a touch of red, white and blue :D

If they went with a Germanic model of government this would probably happen.

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/article/122/1226278/KingGeorge_1349287099.jpg

There is nothing Germanic about Republicanism :cool:

[Accountant]

Are you really sure of this?

We weren't civilized for tens of thousands of years. Still we somehow survived, so yes I'm sure.

[ficuscarica]

The American declaration of human rights is based on Christianity, not on Germanic or Roman tradition. But it was made by Germano-Celtic "Barbarians".

[Sultan Suleiman]

The French gene pool is mostly Germanic and Celtic, with little Romance admixture. I admit that they had adopted the Romance heritage, but still, modern human rights came before the French - with the truly "barbarian" Americans.

American re introduced republicanism as a viable for of government (Latin/Romance form of government) but it still had slavery and only white men could vote. The human rights came with the French and they were born out of Romance thought :thumb001:

Human rights=/=Republicanism

[ficuscarica]

American re introduced republicanism as a viable for of government, the human rights came with the French and they were born out of Romance thought :thumb001:
The American declaration of indepence came before the French revolution and it speaks about human rights given by the creator (for them obviously the christian god). It came out of "Barbarian" Christianity.

[Peyrol]

We weren't civilized for tens of thousands of years. Still we somehow survived, so yes I'm sure.

Not really: Svears founded their kingdom when roman empire was still vigorous. Probabily they were one of the first germanic population to abandon nomadism and sussistence.


The American declaration of human rights is based on Christianity, not on Germanic or Roman tradition. But it was made by Germano-Celtic "Barbarians".

...but american statal and bureaurocratical structure, and also the army structure is very roman, same for the city urbanistic.

The real point of the discussion is that actually all the major european contries had both romance an germanic influences. ''Pure nations'' of both ''sides'' don't exist anymore since 476 A.D.

[Balmung]

lol "Barbarians" as if the Ancient Romans were not.

They ate rats, pissed everywhere, and sat their food next to places where people shit at. Rome would have looked like a 3rd world country today.

Ancient world this, Ancient world that.

Todays countries contributed more in a short time than they did in their entire existence. Reminiscing about the "Old world" is for people who live in countries, that have been somewhat stagnant today, and need a reason to justify it, lame.

[Accountant]

Not really: Svears founded their kingdom when roman empire was still vigorous. Probabily they were one of the first germanic population to abandon nomadism and sussistence.


I meant Europeans were living simple hunter-gatherer lives for tens of thousands of years. This civilized period hasn't been going on for long.

[Sultan Suleiman]

The American declaration of indepence came before the French revolution

Yes it did.


and it speaks about human rights given by the creator (for them obviously the christian god). It came out of "Barbarian" Christianity.

Most of Founding Fathers Deists or had no religious affinity and have intentionally avoided using any references to Christian mythology.

TBH it had more in common with the First Caliphate than any Christian nation at that point, because the only major (even tough theocratic) republic to exist in time period between Roman Republic and American one was the original Islamic state with Medina Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina) combined with Qur'an as the guiding principle. All free Muslim men (and rich landowning women) had right to vote for their next leader (for unspecified time) and yes, I know for Durbovačka and Venetian "republics" but if we are adding them as true proto republics then we can add Medieval and Ottoman Bosnia to the list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Stanak_(Medieval_Bosnian_parliament)) :rolleyes:

If I had to draw historical parallels early American Republic had more in common with original Islamic civilization than anything Christian world had produced till that point.

[ficuscarica]

Yes it did.



Most of Founding Fathers Deists or had no religious affinity and have intentionally avoided using any references to Christian mythology.

If I had to draw historical parallels early American Republic had more in common with original Islamic civilization than anything Christian world had produced till that point.

BRAHAHAHA! I already thought about asking you whether you think they referred to Allah. LMAO. Even if they were deists they were obviously christian orientied diests.


ReligionLambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Of the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention, 49 were Protestants, and two were Roman Catholics (D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons). Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (or Episcopalian, after the American Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

A few prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical Christians, such as Thomas Jefferson[18][19][20] (who created the so-called "Jefferson Bible") and Benjamin Franklin.[21] Others (most notably Thomas Paine) were deists, or at least held beliefs very similar to those of deists.[22]

Historian Gregg L. Frazer argues that the leading Founders (Adams, Jefferson, Franklin, Wilson, Morris, Madison, Hamilton, and Washington) were neither Christians nor Deists, but rather supporters of a hybrid "theistic rationalism".[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States#Religion

Allah gave human rights. LOL! This is satire man.

[Sultan Suleiman]

BRAHAHAHA! I already thought about asking you whether you think they referred to Allah. LMAO. Even if they were deists they were obviously christian orientied diests.

Find me one pro-Republic document which has it's theological basis in Christianity as does Medina Constitution has in Islam.


I said if I had to draw historical parallels.

[ficuscarica]

49 of 55 were Protestants and they said that the human rights come from the creator. Question for bonus credits: Who do you think they were referring to?

[Jackson]

Imagine a world without Rome.

Where's medicine? Cities? Streets? Waterworks? Laws? State organization? Hospitals? Philosophy? Modern agricolture?
Or do you think that huns or markmans invented those things?
I can go on for hours.

And a great ''LOL'' with hunnic military superiority...too easy win against a falling and dying empire...in the roman climax those asian shits would have been wiped out after their first attack.

Ok, now i let your with your alternative history fapping. That's why i like the apricity every day more :lol:

ExWfh6sGyso

[Sultan Suleiman]

Allah gave human rights. LOL! This is satire man.

Read the Medina Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina) you goy.

Draw the parallels there with the American Bill of Rights and Deceleration of Independence. Medina Constitution comes from the time of birth of Islam, while BoR and DoI come when the West shed of the chains of Christianity and during the peak of secular enlightenment.

I agree that the term Novus ordo seclorum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novus_ordo_seclorum) was inspired by Christianity, but not for the same reasons as you do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)). :thumb001:

And in Islam God has given us our rights from which we should never give up freely.

[Gaijin]

Of course.

We could argue that the only reason the North became a cult and prosperous geographical area, was a due to the mighty Southern Europeans who moved up North, to teach the savage Nords on how to evolve.

This could be explained, considering that the Nordics themselves, never did anything grand or worthy of recognition, to be entitled of "Master Race", until post WW2.

Since the beginning of mankind, the Southern Europeans have been creating, innovating and giving to the world, what is known and enjoyed, today.
Thus, this should not only serve as a badge for respect, but for admiration.

Hence, the builders of great civilizations,
Founders of large Empires,
Artists of recognizable science,
Doctors of progressing medicine,
Philosophers and thinkers of logic,
And Cultivators of prosperity.

In another words...the masters of constant evolution, flourishing all this and more.

When the Southern Europeans were pushing themselves to a higher level, the wild Nordics were pillaging the South in conquest of the empires made by the Southerners... in hopes to empower their lack of success.

The Inferior will always try to overthrow the Superior.

In semantics...The Nordics were no different, but in fact, equally inferior to the African immigrants of today, who are destroying modern day Europe.

What can I say?
Europe has been marked by so many chapters during it's evolution, since the Paleolithic to the modern days of today, that it would be an offense to list everything made by the Southerners...
It would indeed take a lifetime span to list everything accomplished by the Southerners.

Here are just a few vital chapters in European history, achieved by Southerners, often envied and claimed by Nordicists.

- "The Cradle of Democracy"
- "The Roman Empire"
- "The Age of Discoveries"
- "Colonialism"
- "Globalization"
- "The Renaissance"
- "The Golden Age"
- "Romanticism"
...and the list goes on.

Yet, all those magnificent empires collapsed, due to one single cause...
The Nordic cause.
But, we'd be insulting if we made such statement in front of the mighty Nordics.

An example of this would be of course on how "The Roman Empire" fell, as stated before...
With one simple onrush..."The Sack of Rome".
In consequence to this case, Illiteracy arose and Poverty took it's place, when the Germanics ran away with prosperity.

The same thing could be said about numerous other remarkable events, overturned by the Nordics...destructional factors as these made by the bestial...*cough*...celestial Nords, in parallel to the Africans. Which in my opinion, it's quite identical.

If we examined the success made by the Nordics, based on Empires...such as:

-"The 3rd Reich"

We would come to conclude that achievements as such, were only accomplished under wild and in-cult conducts based on mass murderer.

Whereas everything else, is just plain product of mimicry.

"The Third Reich" itself was a copy of the "Roman Empire", Hitler couldn't base his empire in Nordic ideals nor promote it as such, based on Nordic savagery or history, which is why he borrowed the ducts of Southern Europeans, such as Roman emperors and the discipline of Roman soldiers.

The greatest artistic projection made by the Mediterranean branch was perhaps "Mona Lisa".
For as much as the Nordic one, was "The Blood Eagle".

The Nordicists have their own dreams of grandeur, in which they place themselves in the leading role, as if they were some kind of heroes, superior and above to anyone else.
Not because they are, but because they had their egos talking to loud through mass advertisement, such as Jewish hollywood.

Anyone with a clear cut sense of history, knows that both Nordics showed the same patterns of inferiority, as Africans show.
They haven't accomplished anything worth of recognition, through history, to be highlighted as superiors.

Since, both Nordics and Africans have had the same intellectual mindset of bestial practices...until contact was made with the Southern Europeans.

Which is why, the Southern Europeans themselves, have all the Archaeological and Historical back up to bolster the entitlement of "Master Race"...

The Nordics on the other hand, do not...
All Nordicists have is fantasy, just like the Afrocentrists... which is why, both Nordicists and Afrocentrists fixate their eyes on the history of Southern Europeans, with the the audacity to preposterously claim history, just to complete the lack of achievements made in Scandinavia or Africa.

The master race lays in Southern Europe.
The true people, whom have accomplished the basis known to the world today.

Aristotle himself said that both the fair Nordics and dark Africans were inferior, in comparison to the average tanned Greek.

[Smaug]

One funny thing is that in Portuguese, the word for "barbarian" is bárbaro, but bárbaro also means "fantastic", so if I say something is "barbarian", I'm basically saying it is awesome.

[Jackson]

When the Southern Europeans were pushing themselves to a higher level, the wild Nordics were pillaging the South in conquest of the empires made by the Southerners... in hopes to empower their lack of success.



Why not wait for someone else to make the civilisation for you, and then take it? :D

[ficuscarica]

Of course.

We could argue that the only reason the North became a cult and prosperous geographical area, was a due to the mighty Southern Europeans who moved up North, to teach the savage Nords on how to evolve.

This could be explained, considering that the Nordics themselves, never did anything grand or worthy of recognition, to be entitled of "Master Race", until post WW2.

Since the beginning of mankind, the Southern Europeans have been creating, innovating and giving to the world, what is known and enjoyed, today.
Thus, this should not only serve as a badge for respect, but for admiration.

Hence, the builders of great civilizations,
Founders of large Empires,
Artists of recognizable science,
Doctors of progressing medicine,
Philosophers and thinkers of logic,
And Cultivators of prosperity.

In another words...the masters of constant evolution, flourishing all this and more.

When the Southern Europeans were pushing themselves to a higher level, the wild Nordics were pillaging the South in conquest of the empires made by the Southerners... in hopes to empower their lack of success.

The Inferior will always try to overthrow the Superior.

In semantics...The Nordics were no different, but in fact, equally inferior to the African immigrants of today, who are destroying modern day Europe.

What can I say?
Europe has been marked by so many chapters during it's evolution, since the Paleolithic to the modern days of today, that it would be an offense to list everything made by the Southerners...
It would indeed take a lifetime span to list everything accomplished by the Southerners.

Here are just a few vital chapters in European history, achieved by Southerners, often envied and claimed by Nordicists.

- "The Cradle of Democracy"
- "The Roman Empire"
- "The Age of Discoveries"
- "Colonialism"
- "Globalization"
- "The Renaissance"
- "The Golden Age"
- "Romanticism"
...and the list goes on.

Yet, all those magnificent empires collapsed, due to one single cause...
The Nordic cause.
But, we'd be insulting if we made such statement in front of the mighty Nordics.

An example of this would be of course on how "The Roman Empire" fell, as stated before...
With one simple onrush..."The Sack of Rome".
In consequence to this case, Illiteracy arose and Poverty took it's place, when the Germanics ran away with prosperity.

The same thing could be said about numerous other remarkable events, overturned by the Nordics...destructional factors as these made by the bestial...*cough*...celestial Nords, in parallel to the Africans. Which in my opinion, it's quite identical.

If we examined the success made by the Nordics, based on Empires...such as:

-"The 3rd Reich"

We would come to conclude that achievements as such, were only accomplished under wild and in-cult conducts based on mass murderer.

Whereas everything else, is just plain product of mimicry.

"The Third Reich" itself was a copy of the "Roman Empire", Hitler couldn't base his empire in Nordic ideals nor promote it as such, based on Nordic savagery or history, which is why he borrowed the ducts of Southern Europeans, such as Roman emperors and the discipline of Roman soldiers.

The greatest artistic projection made by the Mediterranean branch was perhaps "Mona Lisa".
For as much as the Nordic one, was "The Blood Eagle".

The Nordicists have their own dreams of grandeur, in which they place themselves in the leading role, as if they were some kind of heroes, superior and above to anyone else.
Not because they are, but because they had their egos talking to loud through mass advertisement, such as Jewish hollywood.

Anyone with a clear cut sense of history, knows that both Nordics showed the same patterns of inferiority, as Africans show.
They haven't accomplished anything worth of recognition, through history, to be highlighted as superiors.

Since, both Nordics and Africans have had the same intellectual mindset of bestial practices...until contact was made with the Southern Europeans.

Which is why, the Southern Europeans themselves, have all the Archaeological and Historical back up to bolster the entitlement of "Master Race"...

The Nordics on the other hand, do not...
All Nordicists have is fantasy, just like the Afrocentrists... which is why, both Nordicists and Afrocentrists fixate their eyes on the history of Southern Europeans, with the the audacity to preposterously claim history, just to complete the lack of achievements made in Scandinavia or Africa.

The master race lays in Southern Europe.
The true people, whom have accomplished the basis known to the world today.

Aristotle himself said that both the fair Nordics and dark Africans were inferior, in comparison to the average tanned Greek.

Nice trolling. Too bad that the superior Southerners, at the pitch of their development, were gypsie state compared to 20th century Germany, England, Austria or Switzerland, who gave you cars, electricity, computers, industry - modern life in general - to save you from sitting around fires and riding on donkey cars and using aquaeducts.
The best Barbarian achievements are so infinitely superior to the best Mediterranean achievements. If both had to use their technology in a war, Southerners would be wiped out in hours.
Roman cavalry vs jet planes. LOL!

[Peyrol]

Well, at least this isn't the umpteenth thread about Inquiring Mind. :D

[Vesuvian Sky]

Man, I dunno what y'all is talkin' bout, hatin' on these mighty 'Nords' who wore kickass fuzzy barbarian boots back in the day, clearly greatest Nord achievement = ug boots....

Long live sacred Germany!

;)

[Balmung]

Since the beginning of mankind, the Southern Europeans have been creating, innovating and giving to the world, what is known and enjoyed, today.

Oh yeah why they stop? Since 1400 Italy and the rest of the south have been behind both Germany & Britain in terms of acomplishment. The only Latin nation that was competing head to head with the two was France. You should reword your post, much of what is enjoyed today is British & German in origin.



The Inferior will always try to overthrow the Superior.

Except Nordics had nothing to do with the fall of Rome. Last i checked Germany is not included in the "Nordic countries".


that it would be an offense to list everything made by the Southerners...
It would indeed take a lifetime span to list everything accomplished by the Southerners.

Your list would pale in comparison to any list of Germany & British inventions by themselves.



The Cradle of Democracy
How is Greece looking today?


The Roman Empire

And yet which empire was the most successful?


The Age of Discoveries

Many of the inventions in that period came from Germans & Brits


Colonialism

We all know who holds the colonialism trophy.


Globalization

Southerners started The Industrial Revolution?



Whereas everything else, is just plain product of mimicry.

Complete & utter bullshit

Please explain to me how Computers, Telephones, Satelites, Radars and the like go back to Rome & the southerners? they do not.


The greatest artistic projection made by the Mediterranean branch was perhaps "Mona Lisa".
For as much as the Nordic one, was "The Blood Eagle".

Why not list who the greatest composer of all time is? Why not list who the greatest Writer of all time is? Art isn't the only medium.

[Onur]

Lol @ France as ''germanic nation''.

French language and culture is worldwide considered ''gallo-romance'', as northern italian, occitan and catalan ones.
Ficuscarica is right about French people. French people might have speak Latin based language today but they were originally the Germanic tribe of Franks.

Franks was the very first Germanic tribe who have been christianized and assimilated by the Romans but before that, they were speaking a language something close to today`s Flemish, Dutch. They became totally romanized but their original tribal name of Franks still survives as the name of their country.

The case with French is kinda similar with the history of Bulgars and Bulgarians.

[Peyrol]

Oh yeah why they stop? Since 1400 Italy and the rest of the south have been behind both Germany & Britain in terms of acomplishment. The only Latin nation that was competing head to head with the two was France. You should reword your post, much of what is enjoyed today is British & German in origin.

Nope.
Renaissance started here, and in the 1600 Galileo was the founder of the scientific method, and in the successive centuries you had important scientist as Galvani, Volta, Fermi, Marconi, Majorana, etc.

[Geminus]

Ficuscarica is right about French people. French people might have speak Latin based language today but they were originally the Germanic tribe of Franks.

Franks was the very first Germanic tribe who have been christianized and assimilated by the Romans but before that, they were speaking a language something close to today`s Flemish, Dutch. They became totally romanized but their original tribal name of Franks still survives as the name of their country.

The case with French is kinda similar with the history of Bulgars and Bulgarians.

The French are in fact a mixture of Franks and the Gallo-Roman population who lived there before. In many parts of today France the Franks only were the ruling class, whereas most of the people were of Gallo-Roman origin.

[kabeiros]

That's the point.

Here was used, in ancient times, to describe non-latin and non-koinè speakers;
only during middle age revisionism of antiquity assumed a negative terms. I know a better word that describes N/Europeans. Vandals

[Smaug]

Nope.
Renaissance started here, and in the 1600 Galileo was the founder of the scientific method, and in the successive centuries you had important scientist as Galvani, Volta, Fermi, Marconi, Majorana, etc.

Yep, and don't forget that Portugal and Spain, along with navigators from the Maritime Republics started the Great Navigations, and were responsible for discovery of America. Portugal and Spain were the leading powers of that time.

[Peyrol]

Ficuscarica is right about French people. French people might have speak Latin based language today but they were originally the Germanic tribe of Franks.

Franks was the very first Germanic tribe who have been christianized and assimilated by the Romans but before that, they were speaking a language something close to today`s Flemish, Dutch. They became totally romanized but their original tribal name of Franks still survives as the name of their country.

The case with French is kinda similar with the history of Bulgars and Bulgarians.

So, following this argument, also lombards and piemonteis are in reality hidden germanic and bourgognons who were latinized, but conserved their ancestral names.

BTW, define ''ethnic french''

http://medialzas.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/france-langues.gif

[Übermensch]

I would agree partially.
Basically the first human civilization developed in the Near East/Mesopotamia (in a very fast and even misterious way), but it was a kinda ''proto-civilization'' not centered on the rational and free thinking, but non agriculture.
Then came the Greeks, the indo-europeans doric invaders where rather backward but with great fighting skills,while the ''mediterranean'' (cretans,pelsagians) locals where far more advanced, Greeks built their civilization also with contacts with near eastern people, thought Greeks differed from them because they introtuced a completely new way of thinking (philosophy and rationality), after that, Romans take some elements from Greek civilization but in a more pragmatical way, after the fall of the Roman Empire the germanics replaced Romans as master of Europe, and most of Bizantine/eastern civilization felt under the control of arabs.
I think germanic ''spirit'' is very different from greek/roman one, Greek/Roman idea is more ''static'' Apollonian while Germanic one is more dinamic ''faustian'' strongly realeted to the ''will of power'' pheraps all populations (mainly eurasians ''nordics'') that lived (since relatively recent times) without civilization (so Proto-indoeuropeans,Slavics,Germanics,Turkics,Mongols) had much more contact with the nature and they adapted to harsh climates. That's why pheraps they had stronger ''will to power'' than civilzed people, whom are decadent and nihilist,anyway slavics kept more this ''nature'' than Germanics (thought they partially being ''western'' like Poles, byzantine like Serbs and a specific '''russian'' civilization, relatively young if compared to the western one) whom take plenty of elements from Roman/Greek civilization, that's why this elemental,''barbarian'' ''will'' combined with the static civilzed vision of Greek/Romans created the current western civilization and as well the success of Germanic countries.

[Balmung]

Nope.
Renaissance started here, and in the 1600 Galileo was the founder of the scientific method, and in the successive centuries you had important scientist as Galvani, Volta, Fermi, Marconi, Majorana, etc.

Marconi? Tesla invented the radio, anyway.

http://i48.tinypic.com/314uvc4.jpg

[Anglojew]

I would agree partially.
Basically the first human civilization developed in the Near East/Mesopotamia (in a very fast and even misterious way), but it was a kinda ''proto-civilization'' not centered on the rational and free thinking, but non agriculture.
Then came the Greeks, the indo-europeans doric invaders where rather backward but with great fighting skills,while the ''mediterranean'' (cretans,pelsagians) locals where far more advanced, Greeks built their civilization also with contacts with near eastern people, thought Greeks differed from them because they introtuced a completely new way of thinking (philosophy and rationality), after that, Romans take some elements from Greek civilization but in a more pragmatical way, after the fall of the Roman Empire the germanics replaced Romans as master of Europe, and most of Bizantine/eastern civilization felt under the control of arabs.
I think germanic ''spirit'' is very different from greek/roman one, Greek/Roman idea is more ''static'' Apollonian while Germanic one is more dinamic ''faustian'' strongly realeted to the ''will of power'' pheraps all populations (mainly eurasians ''nordics'') that lived (since relatively recent times) without civilization (so Proto-indoeuropeans,Slavics,Germanics,Turkics,Mongols) had much more contact with the nature and they adapted to harsh climates. That's why pheraps they had stronger ''will to power'' than civilzed people, whom are decadent and nihilist,anyway slavics kept more this ''nature'' than Germanics (thought they partially being ''western'' like Poles, byzantine like Serbs and a specific '''russian'' civilization, relatively young if compared to the western one) whom take plenty of elements from Roman/Greek civilization, that's why this elemental,''barbarian'' ''will'' combined with the static civilzed vision of Greek/Romans created the current western civilization and as well the success of Germanic countries.

The basic problem is peaceful "civilised" cultures get taken over by violent cultures.

[Peyrol]

The French are in fact a mixture of Franks and the Gallo-Roman population who lived there before. In many parts of today France the Franks only were the ruling class, whereas most of the people were of Gallo-Roman origin.

Same is happened with longobards in northern Italy: despite the fat they were about 250,000 people, they were mostly the ruling class over a Gallo-Roman population.

That's why i laugh when people talk about ''germanicness'' of northern Italy.

[Jackson]

So, following this argument, also lombards and piemonteis are in reality hidden germanic and bourgognons who were latinized, but conserved their ancestral names.

BTW, define ''ethnic french''

http://medialzas.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/france-langues.gif

Good point. France is probably one of the most varied areas of Europe, in terms of ethnicity. Modern France is essentially that from my understanding - The elite decided they wanted standardization and everyone became French?

[Übermensch]

The basic problem is peaceful "civilised" cultures get taken over by violent cultures.

Because they become weak without ideals and people nihilist, so that's natural less civilized,more motivated and agressive cultures take advantage over them.

[Ira di Dio]

They were, now they are more civilized than any Southern European country. Fact.

[Anglojew]

Because they become weak without ideals and people nihilist, so that's natural less civilized,more motivated and agressive cultures.

That explains Islam but does it also explain the West?

I think you've articulated my essential point.

[Peyrol]

Marconi? Tesla invented the radio, anyway.

http://i48.tinypic.com/314uvc4.jpg

Marconi (emilian) and Hertz (german) team-work developed the first commercial and mass use of wireless telegraphy, and also for this law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marconi%27s_law), which is basilar for all the modern communication system.

[Peyrol]

Good point. France is probably one of the most varied areas of Europe, in terms of ethnicity. Modern France is essentially that from my understanding - The elite decided they wanted standardization and everyone became French?

Despite all the (northern) french people always deny this fact, was during the Revolution that standard french language was chose as ''the language of the Revolution'', so all the other languages were considered ''ancient'' or ''vulgar, rural and poor''. Plus, they ''frenchized'' any new annexation...an example?
The annexation of Nizza/Nice to France in 1859, when us (Piemont) gave the city county, plus the entire Savoie, to Napoleon III's French Empire: all the local toponym in Nizza/Nice were frenchized (Nizza-->Nice, Mentone-->Menton, Villafranca--->Villefranche-sur-Mer, etc) and also surnames...Del Ponte became Dupont, Rossi became Rouge, etc.

[Osprey]

Democracy is overrated anyway..
Mediocrity of the Masses, not holding on to 'extreme' (to some) ideals and vice of complacency is far less perfect than a strong leader.

[Jackson]

Despite all the (northern) french people always deny this fact, was during the Revolution that standard french language was chose as ''the language of the Revolution'', so all the other languages were considered ''ancient'' or ''vulgar, rural and poor''. Plus, they ''frenchized'' any new annexation...an example?
The annexation of Nizza/Nice to France in 1859, when us (Piemont) gave the city county, plus the entire Savoie, to Napoleon III's French Empire: all the local toponym in Nizza/Nice were frenchized (Nizza-->Nice, Mentone-->Menton, Villafranca--->Villefranche-sur-Mer, etc) and also surnames...Del Ponte became Dupont, Rossi became Rouge, etc.

Yeah i'd heard something like that - It's good to know it is the case. Just shows how destructive forming a new national identity can be...So basically everything was turned 'standard French' and over the last couple of centuries people have got used to being this new entity?

[Balmung]

Marconi (emilian) and Hertz (german) team-work developed the first commercial and mass use of wireless telegraphy, and also for this law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marconi%27s_law), which is basilar for all the modern communication system.

You mean Braun? Marconi borrowed much of his work, he was famous for that.

At any rate i'd say thats the equivalent of Henry Ford and his successful mass production of cars. Henry Ford didn't invent the automobile though.

The first successful and witnessed wireless transmission was demonstrated by Tesla in 1893.

[ficuscarica]

I know a better word that describes N/Europeans. Vandals

They developed a civilization that is light years ahead of any Greek civilization both in the past and in the present.

[Ouistreham]

The bottom line reads:

Since the demise of the Roman Empire we've been living for over 1,500 years in the Barbarian Era, which is a longer duration than any other civilisation or empire has experienced so far in history.

And there is no evidence whatsoever that this era will take an end anytime soon. And if it were to stop, there is no worthy successor we can think of (China? A Jewish-Muslim condominium?).

Everything that shaped our modern world — technology, human rights, democracy (for the best or the worst, that's another question), the reign of law etc. — was a by-product of Barbarian ethos.

[Peyrol]

Yeah i'd heard something like that - It's good to know it is the case. Just shows how destructive forming a new national identity can be...So basically everything was turned 'standard French' and over the last couple of centuries people have got used to being this new entity?

Something similar is also happening here, where regional languages are slowly being replaced from standard italian language (which is a language based on XII-XIV century tuscan).



Btw, Occitan language, for example, is heavy endangered, and this is a shame because was used to be the language of many Crusaders, plus the language of the Medieval Poetry (the Trobadours). Not surprising that the areal of conservation of this language is in the extreme borderd of former Occitane World: Valadas here in Piemont and Val D'Aran in Spain/Catalunya:

http://www.la-cerchia.it/sito/wp-content/uploads/cartina-geografica-occitania.jpg

(this map show the original occitan names of the regions; ''Alvernha'' instead of ''Auvergne'', ''Lemosin'' instead of ''Limousine'', etc.

[Prince Carlo]

Actually Volta is one of the most important scientist in the field of electromagnetism. Without his Voltaic pile 99% of modern scientic discoveries wouldn't have been possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaic_pile

[Peyrol]

Actually Volta is one of the most important scientist in the field of electromagnetism. Without his Voltaic pile 99% of modern scientic discoveries wouldn't have been possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaic_pile

Without Galilei's scientific method (''try, experiment, discard and try again''), no one of the modern invention have been possible.

But Joseph, you know that people always denigrate everything is/was born in the Italian Peninsula...:rolleyes:

[Osprey]

Actually Volta is one of the most important scientist in the field of electromagnetism. Without his Voltaic pile 99% of modern scientic discoveries wouldn't have been possible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaic_pile

Without Newton's Laws, NONE of the modern discoveries were possible

[ficuscarica]

Everything that shaped our modern world — technology, human rights, democracy (for the best or the worst, that's another question), the reign of law etc. — was a by-product of Barbarian ethos.[/B]

Unfortunately the Barbarians invite their enemies into their countries. The fall of the Barbarians will be the most tragic end of a civilization the world has ever seen. A civilization that invites its enemies and pays for their housing, food and entertainment.

[Osprey]

Without Galilei's scientific method (''try, experiment, discard and try again''), no one of the modern invention have been possible.

But Joseph, you know that people always denigrate everything is/was born in the Italian Peninsula...:rolleyes:

I don't think a teen in a remote area of lincolnshire knew about galilei....

[Peyrol]

I don't think a teen in a remote area of lincolnshire knew about galilei....

This don't change the fact that is the Father of modern Science, lol :lol:

[Peyrol]

Unfortunately the Barbarians invite their enemies into their countries. The fall of the Barbarians will be the most tragic end of a civilization the world has ever seen. A civilization that invites its enemies and pays for their housing, food and entertainment.

Yes, it was due to the christiano-roman law of ''Hospitalitas''.

Mhh...this remind me something of contemporary...:(

[Pallantides]

I envy the southerons a bit, when my ancestors were hunting moose and everyday life was a fight for survival, Greeks and Romans indulged themselves in orgies and all manner of debauchery.
http://i.imgur.com/LbGGx.gif

http://i.imgur.com/jSHyH.gif

[ficuscarica]

Yes, it was due to the christiano-roman law of ''Hospitalitas''.

Mhh...this remind me something of contemporary...:(

I am talking exactly about that contemporary thing. :(

[Balmung]

But Joseph, you know that people always denigrate everything is/was born in the Italian Peninsula...:rolleyes:

That's not true.

There's a difference between noting Italian contributions, and claiming absolute superiority. This thread (not suprisingly started by Anglojew) is insisting on the notion that Southerners are superior.

Honestly, what did you think the attitude in the thread would be like?

[Prince Carlo]

Without Newton's Laws, NONE of the modern discoveries were possible

You are right on this. However Newton was probably the best in his scientific fields (mechanics and perhaps optics), but Volta was the initializer of the electromagnetic era and so computers, phones, radios,...

[ficuscarica]

I envy the southerons a bit, when my ancestors were hunting moose and everyday was a fight for survival, Greeks and Romans indulged themselves in orgies and all manner of debauchery.
http://i.imgur.com/LbGGx.gif

http://i.imgur.com/jSHyH.gif

Thanks. I really Laughed Out Loud.

[Osprey]

This don't change the fact that is the Father of modern Science, lol :lol:

That means Newton developed his laws and calculus independently.

[kabeiros]

They developed a civilization that is light years ahead of any Greek civilization both in the past and in the present.
You kepp talking about civilization as if it's only about technological innovation, whis is wrong. Hundreds of posters already elaborated on how any civilization borrows from it's predecessor to shape it's own future and this holds true for technology, too (in fact it is even more important in technology). What ever you have invented was based on the knowledge you stole from Greco-Romans.

The ancient Greeks had the knowledge and skills to develope high technology but they didn't have to because they had slaves to do the dirty jobs. Just look at the antikythera mechanism which is the first ''computer'' that man ever made or Heron's invention of the first vending machine in 1st cent. AD.
Had ancient Greeks the need for technological innovation, we would have trains in 200 AD and man would have gone to the moon by 500 AD.

[Osprey]

Even Tacitus, commented on the simple yet Noble laws of the German savages compared to the backstabbing/deceit/vice/debauchery/ and all the associated shit that was going on in Rome.
That does not mean Rome is inferior. But that each society gets weak and inferior if it stops fighting for its ideals and survival.

[Vesuvian Sky]

Once upon a time though, before the mystical mythical Neolithic Farmer category or whatever that's supposed to mean on Eurogenes hunter-farmer test, even us gosh dern lowly Meds were hunter-gatherers.

It was called Aurignacian culture, and entered Europe via the Med. first.

Oh well, long live sacred Germany!

[Osprey]

Nicolas Copernicus : Astronomy's first spark (of course, after the Babylonians, but independently of them) was Slavo Germanic.

[ficuscarica]

You kepp talking about civilization as if it's only about technological innovation, whis is wrong. Hundreds of posters already elaborated on how any civilization borrows from it's predecessor to shape it's own future and this holds true for technology, too (in fact it is even more important in technology). What ever you have invented was based on the knowledge you stole from Greco-Romans.

The ancient Greeks had the knowledge and skills to develope high technology but they didn't have to because they had slaves to do the dirty jobs. Just look at the antikythera mechanism which is the first ''computer'' that man ever made or Heron's invention of the first vending machine in 1st cent. AD.
Had ancient Greeks the need for technological innovation, we would have trains in 200 AD and man would have gone to the moon by 500 AD.

LoL, Greeks invented the computer. Good joke. Cars, computers, motorcycles, lightbulbs, electricity, airplanes, jetplanes, internet, bicycles and modern industry are based on Greco-Roman inventions. Give me a break. :rolleyes: You live based on our achievements.

Everyone borrows to an extent. But the main inventions of the Barbarians are far, far, far more advanced than your pre-industrial donkey carts. That´s the truth. Whether you like it or not. We also created modern human rights, while Greeks buttfucked boys and kept slaves. :rolleyes: So much about non-technologic aspects of civilization.

[Peyrol]

I am talking exactly about that contemporary thing. :(

The History is cyclic, unfortunately.


I envy the southerons a bit, when my ancestors were hunting moose and everyday life was a fight for survival, Greeks and Romans indulged themselves in orgies and all manner of debauchery.
http://i.imgur.com/LbGGx.gif

http://i.imgur.com/jSHyH.gif

It was a GREAT time.

I wish i was in one of emperor Nerone's private dinners.:cool:


That's not true.

There's a difference between noting Italian contributions, and claiming absolute superiority. This thread (not suprisingly started by Anglojew) is insisting on the notion that Southerners are superior.

Honestly, what did you think the attitude in the thread would be like?

I'm not saying this, i never said or claimed this.
I only pointed out some bullshits written by some (casually, all non germanic members, probabily german-wannabe) users.

[Balmung]

Just look at the antikythera mechanism which is the first ''computer'' that man ever made or Heron's invention of the first vending machine in 1st cent. AD.
Had ancient Greeks the need for technological innovation, we would have trains in 200 AD and man would have gone to the moon by 500 AD.

You mean this

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/files/2008/07/ancient-greek-computer.jpg

Wasn't that more like a clock?

I wouldn't compare it, and its function to modern computers at all.

[Peyrol]

That means Newton developed his laws and calculus independently.

Nope.
Newton was an universitary professor, not an ignorant peasant.

[Sikeliot]

Yes, northern Europeans are barbarians.

[Peyrol]

Nicolas Copernicus : Astronomy's first spark (of course, after the Babylonians, but independently of them) was Slavo Germanic.

''Slavo-germanic'' category don't exist ( and just ask to XIX-XX centuries german and nazi nordicists what they thougth about ''slavs'').

It's funny see ho some people try to make related some ethnic group wich in reality aren't related in some stupid categories (''celto-germanic'', ''celto-slavo-balto-germanic'' or something similar), and ignore some other heavy and historical proved relations.
Mumble-mumble...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo-Celtic

[ficuscarica]

Greco-Roman light of the world
http://imeu.net/engine2/uploads/2/donkey-cart-gaza_1.jpg

Barbarian
http://www.mdr.de/sachsen/ami132_v-standardBig_zc-3ad1f7a1.jpg%3Fversion%3D16760

/close thread

[Madonna]

Yes, northern Europeans are barbarians.


ooo it was cruel Poles are too ? but men only right?

[Ira di Dio]

It's funny see ho some people try to make related some ethnic group wich in reality aren't related in some stupid categories (''celto-slavo-balto-germanic'' os something similar), and ignore some other heavy and historical relations.
:thumb001: One fine example is the above exemplified "Greco-Roman" category.

[Peyrol]

:thumb001: One fine example is the above exemplified "Greco-Roman" category.

Yes, also ''Greco roman''.

If Roman Republic thought about a similar category, probabily the tribunus Tito Quinzio Flaminio would haven't exterminated about 80,000 macedonians in one single day, after the Battle of Cynoscephalae :lol:

[Übermensch]

Even Tacitus, commented on the simple yet Noble laws of the German savages compared to the backstabbing/deceit/vice/debauchery/ and all the associated shit that was going on in Rome.
That does not mean Rome is inferior. But that each society gets weak and inferior if it stops fighting for its ideals and survival.

I think every civilization starts with an idea (''culture''-''kultur'') that regards every aspects of the life (religion,law,science etc), this idea moves the first stage of civilization, in this phase civilization starts to growth and to shaping herself, individuals have a strong rule in the ''kultur''.
While after growing and being more stable and rich, as well more urbanized, civilization becomes a proper one (zivilization) and starts to decline,individual is dissolved into masses, without and ideas and culture dissolves, so less civilzed and more motivated populations take advantage over the dying civilization, eventually taking elements from.
I think basically civilizations follow this cycle, of course the stronger is the ''idea'', more powerfull the civilization would be, more capable to do achievement and such, but however it must decline at some points.

[kabeiros]

You mean this

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/files/2008/07/ancient-greek-computer.jpg

Wasn't that more like a clock?

I wouldn't compare it, and its function to modern computers at all.
You guys are hilarious. Firstly I put '' '' on computer for a reason, I didn't mean modern computers. This device was a ''mechanical calculator'' which barbarian northerners managed to immitate some thousand years later (and who knows, maybe they even read some of Heron's scripts and copied his ideas)

[Peyrol]

Now i will invent the category ''Italo-Andine'' and bring some anti-historical stuffs to support this (''wait, modern Incas/Quechua speak a romance language, so the MUST be related with us'').

[ficuscarica]

You guys are hilarious. Firstly I put '' '' on computer for a reason, I didn't mean modern computers. This device was a ''mechanical calculator'' which barbarian northerners managed to immitate some thousand years later (and who knows, maybe they even read some of Heron's scripts and copied his ideas)

Pathetic. It´s like an ape calling a laserpointer an imitation of his wooden stick.

But seriously, if Greeks wouldn´t have been such a developed slave keeping society, they would have reached the moon with a flying Tireme, I am sure.

[Osprey]

You kepp talking about civilization as if it's only about technological innovation, whis is wrong. Hundreds of posters already elaborated on how any civilization borrows from it's predecessor to shape it's own future and this holds true for technology, too (in fact it is even more important in technology). What ever you have invented was based on the knowledge you stole from Greco-Romans.

The ancient Greeks had the knowledge and skills to develope high technology but they didn't have to because they had slaves to do the dirty jobs. Just look at the antikythera mechanism which is the first ''computer'' that man ever made or Heron's invention of the first vending machine in 1st cent. AD.
Had ancient Greeks the need for technological innovation, we would have trains in 200 AD and man would have gone to the moon by 500 AD.

Wrong.
Ancient societies were far too indisciplined, chaotic and full of complacency that no one could have gone to the moon.
It is the select few who do the 'dirty work' of progress. Those people need place, funds, encouragement and safety to ply their work. Certainly not found in adundance in ancient societies.

[ficuscarica]

Wrong.
Ancient societies were far too indisciplined, chaotic and full of complacency that no one could have gone to the moon.
It is the select few who do the 'dirty work' of progress. Those people need place, funds, encouragement and safety to ply their work. Certainly not found in adundance in ancient societies.

Why do you even answer that crap. He just makes 100% baseless claims. All they developed was a pre-industrial primitive society that would be wiped out by Barbarians in an hour or less. The Greeks would think the gods had come to judge them when they saw the "Barbarian" airplanes bombing their donkey cart. It would be like the alien invasion in independence day. An infinitely superior society crushing a primitive people...

"Hey, you know what, if I wasn´t enjoying life so much I would already have built a spaceship that brings you everywhere in the whole universe." :picard1:

[Anusiya]

Pathetic. It´s like an ape calling a laserpointer an imitation of his wooden stick.

But seriously, if Greeks wouldn´t have been such a developed slave keeping society, they would have reached the moon with a flying Tireme, I am sure.

Fikifiki, gtfo, because the previous time we had another discussion about the achievements of the north compared to the south you had your ass handed over to you on a plate.

Slaves? Seriously? The "slavery" you are referring to isn't that different from the subjugate in a Austro-Hungarian province. At least the Athenian form was 2500 years ago, not 300.

You have a lot of road to cover before even conceiving the notion of democracy. A lot!

[Peyrol]

Also the category ''Romano-Thai'' could work well... ''They were used to conserve food in jars, like our ancestors...so, we're a single population! Hail to the Italosiam master race!"

[ficuscarica]

Fikifiki, gtfo, because the previous time we had another discussion about the achievements of the north compared to the south you had your ass handed over to you on a plate.

Slaves? Seriously? The "slavery" you are referring to isn't that different from the subjugate in a Austro-Hungarian province. At least the Athenian form was 2500 years ago, not 300.

You have a lot of road to cover before even conceiving the notion of democracy. A lot!

All I remember is that you denied the worldwide consense about who invented the computer. Anyway, it surely was a Barbarian (as it is the case with all modern technology), and not a Greek. Do you really want me to prove that basically all modern technology comes from the Barbarians. Come on, you know that already... :thumb001:

[kabeiros]

It is the select few who do the 'dirty work' of progress.Indeed, Heron was one of them

Those people need place, funds, encouragement and safety to ply their work. Certainly not found in adundance in ancient societies. Heron had all of this. Alexandreia was under Rome's protection and it was a wealthy city were learning flourished. But what he didn't have was encouragement, especially from politicians. If they needed technological inventions in order to protect themselves or to do the necessary manual labour, they would have ordered the scientists to invent useful stuff. But they didn't so Heron invented things just for the fun and to please his curiosity

[Balmung]

which barbarian northerners managed to immitate some thousand years later (and who knows, maybe they even read some of Heron's scripts and copied his ideas)


Sooooo......

If i got this correct, Ancient Greeks invented a caculator, that savages couldn't immitate a thousand years later.

Those same savages gave the world modern computer science. And invented the "real" computers of today, with little competition from the south. I can't name a single Southern computer. Even the United States contributed more to modern computers than the south of Europe did.

So its a complete reversal, yeah?

As for your claim of copying ideas, that calculator was found at sea, and apparently its been down there for 2,000 years.

[ficuscarica]

Sooooo......

If i got this correct, Ancient Greeks invented a caculator, that savages couldn't immitate a thousand years later.

Those same savages gave the world modern computer science. And invented the "real" computers of today, with little competition from the south. I can't name a single Southern computer. Even the United States contributed more to modern computers than the south of Europe did.

So its a complete reversal, yeah?

As for your claim of copying ideas, that calculator was found at sea, and apparently its been down there for 2,000 years.

LOL, they brag about that little ridiculous thing when we have built computers and machines that can turn their whole country into rubble in hours. Each single Greek or Roman invention is a prehistoric joke compared to what the Barbarians created. Sad but true.

[Peyrol]

I missed those kind of topic: ''North VS South discussions'' were absent from T.A. since 2011 spring.

[ficuscarica]

I missed those kind of topic: ''North VS South discussions'' were absent from T.A. since 2011 spring.

*Punch on the right eye* - Take this, Spaghetti!

[Ira di Dio]

I missed those kind of topic: ''North VS South discussions'' were absent from T.A. since 2011 spring.
Yeah I guess that we need to divert the attention from more "real" inter-ethnic conflicts somehow. ;)

[kabeiros]

The whole thread is about two Jews who are trying to create animosity between northern and southern Europeans :cool:The essense of this thread is this. The rest are just for the fun of it.

[Peyrol]

*Punch on the right eye* - Take this, Spaghetti!

I prefer to put spaghetti in my butth*le, i love when tomato sauce start to melt.
Can you put them inside?

[ficuscarica]

I prefer to put spaghetti in my butth*le, i love when tomato sauce start to melt.
Can you put them inside?

Did the immigrants from Morocco convert you to islamic Phallus worship? :eek:

[Corvus]

The Ancient Romans and Greeks invented great things like corruption, greed, sexual orgies, alcoholism, complacancy, the philosophy of hedonism....The list is incomplete.
They really were pioneers of our modern human society. Superb role models

[Peyrol]

Did the immigrants from Morocco convert you to islamic Phallus worship? :eek:

Damn, you've got me!

No i will put a bomb in the Freiburg im Breisgau train station.

Allah o akhbar!

[Peyrol]

I passed Inquiring Mind in the ''Top 24 hours posters'' classify. :eek:

..something wrong with my free-rime.

[kabeiros]

The Ancient Romans and Greeks invented great things like corruption, greed, sexual orgies, alcoholism, complacancy, the philosophy of hedonism We invented everything, even the God or Gods that you worship :D

[Balmung]

The essense of this thread is this. The rest are just for the fun of it.

Pretty much.

I think its really just a case of Anglojew being butthurt over what someone else said in another thread, now once again creates a topic to draw attention to the whole group. It is becoming a trademark of his now.

Next time an Italian insults him it will be "Why are Southerners so blah blah blah". Its been fun though, now i'm going back to Skyrim! :lol:

[Peyrol]

I think that 22 pages are sufficient.