Did You Know Hamas DOES NOT Support An Independent Palestine?

[Anglojew]

Many Westerners wrongly assume that Hamas is an organisation dedicated to Palestinian nationalism like Fatah. People assume Hamas supports an independent Palestinian state. They are simply incorrect.

Hamas, a is a Muslim Brotherhood organisation -with similar roots to other terrorist Jihadist groups such as ISIS- that only supports the destruction of Israel as a stepping stone towards a global Muslim "Caliphate."

For instance, in late 2013, the Hamas Interior Minister Called for a Third Intifada and Declared:


"We shall liberate our Al-Aqsa Mosque, and our cities and villages, as a prelude to the establishment of the future Islamic Caliphate."

Video here (http://www.ftrradio.com/2013/12/hamas-interior-minister-calls-for-third-intifada-and-declares-we-will-establish-islamic-caliphate/).

A Caliphate is defined as (please note in the map released by fellow Muslim Brotherhood derived group ISIS there is no independent Palestine, it is part of the province of Syria):


A caliphate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliphate) is an Islamic state led by a supreme religious and political leader known as a caliph – i.e. "successor" – to Muhammad. The succession of Muslim empires that have existed in the Muslim world are usually described as "caliphates". Conceptually, a caliphate represents a sovereign state of the entire Muslim faithful, (the Ummah), ruled by a caliph under Islamic law (sharia).

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/06/30/article-2674736-1F46221200000578-100_634x381.jpg

Hamas DOES NOT support an independent Palestinian state. Don't be fulled by propaganda from gullible or duplicitous "useful idiot" western journalists, academics and politicians into believing they do.

[Kale]

So what?

[Wadaad]

That map was definitely made by some amateur CIA islamophile...LOL @ khorasan including Sri Lanka, etc. Just lol at its simplistic propagandistic nature.

Anglojew, lets say a Caliphate was created that united the 22 member Arab states as well as the predominantly Islamic countries bordering it. Would you be against it if Israel was recognized?

[Immortal Technique]

dam anglo you hate dem eh

[Anglojew]

So what?

So, I'm sure 99% of Westerners assume they do. This is certainly the implication commonly made by the mainstream media.

[Ars Moriendi]

Must be proud of the fact Israeli intelligence boosted them decades ago in an effort to undermine the OPL.

[Anglojew]

That map was definitely made by some amateur CIA islamophile...LOL @ khorasan including Sri Lanka, etc. Just lol at its simplistic propagandistic nature.

Anglojew, lets say a Caliphate was created that united the 22 member Arab states as well as the predominantly Islamic countries bordering it. Would you be against it if Israel was recognized?

The map was released by ISIS.

http://www.sudantribune.com/local/cache-vignettes/L350xH230/isis_map_for_islamic_state-65f4c.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2674736/ISIS-militants-declare-formation-caliphate-Syria-Iraq-demand-Muslims-world-swear-allegiance.html

I think Israel should join the Arab League actually.

[Kale]

So, I'm sure 99% of Westerners assume they do. This is certainly the implication commonly made by the mainstream media.

They are Muslim. The assumption is they want to turn the world into one giant mosque.

[Wadaad]

No, I think Israel should join the Arab league actually.

I would support that if there was a One state solution (like Belgium) with two official languages (already the case), and it ceasing to exist as a "Jewish state".

[Anglojew]

They are Muslim. The assumption is they want to turn the world into one giant mosque.

True. You're obviously smarter than most.

[Anglojew]

I would support that if there was a One state solution (like Belgium) with two official languages (already the case), and it ceasing to exist as a "Jewish state".

Jews and Palestinians need to unite I agree. My peace plan, or a variation of it, is the best solution:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?118770-My-Middle-East-Peace-Plan%99-Part-4-A-Palestinian-Persective-of-how-Greater-Israel-will-work

The problem I have with your argument though, is you don't wish Israel's neighbours to cease being officially "Arab" and "Muslim" countries.

[Kale]

True. You're obviously smarter than most.

I remember in school we had a link to an English translated Quran online, with specific 'phrases' or 'verses' sorted into sections. There were sections for land rights and hospitality and such, but I think the biggest section was 'Interactions with non-Muslims' which was 90% "kill them".

[Immortal Technique]

Jew killing it everytime...

[Ars Moriendi]

It really irks me, how XXI Century Zionists can complain so much about Hamas when it's so well-known that Hamas' rise to power and to the position of leading organization of the Palestinian resistance, is precisely Israel's doing.

Even the most Western of journals can openly discuss it (like the Wall Stree Journal here), but conveniently, nobody seems to care one bit. The average citizen nowadays truly is a blind sheep:

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847

The only thing that they didn't expect was the military leadership of the Qassam Brigades would get Iranian assistance to actually be able to do something. The political branch of Hamas is however completely coopted, with Meshaal sleeping his days over in Doha.

---

The other thing that's worth asking, is why don't any other Palestinian organizations get any mention?

Israeli rhetoric always follow the same hollow logic "We don't hate Palestinians, we hate Hamas". So basically they're pretty swell with Islamic Jihad, and the militias linked to Fatah (name escapes me right now).

[Wadaad]

The map was released by ISIS.

http://www.sudantribune.com/local/cache-vignettes/L350xH230/isis_map_for_islamic_state-65f4c.jpg



The map is better (Sri lanka, India no longer part of Khorasan) but its still fucked.

1) "Land of Kinana" seriously, out of all the multitudes of names for Egypt in Islamic history, why this obscure reference?
2) Bilad al Habasha (Abyssinia) did not extend into Central/West Africa...that was known as Bilad al Sudan (amateur CIA mistake)
3) Maghreb does not extend in West Africa (refer to 2)
4) The part called "Orobpa" (Balkans) never called so in Islamic history, they had names like Al-Yonan for Greece and Al-Nimsa for Austria-Hungary.
5) LOL at Hejaz including the Nejd...this map was not made by an Arabian or even Arabic speaker


edit...OMFG Im a motherfucking genius. Look what I found: http://www.ibtimes.com/map-isis-5-year-conquest-plan-flawed-experts-say-1621422

I was just speculating, and here I was compeltely right...this map was made by White Supremacists. Geez, I scare myself sometimes how I can see through transparent lies.

You know, the more I stare into the abyss...the more I see that the 'elites' are imbeciles. May God protect us from their plots.

[Anglojew]

I remember in school we had a link to an English translated Quran online, with specific 'phrases' or 'verses' sorted into sections. There were sections for land rights and hospitality and such, but I think the biggest section was 'Interactions with non-Muslims' which was 90% "kill them".

I'm surprised they taught the truth and not a PC version. What country was this?

[Wadaad]

ABC News' headline read: “See the Terrifying ISIS Map Showing its 5-Year Expansion Plan.” It traced the map back not to the Sunni militant group, but to A3P, an American political party that promotes white supremacy. Other media organizations that published the map include The Daily Mail, The Blaze, a conservative news site founded by Glenn Beck, and iO9, a blog launched by Gawker Media in 2008.

http://www.ibtimes.com/map-isis-5-year-conquest-plan-flawed-experts-say-1621422

This thread made me more confident to trust my instincts, may God protect my fitra...http://i.imgur.com/at5tYXJ.gif

You are a cursed shaytan, anglojew...

[Anglojew]

It really irks me, how XXI Century Zionists can complain so much about Hamas when it's so well-known that Hamas' rise to power and to the position of leading organization of the Palestinian resistance, is precisely Israel's doing.

Even the most Western of journals can openly discuss it (like the Wall Stree Journal here), but conveniently, nobody seems to care one bit. The average citizen nowadays truly is a blind sheep:

How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847

The only thing that they didn't expect was the military leadership of the Qassam Brigades would get Iranian assistance to actually be able to do something. The political branch of Hamas is however completely coopted, with Meshaal sleeping his days over in Doha.

---

The other thing that's worth asking, is why don't any other Palestinian organizations get any mention?

Israeli rhetoric always follow the same hollow logic "We don't hate Palestinians, we hate Hamas". So basically they're pretty swell with Islamic Jihad, and the militias linked to Fatah (name escapes me right now).

Israel did fail to foresee the Shia-Sunni alliance in relation to Hamas.

Israelis aren't "swell" with IJ or the Fatah military wing.

[Ars Moriendi]

Israelis aren't "swell" with IJ or the Fatah military wing.

I know. I was just ironizing.
What I meant is, following the speeches of Israeli hawks you'd think that Islamic Jihad and Fatah's brigades either do not exist, or do not represent a problem for Israel. Disingenous position, that's my point.

[Kale]

I'm surprised they taught the truth and not a PC version. What country was this?

They didn't teach any of it. It was, here you go, here's the whole damn thing, look around for a bit. It was the U.S.

[Immortal Technique]

They are some punks

[Anglojew]

The map is better (Sri lanka, India no longer part of Khorasan) but its still fucked.

1) "Land of Kinana" seriously, out of all the multitudes of names for Egypt in Islamic history, why this obscure reference?
2) Bilad al Habasha (Abyssinia) did not extend into Central/West Africa...that was known as Bilad al Sudan (amateur CIA mistake)
3) Maghreb does not extend in West Africa (refer to 2)
4) The part called "Orobpa" (Balkans) never called so in Islamic history, they had names like Al-Yonan for Greece and Al-Nimsa for Austria-Hungary.
5) LOL at Hejaz including the Nejd...this map was not made by an Arabian or even Arabic speaker


edit...OMFG Im a motherfucking genius. Look what I found: http://www.ibtimes.com/map-isis-5-year-conquest-plan-flawed-experts-say-1621422

I was just speculating, and here I was compeltely right...this map was made by White Supremacists. Geez, I scare myself sometimes how I can see through transparent lies.

You know, the more I stare into the abyss...the more I see that the 'elites' are imbeciles. May God protect us from their plots.

I guess geography wasn't part of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's master's degree, and a PhD in Islamic studies, from the Islamic University of Baghdad.

[StonyArabia]

Yeah the map is retarded. India was never part of historical Khursan which was Eastern Persia and now spread into Afghanistan, Iran, Turkmenistan, and parts of Pakistan. The heart of Khursan is Afghanistan though. This why most Afghans say they are Khursani. Anyways as for Arabia it's divided into many regions. For example Hejaz is the Western coast of Arabia, Bahrain the eastern coast, Nejd the north central east or interior Arabian Desert, Nafaud near Jordan and Iraq, and of course Najran in the south, and Rub-Alkhali in southeast. Not only that the tribes and cultures of those region are different despite being all of the same genetic stock. However Hejaz has people from all over the world living there, and they tend to have a liberal culture to an extent. Well Nafaud people live mostly as Bedouins, same with Rub-Al khali, Nejad mostly people adopted Wahabism but are also Bedouins in origins, Najran Yemenite Ismaili, Zaidis. Bahrani/Baharana Shia Arabs of the Bani Qais tribe mostly 12ers. What a jack ass map.

[portusaus]

I don't care what they support, they are beasts but better than the Jews. And they are okay by me so long as they are willing to throw their bodies at the Jews until they eventually swarm them.

[portusaus]

Yeah the map is retarded. India was never part of historical Khursan which was Eastern Persia and now spread into Afghanistan, Iran, Turkmenistan, and parts of Pakistan. The heart of Khursan is Afghanistan though. This why most Afghans say they are Khursani. Anyways as for Arabia it's divided into many regions. For example Hejaz is the Western coast of Arabia, Bahrain the eastern coast, Nejd the north central east or interior Arabian Desert, Nafaud near Jordan and Iraq, and of course Najran in the south, and Rub-Alkhali in southeast. Not only that the tribes and cultures of those region are different despite being all of the same genetic stock. However Hejaz has people from all over the world living there, and they tend to have a liberal culture to an extent. Well Nafaud people live mostly as Bedouins, same with Rub-Al khali, Nejad mostly people adopted Wahabism but are also Bedouins in origins, Najran Yemenite Ismaili, Zaidis. Bahrani/Baharana Shia Arabs of the Bani Qais tribe mostly 12ers. What a jack ass map.

Lol@ seriously commenting on a map some inbreed slapped together in MS paint

[StonyArabia]

I don't care what they support, they are beasts but better than the Jews. And they are okay by me so long as they are willing to throw their bodies at the Jews until they eventually swarm them.

LOL dude.

[Wadaad]

€
Lol@ seriously commenting on a map some inbreed slapped together in MS paint

That map's been plastered all over mainstream media since fuckin June. I always felt uneasy about it...and the devil Anglojew, led me to its source, and to the source of my unease. May God steer us to the right path

[Ars Moriendi]

I guess geography wasn't part of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's master's degree, and a PhD in Islamic studies, from the Islamic University of Baghdad.

We actually know Al-Baghdadi is some poor bot programmed in Guantanamo and launched into the world with 30 million USD to wreak havoc.
The real question left to confirm is if his real identity is indeed Simon Elliott as some sources state.

[portusaus]

Dude you look like a Kuwaiti guy I know, so you are beast to

too*

Remember- the other 'o' wants to be a part of the word too!

[Anglojew]

We actually know Al-Baghdadi is some poor bot programmed in Guantanamo and launched into the world with 30 million USD to wreak havoc.
The real question left to confirm is if his real identity is indeed Simon Elliott as some sources state.

He dropped this

http://socioecohistory.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/cia_agent_badge-abu_bakr_al_baghdadi_aka_ali_baba_hq_langley_virgi nia.jpg?w=500&h=321

[Styrian Mujo]

I think they have an Arab Islamist nationalism thing going on wich actually makes more sense than being Palestinian nationalists.

[Anglojew]

I think they have an Arab Islamist nationalism thing going on wich actually makes more sense than being Palestinian nationalists.

They're pan-Islamic not pan-Arabists.

[Styrian Mujo]

They're pan-Islamic not pan-Arabists.
Do Levantine Arabs still have tribal identities like Saudis?

[Anglojew]

Do Levantine Arabs still have tribal identities like Saudis?

Yes, they do. Randomguy could answer the question in more depth than me.

[Wadaad]

Do Levantine Arabs still have tribal identities like Saudis?

Got any questions re: Israel and Jews for me bruv?

[Maleficent]

I think they have an Arab Islamist nationalism thing going on wich actually makes more sense than being Palestinian nationalists.Of course they(Hamas and ISIS) are Islamist nationalists, they are Islamic extremist terrorists; real Palestinian nationalism is secular.

Do Levantine Arabs still have tribal identities like Saudis?All people are tribal. But no, the Levantine Arabs were never 'tribal Arab' in the same way Peninsular Arabs are.

[Wadaad]

Of course they(Hamas and ISIS) are Islamist nationalists, they are Islamic extremist terrorists; real Palestinian nationalism is secular.
All people are tribal. But no, the Levantine Arabs were never 'tribal Arab' in the same way Peninsular Arabs are.

Umm, the Banu Ghassan were not a tribal confederation?

[Styrian Mujo]

I'm sorry to disappoint you AJ but I think Arabs have better claim on that land than AJ's but on the other hand it would be nice if Jews had a piece of land for themselves.

[Styrian Mujo]

Of course they(Hamas and ISIS) are Islamist nationalists, they are Islamic extremist terrorists; real Palestinian nationalism is secular.
All people are tribal. But no, the Levantine Arabs were never 'tribal Arab' in the same way Peninsular Arabs are.
Do Arabs have well defined ethnic subgroups or have national identities? On some mid eastern ethnic distribution maps saudi Arabs,Egyptian Arabs and Leavntine Arabs are listed as the same ethnic group.
50165

[Maleficent]

Umm, the Banu Ghassan were not a tribal confederation?

They were more accurately assimilated into the Greek/Aramaic culture of the Levant upon arrival there, and aren't even accepted as any sort of official Arab-tribe right now in modern times. So much propaganda.

The first Christian communities in Roman Palestine were Aramaic speaking Messianic Jews and Latin and Greek speaking Romans and Greeks, who were in part descendants from previous settlers of the regions, such as Syro-Phoenicians, Arameans, Greeks, Persians, Hebrews, Nabataeans and Arabs.

Contrary to the rest of oriental Christians, the vast majority of Palestinian Christians followed the Byzantine Christianity of the emperors after the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD, and were known by other Syrian Christian as Melkites (followers of the king). The Melkites were heavily Hellenised in the following centuries abandoning their distinct Western Aramaic languages in favour of Greek. By the 7th century, Jerusalem and Byzantine Palestine became the epicentre of Greek culture in the orient.

Soon after the Muslim conquests, the Melkites began abandoning Greek for Arabic, a process which made them the most Arabicised Christians in the Levant.

Most Palestinian Christians nowadays see themselves as culturally and linguistically Arab Christians with ancestors dating back to the first followers of Christ. They claim descent from a mixture of Jews and Gentiles who converted to Christianity in the first few centuries AD, Romans, Ghassanids, Byzantines, and Crusaders. The region comprising modern Israel and State of Palestine is considered the Holy Land by Christians. Major Christian holy cities such as Bethlehem, Nazareth and Jerusalem are located in Israel and the State of Palestine http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christians#Background_and_early_histor y

[Maleficent]

Do Arabs have well defined ethnic subgroups or have national identities? On some mid eastern ethnic distribution maps saudi Arabs,Egyptian Arabs and Leavntine Arabs are listed as the same ethnic group.
50165
Unfortunately I don't think well defined ethnic subgroups since there's so much Arabism in modern-day MENA, even moreso than there was in the rest of history. National identities, most definitely. Stop asking stupid questions and your link doesn't work.

[Anglojew]

I'm sorry to disappoint you AJ but I think Arabs have better claim on that land than AJ's but on the other hand it would be nice if Jews had a piece of land for themselves.

You're entitled to your opinion.

[Wadaad]

They were more accurately assimilated into the Greek/Aramaic culture of the Levant upon arrival there, and aren't even accepted as any sort of official Arab-tribe right now in modern times. So much propaganda.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_Christians#Background_and_early_histor y

They were merceneries and cannon fodder...the Byzantines did not like or trust them (Arabs were seen as treacherous by both Byzantium and Persia), but used them as clients (like Saudi Arabia, Jordan is client of USA today)

The Ghassanid's own histriocity claimed they were migrants from Yemen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids#Migration_from_Yemen

[Petros Houhoulis]

That map was definitely made by some amateur CIA islamophile...LOL @ khorasan including Sri Lanka, etc. Just lol at its simplistic propagandistic nature.

Anglojew, lets say a Caliphate was created that united the 22 member Arab states as well as the predominantly Islamic countries bordering it. Would you be against it if Israel was recognized?

Next thing you are going to tell us is that all those people in Iraq and Syria and decapitating themselves!!!

Wadaad, ISIS are nuts, and your only problem with them is that map of theirs? Doesn't anything else bothering you with them to the point of declare them un-Islamic? Their illiteracy with maps is your problem and your anxiety in the world?

[Petros Houhoulis]

The map is better (Sri lanka, India no longer part of Khorasan) but its still fucked.

1) "Land of Kinana" seriously, out of all the multitudes of names for Egypt in Islamic history, why this obscure reference?
2) Bilad al Habasha (Abyssinia) did not extend into Central/West Africa...that was known as Bilad al Sudan (amateur CIA mistake)
3) Maghreb does not extend in West Africa (refer to 2)
4) The part called "Orobpa" (Balkans) never called so in Islamic history, they had names like Al-Yonan for Greece and Al-Nimsa for Austria-Hungary.
5) LOL at Hejaz including the Nejd...this map was not made by an Arabian or even Arabic speaker


edit...OMFG Im a motherfucking genius. Look what I found: http://www.ibtimes.com/map-isis-5-year-conquest-plan-flawed-experts-say-1621422

I was just speculating, and here I was compeltely right...this map was made by White Supremacists. Geez, I scare myself sometimes how I can see through transparent lies.

You know, the more I stare into the abyss...the more I see that the 'elites' are imbeciles. May God protect us from their plots.

The most populous Islamic country in the world, Indonesia, is missing, and yet even you failed to notice that! Maybe you are an ignorant agent of the CIA too...

[Petros Houhoulis]

They were merceneries and cannon fodder...the Byzantines did not like or trust them (Arabs were seen as treacherous by both Byzantium and Persia), but used them as clients (like Saudi Arabia, Jordan is client of USA today)

The Ghassanid's own histriocity claimed they were migrants from Yemen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghassanids#Migration_from_Yemen

Wadaad, you really have no idea who the Palestinians were originally. Don't even try to get into details, because history for you goes only as far as 14 centuries back...

[Wadaad]

Next thing you are going to tell us is that all those people in Iraq and Syria and decapitating themselves!!!

Wadaad, ISIS are nuts, and your only problem with them is that map of theirs? Doesn't anything else bothering you with them to the point of declare them un-Islamic? Their illiteracy with maps is your problem and your anxiety in the world?


99% of what you hear or see about ISIS is theater. As for Palestinian Chrstians this is established history from your own Byzantine chronicles, dumb fuck...

[Petros Houhoulis]

99% of what you hear or see about ISIS is theater. As for Palestinian Chrstians this is established history from your own Byzantine chronicles, dumb fuck...

I don't think that the decapitations are theater, or the mass killings are rapes of Yezidis. I do not trust Yankee propaganda to follow the theatre. I never said that the Palestinian Christians did not exist. I asked you for the ORIGINAL Palestinians, long before Christianity or Islam. Unfortunately, your knowledge does not (and cannot) expand before the rise of Islam...

[Selurong]

That map was definitely made by some amateur CIA islamophile...LOL @ khorasan including Sri Lanka, etc. Just lol at its simplistic propagandistic nature.

Anglojew, lets say a Caliphate was created that united the 22 member Arab states as well as the predominantly Islamic countries bordering it. Would you be against it if Israel was recognized?

I actually agree with you in this one. Sri Lanka was not Islamic terrritory even at the peak of the Muslim-Turkish Mughal Empire. They are mostly made up of Pala refugees who fled the Islamization of Buddhist India.

So as a balanced observer. That's really a hyped up map there.