Classify this woman

[SilverFish]

http://meathfinegael.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/regina_doherty.jpg

And what kind of skin tone is that?

[SilverFish]

anybody?

[Óttar]

Irish? :P

[SilverFish]

Irish? :P

Yes, but I don't see Bruenn traits.

I'd guess Alpiniod.

[Stefan]

Sub-Nordid, her features aren't defined like you would see in Nordids, and her nose is pretty wide, at the same time she doesn't look full-blown Alpinid either. As for her skin tone, does "tanning" count as a color?

[Absinthe]

Skin tone = fake tan. Typical orange shade as a result of overbaking oneself under the solarium lamps ;)

[Stefan]

Skin tone = fake tan. Typical orange shade as a result of overbaking oneself under the solarium lamps ;)

Yep, same thing I thought. I hate when people do that. It looks nowhere near as good as a natural tan and probably doesn't look as good as their natural skin color either. Plus it is a health risk. It seems more common though because everybody wants a "fast" tan.

[The Black Prince]

Skintone on her face? Make-Up tan that is.

To retrieve her real skintone, take her bullocks (or under her arm) and keep it next to a Von Luschan skintone map. Most likely as I see perhaps part of the true skintone above her blouse it will be somewhere between Von Luschan 3-6. Below 3 is the skintone of albino's but I see freckles which correspond with the lighter type of the white skintones in Von Luschan scale.

Concerning her phenotype from only this pic, Nordid-Cromagnid. The Cromagnid part might be reduced/paedomorphized seeing the nasal area.


Sub-Nordid, her features aren't defined like you would see in Nordids, and her nose is pretty wide, at the same time she doesn't look full-blown Alpinid either.

Alpinoid is in a way nothing more as a brachycephalized and strong reduced/paedomorphized Cromagnid.

[MeorgeGichaels]

Looks Swedish to me, NordishAlpine. Skintone=makeup.

[SilverFish]

Skintone on her face? Make-Up tan that is.
Alpinoid is in a way nothing more as a brachycephalized and strong reduced/paedomorphized Cromagnid.

I see alpinoid because her zygomatic bones are not as wide and I also see brachycephalization.

The reason why I am saying about her skin tone is that I can see freckles on her breast. Just wondering if that is an Irish skin tone or not...

[SilverFish]

On the other hand, I would say reduced Bruenn.

[The Black Prince]

The reason why I am saying about her skin tone is that I can see freckles on her breast. Just wondering if that is an Irish skin tone or not...

Yups, you could deem it Irish, but it is also common with the continental Northern Cromagnids

Most likely as I see perhaps part of the true skintone above her blouse it will be somewhere between Von Luschan 3-6. Below 3 is the skintone of albino's but I see freckles which correspond with the lighter type of the white skintones in Von Luschan scale.

[Stefan]

I still stick to sub-nordid, which is Nordid with some Alpinid admixture. She does look Brachycephalic(definitely not Dolichocephalic) to me as well. She is way to light for an Alpinid though, and her nose is way to thin/long for any Cro-Magnoid type, while still being too wide for Nordid.

[SilverFish]

Yups, you could deem it Irish, but it is also common with the continental Northern Cromagnids

Even alpiniods?

What do you mean Northern Cromagnids?

[Stefan]

I would classify my grandmother(the one who is supposedly mestizo ;) ) as Alpinid, and she had freckles. Alpinids could get pretty light, but they tan easily and they have dark(er) hair and eyes.

[SilverFish]

I would classify my grandmother(the one who is supposedly mestizo ;) ) as Alpinid, and she had freckles. Alpinids could get pretty light, but they tan easily and they have dark(er) hair and eyes.

Why not reduced Bruenn for the woman I posted?

[SilverFish]

I would classify my grandmother(the one who is supposedly mestizo ;) ) as Alpinid, and she had freckles. Alpinids could get pretty light, but they tan easily and they have dark(er) hair and eyes.

Yeah, I don't think that woman I posted could tan easily. It's just that. Light, not pale, and can't tan...

[Stefan]

I realized how bad I worded that Mestizo part. No she isn't Mestizo, but some people thought she looked Mestizo despite being born in Europe. Just in case somebody read my post as she being Mestizo. :eek:

@difleha

I find reduced Bruenns and Alpinids hard to distinguish when not considering pigmentation differences. I'm going to say that this woman doesn't look too Cro-Magnoid though. She looks partially Cro-Magnoid(either reduced or not), and that is why I suspect Sub-Nordid.

[SilverFish]

I realized how bad I worded that Mestizo part. No she isn't Mestizo, but some people thought she looked Mestizo despite being born in Europe. Just in case somebody read my post as she being Mestizo. :eek:

@difleha

I find reduced Bruenns and Alpinids hard to distinguish when not considering pigmentation differences. I'm going to say that this woman doesn't look too Cro-Magnoid though. She looks partially Cro-Magnoid(either reduced or not), and that is why I suspect Sub-Nordid.
Is it because of her jaw that is not too wide?

Is that the only reason why you think she is subnordid?

[The Black Prince]

What do you mean Northern Cromagnids?

What you call Bruenn is a term used by C. Coon to describe the unreduced UP descendants in Europe. He used it for those on the British Island and those of the European mainland that where most common in Northern Europe. Other anthropologists from that age named the type f.i. Dalonordid (Von Eicksted) or Fälisch (Gunther) or Dalic (Paudler) or Faelid (Lundman).
Ein essence thay describe the same morphological type: broad to very broad large faces, large and long heads, large noses, fair and often rufous/freckled pigmentation, light to intermediate light eyes, rectangular eyesockets (often external eyefolds), etc..
Cromagnoid is the term that f.i. Schwidetzky used for these Proto-Europids.

Because of the McCulloch and the SNPA people here on fora's often use the term Bruenn for the Irish type and Dalofaelid for the continental types. But qua morphology there is not much difference between a Irish Cromagnid (what you I suppose call Bruenn) or a Germanic Cromagnid (what you call Faelid I suppose) when looking at skulls et such.




On a sidenote: Term as Cromagnid/Upper Paleolithic could better be replaced with Mesolithic Europid type (it is unsure if much of the old Upper Paleolithic geneitc material resides in nowadays European).

[Stefan]

Is it because of her jaw that is not too wide?

Is that the only reason why you think she is subnordid?

Well actually I didn't think of that, but I would say that could be another reason.

Looking at the listing on brunn from SNPA (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm), she really doesn't fit it imo.

1. Her nose is too high-bridged, as well as being thinner than your average cro-magnid.

2. Like you said, her jaw is less "square".

3. Her pigmentation is very light, and that could be due to Nordid admixture.

She could be partially brunn, but I would say she also has Nordid of some type too.

That is why I would point toward Sub-Nordid(Mostly Nordid with Alpinid admixture).

[SilverFish]

Well actually I didn't think of that, but I would say that could be another reason.

Looking at the listing on brunn from SNPA (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm), she really doesn't fit it imo.

1. Her nose is too high-bridged, as well as being thinner than your average cro-magnid.

2. Like you said, her jaw is less "square".

3. Her pigmentation is very light, and that could be due to Nordid admixture.

She could be partially brunn, but I would say she also has Nordid of some type too.

That is why I would point toward Sub-Nordid(Mostly Nordid with Alpinid admixture).
Well, she is part of the Fine Gael political party in Ireland and was born in Dublin, Ireland. Sub-nordid is non-existent there.

[Stefan]

Well, she is part of the Fine Gael political party in Ireland and was born in Dublin, Ireland. Sub-nordid is non-existent there.

Is that due to the low frequency of Alpinids? Then why did you classify her as Alpinoid at first? I guess I should re-evaluate my classification then. Nordid with Unreduced Cro-Magnid admixture, pulling off a similar "look" that you see in Sub-Nordids.

[SilverFish]

Is that due to the low frequency of Alpinids? Then why did you classify her as Alpinoid at first? I guess I should re-evaluate my classification then. Nordid with Unreduced Cro-Magnid admixture, pulling off a similar "look" that you see in Sub-Nordids.
I said alpiniod because she looks like she has a round head.

Alpinids are nowhere in Ireland though...

[The Black Prince]

Ahem for the record.. SNPA is a very informative site for those just venturing in the world of Physical Anthropology but it's classification system is based upon the personal views of a person(s) view about Phys. Anthropological literature.

If Agrippa, Glenlivet, (Vingul), Platypus, or others (as I) would make a site about it, the classifation system would be different per person.

What I mean is, SNPA isn't the holy book.;)

If you really want to know more about it I suggest reading some literature about it. Some titles might be available in your local library others are not so expensive to get on Amazon.com.

Here is a short selection:

E.F. Von Eickstedt, Rassenkunde und Rassengeschichte der Menschheit

C. Coon, The Races of Europe

J.R. Baker, Race

[Stefan]

I said alpiniod because she looks like she has a round head.

Alpinids are nowhere in Ireland though...

Some Brunns are borderline Brachycephalic from what SNPA says. So it is possible for her to be non-alpinid cro-magnoid type and have that "round" head.

@The Black Prince Thanks for letting us know. Do you have any better books or sites for non subjective classification?

Edit: Nevermind, you just did that. :) Thank you

[The Black Prince]

@the Black Prince Thanks for letting us know. Do you have any better books or sites for non subjective classification?
That is upon yourself to grasp only the good info out of them.. since every writer is always subjective.
Coon was a multiculturalist (half of his student asistents were afro-american) who believed in the multiple origin theory, Von Eicksted a progressivity ideologist and Baker a Darwinist.

[Goidelic]

I said alpiniod because she looks like she has a round head.

Alpinids are nowhere in Ireland though...

Alpinids exist through Irish Palatines (German immigrants from the Palatine) that immigrated to Limerick 300 years ago, few have assimilated into the local Gaelic Irish population. I doubt she is descended from one, but she looks like a reduced Bruenn-Borreby mix to me. ;)