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Thread: Are Croatians Slavic or Germanic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoliOtok View Post
    Let's not hurl insults. It seems you are trying to insult me for something I said earlier. If Persians were not Muslim up until the 11th century, then how does that defeat anything I said? I said that the Ottoman empire broke in to the Balkans; In Serbia and Bosnia during the 14th Century.By that time they were all Muslims. And even though they occupied Serbia the Serbs did not convert to Islam like the Bosniaks did.
    Battle of Kosovo was in 14th century, and this is when sultan Murad 1 was killed by Serbian Milosh Obilic (only time in 700 year history Turkish sultan was killed in Battle). Ottomans did not take Serbs here, Serbian state still thrived.

    It was only in middle of 15th century that Ottomans began to seriously encroach on Serbian lands. By the end of the 15th century was only when they managed to take important city of Smederevo after 8 years of sieging and failing.

    And it was only in 16th century that Turks took Beograd, and Serbian state was officially disbanded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jelisava View Post
    Croats had available a referendum where they could voted up if they want an independent and autonomous Croatia and 90 percent of Croats were voted that wants independent Croatia. Serbs were declared independence of Serbia 1 year earlier than Croats. This was followed by Serbian aggression against Croats. Serbs from the Croatian Krajina were armed to the teeth, and Tudjman, Croatian President had a political plan, which I think was called z-4, Tudjman was actually trying to protect Serbs. I personally think that the Croatian independence was planned ethnic cleansing of Croats.
    During Yugoslavia has occurred great depopulation of Croats, killing many Germans. 1910 year census the population of the city of Vukovar: in the town of Vukovar lived 40 per cent Croats, 30 percent of Germans, 15 percent of Serbs and other minorities, and the Germans were ethnically cleansed, after that Vukovar was inhabited by mountain Serbs after 1945.
    That actually makes sense. If Croatia declared independence first and started the war against Serbia, I believe America and Nato Would have intervened on Serbia's behalf. Just like they did for Albania during the Kosovo crisis. America and Nato only seems to intervene when the least Germanic tribe is being ethnically cleansed. They don't care if Germans or Croats are killed. That has been their attitude since World War 2. That's why I didn't understand the situation because I thought if Croatia started the War then America would have stepped in like they always do. They showed their hypocrisy though when they bombed Serbia to give Kosovo to Albanian Muslims. Why did they care about those Muslims, and at the same time let Palestinians and Iraqis get murdered? They just wanted to Show Serbia who is boss and to spread Islam in Europe.

    But It's still surprising to me that Serbia declared independence first, even though Serbia has a long history of wanting to be independent, and not wanting to mix with other people. They showed that when the Archduke of the Austro-Hungarian empire was assassinated by Serbs. And they wanted independence badly after being occupied by Turkey for so long. I thought they were doing better economically when Yugoslavia was around. Maybe that was only the case while Tito was alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoliOtok View Post
    That actually makes sense. If Croatia declared independence first and started the war against Serbia, I believe America and Nato Would have intervened on Serbia's behalf. Just like they did for Albania during the Kosovo crisis. America and Nato only seems to intervene when the least Germanic tribe is being ethnically cleansed. They don't care if Germans or Croats are killed. That has been their attitude since World War 2. That's why I didn't understand the situation because I thought if Croatia started the War then America would have stepped in like they always do. They showed their hypocrisy though when they bombed Serbia to give Kosovo to Albanian Muslims. Why did they care about those Muslims, and at the same time let Palestinians and Iraqis get murdered? They just wanted to Show Serbia who is boss and to spread Islam in Europe.

    But It's still surprising to me that Serbia declared independence first, even though Serbia has a long history of wanting to be independent, and not wanting to mix with other people. They showed that when the Archduke of the Austro-Hungarian empire was assassinated by Serbs. And they wanted independence badly after being occupied by Turkey for so long. I thought they were doing better economically when Yugoslavia was around. Maybe that was only the case while Tito was alive.
    You don't understand the Yugoslav wars, let me make this a bit easy, research them more if interested.

    Croatia was first to move for independence from Yugoslavia (not from Serbia, it was not part of Serbia as this was separate republic).

    When Croatia moved for independence, the Serbian minority (10-15%) immediately declared themselves independent of Croatia and wanted to remain part of Yugoslavia (where the rest of the Serbs were part of). The Croatian war was not Yugoslavia vs Croatia nor was it Croatia vs Serbia, it was Croatia vs Croatia's Serbian minority.

    There were accusations that this Serbian minority was fianced, armed, encouraged by Miloshevic but this was only natural. Besides some bombing of Dubrovnik and the taking of Vukovar, the war in Croatia was completely internal civil war between Croatian majority and Serbian minority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_Dusan View Post
    Battle of Kosovo was in 14th century, and this is when sultan Murad 1 was killed by Serbian Milosh Obilic (only time in 700 year history Turkish sultan was killed in Battle). Ottomans did not take Serbs here, Serbian state still thrived.

    It was only in middle of 15th century that Ottomans began to seriously encroach on Serbian lands. By the end of the 15th century was only when they managed to take important city of Smederevo after 8 years of sieging and failing.

    And it was only in 16th century that Turks took Beograd, and Serbian state was officially disbanded.
    Okay fair enough. I know about Miloš Obilić story in 1389 at the battle of Kosovo Polje. I thought that is when they took Kosovo and started Occupying Serbia. But I guess you know the history better than me. But in any case it doesn't matter, I was only making a point that Serbs and Croats did not originate from Eastern Persia Like AngloJew said. Serbs and Croats where in the location they were long before any Muslim Empire started to encroach on the European lands around Serbia and Bulgaria. And Serbia was not invaded by the Persian empire but the Ottoman empire who were Muslims. Davai said that the Persian empire became Muslim in the 11th century. If that is the case then it only proves my point that if Serbs came from the Persian Empire they would be Muslims. But Serbs aren't Muslims. They never converted even though the Turks eventually took them over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoliOtok View Post
    Okay fair enough. I know about Miloš Obilić story in 1389 at the battle of Kosovo Polje. I thought that is when they took Kosovo and started Occupying Serbia. But I guess you know the history better than me. But in any case it doesn't matter, I was only making a point that Serbs and Croats did not originate from Eastern Persia Like AngloJew said. Serbs and Croats where in the location they were long before any Muslim Empire started to encroach on the European lands around Serbia and Bulgaria. And Serbia was not invaded by the Persian empire but the Ottoman empire who were Muslims. Davai said that the Persian empire became Muslim in the 11th century. If that is the case then it only proves my point that if Serbs came from the Persian Empire they would be Muslims. But Serbs aren't Muslims. They never converted even though the Turks eventually took them over.
    There are some weird and exotic theory on origin of Serbs. Serbs were initially invited to Byzantine Empire by some Emperor to help defend some plots of land.

    Serbs tie ourselves to the land of the Sorbs, but there is other theories (not necessarily mutually exclusive) that take us all the way to Afghanistan. It's basically chasing toponyms. Genetically Serbians are 100% European, linguistically our language is slavic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_Dusan View Post
    You don't understand the Yugoslav wars, let me make this a bit easy, research them more if interested.

    Croatia was first to move for independence from Yugoslavia (not from Serbia, it was not part of Serbia as this was separate republic).

    When Croatia moved for independence, the Serbian minority (10-15%) immediately declared themselves independent of Croatia and wanted to remain part of Yugoslavia (where the rest of the Serbs were part of). The Croatian war was not Yugoslavia vs Croatia nor was it Croatia vs Serbia, it was Croatia vs Croatia's Serbian minority.

    There were accusations that this Serbian minority was fianced, armed, encouraged by Miloshevic but this was only natural. Besides some bombing of Dubrovnik and the taking of Vukovar, the war in Croatia was completely internal civil war between Croatian majority and Serbian minority.
    Yeah I understand that Croatia declared independence from Yugoslavia, not Serbia. And yeah I originally thought it was Croatia that declared independence first. What is confusing to me about it is if Croatia was ethnically cleansing the Serbian minority in Croatia, why didn't outside forces intervene like they did when Kosovo declared independence from Serbia? It seems strange to me that the U.S. and Nato would interfere with Serbia during the Kosovo war but they didn't interfere with Croatia when they were doing almost the same thing to Serbs in the Yugoslav civil war. That's what I don't understand. Maybe there is some political reason for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoliOtok View Post
    Yeah I understand that Croatia declared independence from Yugoslavia, not Serbia. And yeah I originally thought it was Croatia that declared independence first. What is confusing to me about it is if Croatia was ethnically cleansing the Serbian minority in Croatia, why didn't outside forces intervene like they did when Kosovo declared independence from Serbia? It seems strange to me that the U.S. and Nato would interfere with Serbia during the Kosovo war but they didn't interfere with Croatia when they were doing almost the same thing to Serbs in the Yugoslav civil war. That's what I don't understand. Maybe there is some political reason for that.
    Well ethnic cleansing of Serbs in Croatia officially happened in 1995, it was something that Serbian people there feared, but until Operation Storm, Croatia was not in good condition to do any wide spread ethnic cleansing of Serbs, when they did, NATO and international community said some light words but more or less ignored it.

    Ofc, you are looking for moral equivalence where there is none. NATO wanted to destroy Yugoslavia to incorporate it bit by bit into EU. Serbs unfortunately were the ones who took control of Yugoslavia after the fall of USSR, and we were the ones who defended it, not because of communism but because we wanted 1 state where all Serbs lived inside. However we were destroyed because of communism. The justifications of ethnic cleansing is just excuses NATO used so the world wouldn't complain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan_Dusan View Post
    There are some weird and exotic theory on origin of Serbs. Serbs were initially invited to Byzantine Empire by some Emperor to help defend some plots of land.

    Serbs tie ourselves to the land of the Sorbs, but there is other theories (not necessarily mutually exclusive) that take us all the way to Afghanistan. It's basically chasing toponyms. Genetically Serbians are 100% European, linguistically our language is slavic.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs

    It says there that the Sorbs are a region on the territory of Germany and Poland. Maybe Serbs have some German blood?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoliOtok View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs

    It says there that the Sorbs are a region on the territory of Germany and Poland. Maybe Serbs have some German blood?
    I don't know the genetics of Sorbs, but supposedly they kept their purity despite living surrounded by Germans. We did have a lot of German saxon minors all through out the Balkans, however genetic impact is small to nonexistent. Serbian people are generally against mixing especially at those times when saxons existed. After WW2, they were kicked out because they were stereotyped as 'backstabbers'

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    Can someone delete this ridiculous thread already?
    Last edited by Insuperable; 12-26-2014 at 12:36 AM.

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