Edit Racial Core of Europe

[Breedingvariety]

Edit racial core and outer layers of Europe:

[Osweo]

"Show me yours, I'll show you mine!" :p

[The Ripper]

That map leaves out the best bits! :D

[Breedingvariety]

Racial core as I see it:

[Murphy]

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3997/bahaha.png

I just like the colours.

[Inese]

You use no good map as a working basis, you know? Scandinavia and Iceland are totally missing on it! :rolleyes: But okay, i used yours.

All in the green half circle is the racial core Europe for me, all in the yellow half circle is the outer layer and the rest something else!

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9437/forcoremein.jpg

[Tabiti]

Major racial cores (not very exact but...):

[jerney]

All in the green half circle is the racial core Europe for me, all in the yellow half circle is the outer layer and the rest something else!

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9437/forcoremein.jpg

lol

[Agrippa]

I made a more complete map:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4437&d=1271865660

Red lines: Original European Europids distribution by genetic borders

Blue quadrat, primary core area.

Green: Original Europid/Caucasoid habitat

Blue: Significant Europoid influences in the past or presence

What changed most is in the East because of the Turko-Mongol expansions, which ruined Indoeuropean Central Asia. An original core area of the Europid race.

Main centres-distribution of the progressive racial forms:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4438&stc=1&d=1271866019

yellow = Nordid
red = Mediterranid
green = Iranid
grey = Arabid
orange = Nordindid-Gracilindid
blue = Aethiopid
purple = Sinid

Also compare with:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11365

[Ibericus]

What is 'Racial core' supposed to mean ?

[Murphy]

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/1725/aryanrigins.png

[Breedingvariety]

What is 'Racial core' supposed to mean ?
Imagine where the last place you wanna nuke. That's where the core is.;)

[Murphy]

Imagine where the last place you wanna nuke. That's where the core is.;)

Spain, Portugal, north-of-Rome Italy, southern France.

[Liffrea]

Originally Posted by Breedingvariety
Imagine where the last place you wanna nuke. That's where the core is.

What anywhere I am?:confused:

[Ibericus]

Imagine where the last place you wanna nuke. That's where the core is.;)

wtf ?:confused:

[Murphy]

Spain, Portugal, north-of-Rome Italy, southern France.

Oh, and I consider Ireland to be Spain due to our being subject to the Spanish Crown :D!

[Amapola]

:bowlol::rotfl:jump0000::icon_yes:

[Osweo]

http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/1725/aryanrigins.png

Pappy, that theory for the supremacy of the Angles is now rather outdated, I'm afraid. Modern scholarship favours the existence of two colonies of Godmen, reflecting an ancient schism in the primaeval pantheon. The following map shows in rough form the extent of Hyperborean and Atlantean racial influences and, as scientists have remarked, the unique position of Old Angeln is such that there and only there did the two traits recombine to reproduce the Gods of Old...
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/4453/for20core.jpg

[Don]

You use no good map as a working basis, you know? Scandinavia and Iceland are totally missing on it! :rolleyes: But okay, i used yours.

All in the green half circle is the racial core Europe for me, all in the yellow half circle is the outer layer and the rest something else!

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9437/forcoremein.jpg

:p:p:p:p:p

Great work. Plato, Socrates, Galileo, Cervantes, Da Vinci, Pizarro, De Lezo, Picasso...(INFINITE LIST HERE) are out of that "Core" of your Europe.

Funny girl.:thumbs up

[Amapola]

:p:p:p:p:p

Great work. Plato, Socrates, Galileo, Cervantes, Picasso...(INFINITE LIST HERE) is out of that "Core" of yours.

Funny girl.:thumbs up

That's funny, but what's even funnier is that she's speaking about "races" :embarrassed

[Svanhild]

The racial core of Europe isn't the same as the cultural core. In my book, there are different racial cores. Truth be told, it's impossible to encircle one single core due to the fact that it's an individual stance and based on personal priorities. Slavs have their core, Germanics have their core, Romanics have their core.

Being German and Germanic, my subjective racial core of the people I care the most is congruent with following linguistical map. Spaniards or Italians would place their individual core more southerly, as a matter of course. Cristiano Viejo proves it once again. :wink

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/34/2034-004-9211C072.gif

[Murphy]

[. . .]

Is this what passes as scholarship in modern university?! The Hyperborean people were definitively proven not to be of divine origin when Jjäbokkrjäs the Fire-Giver killed Abhayankara the Serpent-tongued in ritual combat using Aryan-magic. Abhayankara, if he was a true divine one from Varanasi (the original home planet and solar systerm of the Aryans), would not have been effected by the magic of the Aryan Nordids.

No, it is clearly obvious that the Hyperborean people were a mixed racial people. I will not deny that they had some Aryan-Atlantean blood in them from the exile of Bjönyakkeiíre the Despised-One who led his family & tribe into exile when he attempted to steal the Golden Jewel of Varanasi (Jjäbokkrjäs's daughter, said to have perfect breats and who's female ejaculatory fluids gave her people drink in the Long-drought of the Dark Night (when the Aryans floated in the void of space until coming to Atlantis)). But the prevalence of dark-hair and dark-eyes amongst the Hyperboreans speak greatly of their miscegenation with the Apemen. Whether they were of the High-Apes or the Low-Apes, that is lost to history though the dominance of a most Aryan-like phenotypical quality around the Hyperboreans speak fo Higher-Ape miscegenation.

[Don]

The racial core of Europe isn't the same as the cultural core. In my book, there are different racial cores. Truth be told, it's impossible to encircle one single core due to the fact that it's an individual stance and based on personal priorities. Slavs have their core, Germanics have their core, Romanics have their core.

Being German and Germanic, my subjective racial core of the people I care the most is congruent with following linguistical map. Spaniards or Italians would place their individual core more southerly, as a matter of course. Cristiano Viejo proves it once again. :wink

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/34/2034-004-9211C072.gif

Quite simplistic.
First, classify spaniards as romanics, ignoring that the core of Spaniards are Iberian (mediterranean shore) and Celtic (Castile and rest of Spain) -in my opinion those 2 ethnias where inheritors of old proto-iberian dwellers.
Secondly insisting in classify Spaniards as southern when they are just much more west than south from your germany and in a non-relative (as happens with south) but Real west end of Eurasia and old known world. (There is a big lake called atlantic... you know...)

This is just another purulent sign of the obsolete, senseless and Made not in Europe nordicism that disturbs your criteria when relating to Spain.
:embarrassed

Maybe nordicists and pangermanists need for support and associations, but don't extrapolate that to this old proud breed its mine.

No, Spain's core is not in romans, neither in visigoths. Spain's core is in Spain, in our amazingly old worshiped wombs* of Mother.
http://annalesgeoehistoria.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/altamira.jpg
Altamira, 15.000 years ago. Spain.

[Osweo]

That's funny, but what's even funnier is that she's speaking about "races" :embarrassed
I'll say! :D

I took the liberty of making a map of Inesoid racial distribution:
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4453/for20core.jpg

'Inesoid' is not a great name for this type however, for the most commonly cited first name of its members is Tanya... :p

This is just another purulent sign of the obsolete, senseless and Made not in Europe nordicism that disturbs your criteria when relating to Spain.
NO IT ISN'T. Read the girl's posts. She just made a map of people she feels are like herself. Unsurprisingly, that doesn't include you, who are miles and miles away, behind several mountain ranges!

[Amapola]

NO IT ISN'T. Read the girl's posts. She just made a map of people she feels are like herself. Unsurprisingly, that doesn't include you, who are miles and miles away, behind several mountain ranges!

I am still suspicious that her idea of Europe does not include some of us....

:D:wink

[Svanhild]

You're a Spanish version of Jarl, Cristiano. :wink Keep cool, I've nothing against Spain and respect their culture and history. El Cid is a name well known even here in Germany. So stop attacking everyone who isn't worshiping Spain as the master country. ;)
Quite simplistic.
First, classify spaniards as romanics, ignoring that the core of Spaniards are Iberian (mediterranean shore) and Celtic (Castile and rest of Spain) -in my opinion those 2 ethnias where inheritors of old proto-iberian dwellers.
Iberische Halbinsel, right. You're the expert on Spain but the fact remains that there's no one in my country who doesn't consider Spain as a Southern European country. If you like it or not plays no role. Spain is both a Southern European and a mediterranean country in our books. Literally.



This is just another purulent sign of the obsolete, senseless and Made not in Europe nordicism that disturbs your criteria when relating to Spain.
:embarrassed
That's nonsense. I have never ever questioned the Europeaness of Spaniards hence you can holster your weapon.


Maybe nordicists and pangermanists need for support and associations, but don't extrapolate that to this old proud breed its mine.

Truth be told, you don't differ that much from fiery Nordicists, being a Sudicist yourself. Or Iberist. :cool:

[Osweo]

I am still suspicious that her idea of Europe does not include some of us....

:D:wink

What do you care? You're Irish now. :p

[Amapola]

What do you care? You're Irish now. :p

But aren't Irish the Blacks of Europe? :( :D

[Osweo]

But aren't Irish the Blacks of Europe? :( :D

We sho are!

WORD, Sistah! :thumb001:

Er.... um.... Zippedy Doodah?

[Murphy]

The Beginning

Varanasi.

The original homeworld of the Aryan-Atlantean. The Aryan came to be known as the Atlantean when, after the Long-drought of the Dark Night, they arrived from their homeworld Varanasi in it Atlantis. Of course at the time the Higher-Apes had a primitive society on the continent. It was due to that primitiveness that the Higher-Apes of Gaggabukkanaha (to give Atlantis its aboriginal-name) eventually found themselves on the end of the Spears of the Father-Sun. The High-Apes could just not accept that they would not be allowed to touch the Seed of Arya (Atlantean women, descended of Arya, The Tri-Breasted). After the first War of Nakkuhga (aboriginal-tongue for "west"), the Higher-Apes was driven from Atlantis and the Aryan began to cleanse the soil of their foul presence and build a new civilisation.

Before we move on to discuss the building of the Atlantean civilisation under Jjäbokkrjäs the Fire-Giver, it would do well to speak further on the Dark Night and the leaving of Varanasi. Below is the only known recording that survives from a first-hand account, though broken in many areas, of the Dark Night, dealing specifically with the Long-drought:


[. . .] she [The Golden Jewel, Jjäbonnryäi] would invite the women into her chambers where they would help her reach clima [. . .] The women would pour the fluids down their breasts. The men would use their tongues to [. . .] the children of course were not exposed to such carnal activities. Owing to the tradition of breast-feeding children up until puberty. Though Jjäbonnryäi was known to keep young girls who had just matured to puber [. . .] and it is due to Jjäbonnr[yäi] and her amazing vag [. . .] and so we survived the long drought.

Excerpts from the Oera Linda. I'll type up the rest later.

[jerney]

who gives a fuck

[Radojica]

...

[Don]

Truth be told, you don't differ that much from fiery Nordicists, being a Sudicist yourself. Or Iberist. :cool:

I differ much from them, mainly because I am not a sudicist, but a good son who worships parents and ancestors that, in my case, are linked to this land for many many centuries... not to Italy or Greece. We are not like you in this "associate tendencies" found in nordicism. Castilians have NOTHING in common with Italians, neither or your idea of "southern", neither with central or nordic Europe. No one.

Iberist sounds nice but, despite my breed comes from inland, not mediterranean, I can not stand the lack of importance that some ignorants give to the Mediterranean element, daring to devalue the Pilars of European Mind and culture, that are found In Greece or Roma, "southern countries".:p

Anyway, following your words that compare me with nordicists in a Iberian variant, I'll point you something that marks a radical difference between both, enough to make the comparison senseless:

My -as you call it- Iberianism (include here, of course Spain, from Altamira to Picasso's Guernica, from Manila to La Habana, from El Quijote to the Circumnavigation of this World) is supported by Historical Facts for thousands of years.

In the other hand, the nordicists... :p well... what can I say? :rolleyes2:
...some of them are great fantasy writers, staying in the shadows of history, imperiums and arts is the motivation, yes... Great fable tellers, in particular recently.

-I understand the conflict that the figurant has with the main characters. Rewrite the film, that's the idea.-

Oh, as we say "Las comparaciones son odiosas".

[Óttar]

Castilians have NOTHING in common with Italians,

:pound:

[Pallantides]

You use no good map as a working basis, you know? Scandinavia and Iceland are totally missing on it! :rolleyes: But okay, i used yours.

All in the green half circle is the racial core Europe for me, all in the yellow half circle is the outer layer and the rest something else!

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9437/forcoremein.jpg

What in the gods names makes Northern Europeans more "racially European" than Southern Europeans?
:rolleyes2:

[Turkophagos]

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1594/greecemani1.png

[The Ripper]

What in the gods names makes Northern Europeans more "racially European" than Southern Europeans?
:rolleyes2:

The entire idea of single European racial core, where people are racially more European than others, is quite ridiculous.

[Lulletje Rozewater]

The core of civilization.:D Kleitrappers and dykes(????)

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/3307013/1024/Picture-Box/23.jpg (http://picturepush.com/public/3307013)

[Agrippa]

The core of civilization

I know it wasnt meant serious, but there is some truth in it because of the Frankish Empire/core area and its importance for the occidental world. That has little to do with race though.

[Inese]

:p:p:p:p:p

Great work. Plato, Socrates, Galileo, Cervantes, Da Vinci, Pizarro, De Lezo, Picasso...(INFINITE LIST HERE) are out of that "Core" of your Europe.

Funny girl.:thumbs up
Hello? :confused:The question was the racial core, you know?? And the core in my view are Northern Slavic people , Germanic people and Baltic people. The yellow layer are Europeans too but not the core or the heart of Europe. You dont like my opinion?? Okay no problem.


I'll say! :D

I took the liberty of making a map of Inesoid racial distribution:
http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4453/for20core.jpg

'Inesoid' is not a great name for this type however, for the most commonly cited first name of its members is Tanya... :p
Hmm i am sorry but your Inesoid map is wrong! :embarrassed The red area has to go from our Baltic countries to Germany, czech republic and Scandinavian countries.

What in the gods names makes Northern Europeans more "racially European" than Southern Europeans?
:rolleyes2:
Southern Europeans had influence of foreigners in the history ---- Turks or Moors. We can discuss about it for ages but my view is my view, okay? The question was to show our racial core of Europe and i answered with my view. And people who answer with "lol " are off topic.

[Arrow Cross]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9437/forcoremein.jpg
You cut my city in half...!

Unfortunately, I was born on the eastern (yellow area) side. :(

[Absinthe]

Unfortunately, I was born on the eastern (yellow area) side. :(
And that's why you're Nordish ;)

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9003/paneuropafuck.png

[Radojica]

And the core in my view are Northern Slavic people , Germanic people and Baltic people. The yellow layer are Europeans too but not the core or the heart of Europe.

I believe that you heard for mass migration of people in VI and VII century A.D. Northern Slavic people came from the same region and spread throughout Europe, same as Western or Southern Slavs. Now, knowing that I could fit in any Northern Baltic or Slavic country, where does that place me knowing that Serbia is Southern country, in your humble opinion :confused:? Bear in mind that my phenotype is the most common among Serbs. Swarthy Serbs compose maybe 30% of all Serbian population ;).


Southern Europeans had influence of foreigners in the history ---- Turks or Moors. We can discuss about it for ages but my view is my view, okay? The question was to show our racial core of Europe and i answered with my view. And people who answer with "lol " are off topic.

Cultural influence yes as you can see in this video HQZ6Tp870FI (folk wearings among Serbs in XIX century), genetically or any other no.

[lei.talk]

Arrow Cross http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=199650#post199650) Unfortunately, I was born on the eastern (yellow area) side. :(

the athénienne http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=199651#post199651) And that's why you're Nordish ;)


huns on this side? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Budapest_SPOT_1022.jpg/250px-Budapest_SPOT_1022.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest) nords on this side?

[Arrow Cross]

huns on this side? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Budapest_SPOT_1022.jpg/250px-Budapest_SPOT_1022.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest) nords on this side?
Yes. I still remember those nasty arrow-rains we used to receive every thursday evening. But then we moved over and everything got hunnishly fine.

[lei.talk]

Yes. I still remember those nasty arrow-rains we used to receive every thursday evening. But then we moved over and everything got hunnishly fine.would you say
the germanic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns#20th-century_use_in_reference_to_Germans) majority - historically - on the western side of the river (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube)
accounts for the noticeably higher quality of life?

[Arrow Cross]

would you say
the germanic majority - historically - on the western side of the river (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube)
:confused:


accounts for the noticeably higher quality of life?
Noticably higher? Huh? It has more rich buildings, castles, palaces and so on for the simple reason of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buda_hills.

Pest is a flatland.

[Aramis]

I used the most recent scientific methods to determine the very core of racial Europe and it's opposition.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4460&stc=1&d=1271938168

[Ibericus]

Southern Europeans had influence of foreigners in the history ---- Turks or Moors. We can discuss about it for ages but my view is my view, okay? The question was to show our racial core of Europe and i answered with my view. And people who answer with "lol " are off topic.

And northern/eastern Europeans have mongol influence. Genetically, southwestern europeans (Iberia, Italy and France) are not less european, even I would say more european. The racial core of Europe, is IBERIA, since after the ice age refuge, the people there (mtDNA H1 and H3) spread through all Europe, specially Western Europe, and now this haplogroups are the most common in all western/northern Europe

[Falkata]

I´m still lost about what does "racial core" means exactly
People just say that the core is where they are from :confused:

[Äike]

And northern/eastern Europeans have mongol influence. Genetically, southwestern europeans (Iberia, Italy and France) are not less european, even I would say more european. The racial core of Europe, is IBERIA, since after the ice age refuge, the people there (mtDNA H1 and H3) spread through all Europe, specially Western Europe, and now this haplogroups are the most common in all western/northern Europe

Hungary has the highest amount of H1+H3. Last time I checked the map, Hungary wasn't in Western- nor Northern Europe.

[Ibericus]

Hungary has the highest amount of H1+H3. Last time I checked the map, Hungary wasn't in Western- nor Northern Europe.
That's wrong. Iberia has the highest amount of H1+H3. Anyways, this haplogroups are common in ALL Europe, but mostly in Western/Northern europe.

http://www.celtiberia.net/imagftp/im147092557-Extension%20Subhaplogrupos%20H1%20y%20H3.JPG

[Osweo]

You cut my city in half...!

Unfortunately, I was born on the eastern (yellow area) side. :(
Ah, so racially speaking you are as peripheral to Europe as some Mongoloid dog from Velikie Luki... ;)

Hello? :confused:The question was the racial core, you know?? And the core in my view are Northern Slavic people , Germanic people and Baltic people.
You are being poked fun at (in a jovial way!) for not having produced a 'racial' map, but one which was highly predictable and based on politics, language and culture.

Hmm i am sorry but your Inesoid map is wrong! :embarrassed The red area has to go from our Baltic countries to Germany, czech republic and Scandinavian countries.
There ARE Czechs and Germans who look like you, but if we really look closely at your traits, then these will be of an insignificant minority in those lands. Your racial type can be found in many places, but is of greater significance in the areas I highlighted. It's hardly very 'scientific' how I did it, but it's my honest impression from years of travelling through Eastern Europe. :)

And people who answer with "lol " are off topic.
But 'racial core' is a VERY 'lol' idea. It's relatively meaningless. Our new member 'Breeding Variety' has a lot of work to do to define it, and then explain why it's even WORTH looking at. As such, I and others responded with sarcasm.

[Äike]

That's wrong. Iberia has the highest amount of H1+H3.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml

1. Hungary (35) 2. Norway (30) 3. Spain (28) 4. Portugal (26)

[Ibericus]

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtml

1. Hungary (35) 2. Norway (30) 3. Spain (28) 4. Portugal (26)

Well, it coulde be. Depending on the sources...As you can see in the maps, Iberia peaks in both H1 and H3.. but anyways H1 & H3 are of Iberian origin that's the whole point.

[Pallantides]

Southern Europeans had influence of foreigners in the history ---- Turks or Moors. We can discuss about it for ages but my view is my view, okay? The question was to show our racial core of Europe and i answered with my view. And people who answer with "lol " are off topic.

And Northern Europeans have infulence from Uralic peoples, large parts of Scandinavia was populated by hunter gatherer people similar to Finno-Ugric's before the Indo-Europeans arrived.

[Bari]

Lol "racial core of Europe". So, according to some people here, certain regions and people are defining what is the European look and mentality? All regions of Europe are making up the "core" regardless of how little the thought is appreciated by regional chauvinists. There are regions and countries i don't feel much attached to nor like very much, but questioning their Europeanness based on what really is personal grugdes is low.

[Ibericus]

While the mongoloid influence in Northern Europe has been substantial, the moorish influence in southern Europea has been minimal. Genetically, southwestern countries like Spain or France are more European than for example Baltic countries...

[Radojica]

Well, Europe and the rest of the world are going to disappear soon, so its not important anyway,mwuaahahahaha

:evilb::evil:vampire:dev3

http://marklhitchcock.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/2012-Doomsday1.jpg

[Bari]

While the mongoloid influence in Northern Europe has been substantial, the moorish influence in southern Europea has been minimal. Genetically, southwestern countries like Spain or France are more European than for example Baltic countries...So what the fuck is "racial core" ?? On what do we base this racial core ? Stupid thread..

- I believe both Moorish influence and Mongoloid influence is being overexagerated by extremes on both sides. Both of theese mentioned influences are old and outbred by locals to an extent its not noticeable/noteworthy.

[Radojica]

- I believe both Moorish influence and Mongoloid influence is being overexagerated by extremes on both sides. Both of theese mentioned influences are old and outbred by locals to an extent its not noticeable/noteworthy.

Shut up, you bloody Turk :eviltongue:! Obey now :worship: and maybe I'll ask gods to spare your life in 2012

[Bari]

Shut up, you bloody Turk :eviltongue:! Obey now :worship: and maybe I'll ask gods to spare your life in 2012

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5863/2395ae24.jpg

[Radojica]

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/5863/2395ae24.jpg

http://www.crossfitethos.com/uploads/66da44bb4504fd02678dedd8c1952117.jpg

[Osweo]

While the mongoloid influence in Northern Europe has been substantial, the moorish influence in southern Europea has been minimal. Genetically, southwestern countries like Spain or France are more European than for example Baltic countries...

Iberia, can you not see that you are the mirror image of the fanatics in the north?

[Ibericus]

Iberia, can you not see that you are the mirror image of the fanatics in the north?
No, because I am based on genetics and history facts, while they are based on fantasies, blondism and such. So, what is 'racial core' ?? Im still waiting for an answer...

[Radojica]

No, because I am based on genetics and history facts, while they are based on fantasies, blondism and such. So, what is 'racial core' ?? Im still waiting for an answer...

http://cdn.webecoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/6-halo-or-sundog.jpg

[Arrow Cross]

This thread =

http://www.twolia.com/blogs/zoboxrox/files/2009/07/dog-chasing-tail.jpg

[Breedingvariety]

All regions of Europe are making up the "core" regardless of how little the thought is appreciated by regional chauvinists.
There can't be many cores of one entity. Nor whole entity can be the core of itself. It goes against the definition of core.

Negating core lands of race/ people is the same as saying all people are the same. Even nationalism is assertion of ethnic distinctness from the rest of humanity. Keeping nation from mingling with other nations shapes racial character of a nation.

But 'racial core' is a VERY 'lol' idea. It's relatively meaningless. Our new member 'Breeding Variety' has a lot of work to do to define it, and then explain why it's even WORTH looking at. As such, I and others responded with sarcasm.
This thread was meant half serious and half as entertainment. Participation in a thread shows there is some value in it for participants. You tell us what you make of it.

For me racial core represents area where by my subjective assessment racially good population is concentrated. I'm not in a mood to explain it deeper.

[Osweo]

There can't be many cores of one entity. Nor whole entity can be the core of itself. It goes against the definition of core.
But Europe isn't really an entity, from a racial point of view. It's a tightly packed bundle of several interacting racial entities, without a CLEAR divide from Eurasia to the east and southeast. Therefore it is without purpose to find a core.

For me racial core represents area where by my subjective assessment racially good population is concentrated.
And we will all be subjective too, and draw rings around our own countries! What a waste of time!

IF, hypothetically, it was proven to me that Europe's racial core was OUTSIDE the region that I am from, and you then tried to enact actual policies based on this, to 'preserve' your core, that might have negative implications for people like me, you're not going to get any support from me.

[Tabiti]

Again...
Seriously, people, what do you win if you can prove Moorish, Turkish or Mongoloid influence in the nation of your web opponent?

[Radojica]

Again...
Seriously, people, what do you win if you can prove Moorish, Turkish or Mongoloid influence in the nation of your web opponent?

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/1178832369_snowman_blow_job_picture_gallery.jpg

Is that something like this :icon_ask:? You think its there, but actually one ray of light and its gone and then you realize that was all delusion and for nothing...

[Amapola]

Aren't we all from the Middle East anyway, and previously from Africa?

I like to think myself from tthe Middle East

http://www.orihueladigital.es/orihuela/san_bartolome_fiestas_moros_190807_3_ok.JPG

http://album.cuesta-arriba.es/albums/2006/moros%20y%20cristianos%20crevillent/domingo%20moros/091-moros-y-cristianos-crevillent-social-desfile-fiesta-alicante-retrato.jpg

:D

;)

[Radojica]

I just want the truth. That latvian idiot girl doesn't even know the history and genetic make up of her own counry, so Before talking about the minimal moorish influence in the South, maybe she can start studying the Mongoloid influence in her country.

Well, my dear Spanish friend, you are seeking truth in the wrong place and ad hominems wont take you there, that's for sure :shrug:. At least try to act like gentleman, she is young and have a lot of time to learn your truth ;)

@Alana

Stop it, my Turkish blood is boiling at the moment, I am so weak when its about belly dance :embarrassed

[Amapola]

Well, my dear Spanish friend, you are seeking truth in the wrong place and ad hominems wont take you there, that's for sure :shrug:. At least try to act like gentleman, she is young and have a lot of time to learn your truth ;)

Me aaaaaaaaa gentleman??

:scared::scratch::1127:

[Ibericus]

Me aaaaaaaaa gentleman??

:scared::scratch::1127:
He was replying to me..

[Radojica]

Me aaaaaaaaa gentleman??

:scared::scratch::1127:

:scratch: Am I missing something here :confused:?!

Well, in today's world, everything is possible

http://www.thesmartass.info/writes/ask-a-smartass/wp-content/uploads/Pregnant-Man.jpg

:scared:

[Aramis]

I believe it's quite delusional to think that there isn't some percentage (no matter if insignificant or not) of Turkish or Mongoloid blood amongs the nations on the balkan. Where is the problem I ask? Does it make you less Serbian, or what?

Get a grip.

[Ibericus]

I believe it's quite delusional to think that there isn't some percentage (no matter if insignificant or not) of Turkish or Mongoloid blood amongs the nations on the balkan. Where is the problem I ask? Does it make you less Serbian, or what?

Get a grip.

mongoloid in the balkans ? no, the mongoloid influence is in Northern/Eastern Europe.

[Radojica]

I believe it's quite delusional to think that there isn't some percentage (no matter if insignificant or not) of Turkish or Mongoloid blood amongs the nations on the balkan. Where is the problem I ask? Does it make you less Serbian, or what?

Get a grip.

I am rather to think that there is Serbian blood among Turkish population than other way around.


Crucial for the Islamicization of Bosnia was the peculiar and venal Turkish Muslim institution of the boy-tribute, or Adzami-Oglan (devsirme, мcollectingо). This was the Muslim custom and practice, the tribute of blood, whereby Christian families had to give to the Muslim Ottoman Empire their best male offspring to be brought up as Muslim protectors of the Turkish Empire. Many became janizaries (from Turkish yenicheri, new troops) or soldiers in the Turkish Sultanнs Guard, which was originally made up of foreign slaves and which was established in the 14th century by Murat I and abolished in 1826. Every five years special Muslim commissioners were sent out from Constantinople (Istanbul) know as the telosnici, from telos, the name of this tax. The commissioners went from village to village. Every Christian family was required to declare the exact number of children in the household. The commissioner then decided how many children to take of those that were the healthiest and the best-looking. Three years after the Muslim Turkish conquest and occupation of Bosnia in 1463, the first telosnik appeared to collect the Christian children. This practice continued until the 17th century. Andric stated that the “abducted children soon forgot, as we said, their paternal hearth and faith and turned into fanatic ‘Turks’.” This was how a Muslim and Turkish population was engineered in Bosnia-Hercegovina.

Serbian-Turks yes, Turkish-Serbs no :no:

:tongue:tongue:tongue

[Murphy]

Non-European influence does not mean one is no longer European. You could prove tomorow that Finns or Spaniards are all half-Moor or half-Mongol respectively.. and they'd still be European. This is why racialism fails. It ignores culture, it ignores ethnicity, it ignores history. It always leads to someone being more "racially right" than the other.

Bah.

[Äike]

mongoloid in the balkans ? no, the mongoloid influence is in Northern/Eastern Europe.

I have no mood to explain this thoroughly with Genetics, Human history in Europe etc. So I'll try in a few sentences.

Mongoloids are black haired, black eyed, non-white, not European you get the idea. Blond hair and light eyes are recessive traits. Even a single ancestor like that from several generations ago would affect the population.

[Ibericus]

Non-European influence does not mean one is no longer European. You could prove tomorow that Finns or Spaniards are all half-Moor or half-Mongol respectively.. and they'd still be European. This is why racialism fails. It ignores culture, it ignores ethnicity, it ignores history. It always leads to someone being more "racially right" than the other.

Bah.
Yes, but we have something called genetics, that proves the moorish influence in Iberias was minimal, while the mongloid influence in some nordic countries is quite substantial. But I agree with you.

[Ibericus]

I have no mood to explain this thoroughly with Genetics, Human history in Europe etc. So I'll try in a few sentences.

Mongoloids are black haired, black eyed, non-white, not European you get the idea. Blond hair and light eyes are recessive traits. Even a single ancestor like that from several generations ago would affect the population.
No, mongoloid is a big racial group that includes many ethnicities. Uralic peoples where blonde and mongoloid. Something like this :

http://jk666.webng.com/underground/jokela/naturalselector8cc5.png
http://www.dagsavisen.no/multimedia/archive/00023/64nazi_23633o.jpg

Plus Baltic/Nordic people have also indo-european ancestry, the mongoloid influence is substantial, but not majoritary

[Murphy]

Yes, but we have something called genetics, that proves the moorish influence in Iberias was minimal, while the mongloid influence in some nordic countries is quite substantial. But I agree with you.

And I am sure that is of great interest to those who have some obscure interest in the matter. However, when one puts ideological connotations to genetic tests, you cross the line.

[Stefan]

And people on these forums say us neworlders and especially Americans have racial identity issues. This thread is just a boring rehash of "your country is part X", "nuh uh, however your country is part Y". None of these affect race anyway, as these are distant influences from most probably over 5-generations that you guys are talking about, of which, wouldn't in the least affect hereditary phenotype(A.K.A Apparent Race.) Now if you are talking about genotypical differences, I'd have to say that most Europeans are related to their own, and bordering European nations before they are related to non-Europeans when getting tested or in studies. And relation isn't as linear as you guys are making it out to be. You could be related in one aspect, but totally different in another. Because of that even if there were to be a distant ancestor, it could very well mean little in terms of total genetic relation, and surely identification. Most racial differences there are between Europeans, surely aren't because of written historical migrations and mixtures, but of Neolithic ones. That leads me to say that I'm not impressed with any of the claims of distinctiveness by historical mixture that have been passed around this thread. Most of the time there is very little evidence to support these claims anyhow.

Edit: Maybe I should revise this.


And people on these forums say only us neworlders and especially Americans have racial identity issues.

[Äike]

No, mongoloid is a big racial group that includes many ethnicities. Uralic peoples where blonde and mongoloid. Something like this :

http://jk666.webng.com/underground/jokela/naturalselector8cc5.png
http://www.dagsavisen.no/multimedia/archive/00023/64nazi_23633o.jpg

Plus Baltic/Nordic people have also indo-european ancestry, the mongoloid influence is substantial, but not majoritary

Demic difussion didn't happen in Northern Europe, thus the population is mostly of Upper Paleolithic heritage(light pigmented).

That Norwegian guy doesn't look like the average Northern European nor like the average unmixed Finno-Ugric living next to the Urals.

The reason why Southern-Europeans are darker than Northern-Europeans, is because you are more Indo-European then us.

Baltic/Nordic people don't have Mongoloid ancestry and you should control your complexes.

Btw, were you very sad when PANF closed down?

[Falkata]

http://pastmist.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/blond-mongol-girl.jpg
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/img/126/0,1886,2334718,00.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3089/2856200512_f4ac88bb3b.jpg

http://pics.fort90.com/forum/I_want_to_believe.jpg

[Ibericus]

Demic difussion didn't happen in Northern Europe, thus the population is mostly of Upper Paleolithic heritage(light pigmented).

That Norwegian guy doesn't look like the average Northern European nor like the average unmixed Finno-Ugric living next to the Urals.
I didn't say this guy is the average Northern Europe, nor I didn't say the mongoloid influence is the main genetic component of northern europeans.



The reason why Southern-Europeans are darker than Northern-Europeans, is because you are more Indo-European then us.
Im not so sure about this. Plus, not all southern europeans are the same. You talk about "southern europeans" as a whole ethnicity. Iberia is not a typical southern european counry. It has a lot of Cro-Magnon mtDNA H1 and H3


Baltic/Nordic people don't have Mongoloid ancestry and you should control your complexes.
That's not true, they do have mongoloid ancestry, as show in autosomal studies. And you are the one with complexes, denying reality.


Btw, were you very sad when PANF closed down?
what the fuck is the PANF ??

[The Ripper]

Like I've said before, I've accepted the fact that someone will always have the need to consider myself and my nation "mongols" or whatever, and I've decided that its hardly my problem. ;)

If someone wants to base their "identity" on things that are an interesting footnote at most, they are free to do so, but don't try to drag me into your world of absurd racialism.

[Falkata]

To talk about a north European block and a southern one is nosense, genetically talking, culturally, historically... There´s way more relation between UK and France in all levels than between UK and Latvia, even when Latvia is a northern country too.

[Murphy]

To talk about a north European block and a southern one is nosense, genetically talking, culturally, historically... There´s way more relation between UK and France in all levels than between UK and Latvia, even when Latvia is a northern country too.

There is also mo relation between the British Isles and Iberia, the British Isles and the Levant, than there is between the British Isles and Finnland and Latvia and Estonia.

[Osweo]

There is also mo relation between the British Isles and Iberia, the British Isles and the Levant, than there is between the British Isles and Finnland and Latvia and Estonia.
NOW JUST YOU HOLD YOUR HORSES THERE, BOYO!!!!! :eek:

Britain was invaded by Scandinavians and Germanics, the neighbours of the Finns and Balts. There's bound to be a few links there!

How do you justify the Levantine claim?!?! :confused:

[Ibericus]

NOW JUST YOU HOLD YOUR HORSES THERE, BOYO!!!!! :eek:

Britain was invaded by Scandinavians and Germanics, the neighbours of the Finns and Balts. There's bound to be a few links there!

How do you justify the Levantine claim?!?! :confused:

I agree with you. He went too far with the comparison

[Inese]

And northern/eastern Europeans have mongol influence. Genetically, southwestern europeans (Iberia, Italy and France) are not less european, even I would say more european. The racial core of Europe, is IBERIA, since after the ice age refuge, the people there (mtDNA H1 and H3) spread through all Europe, specially Western Europe, and now this haplogroups are the most common in all western/northern Europe
:blah: You have our opinion and i have my opinion! It is total senseless to discuss about it. But look in a lexikon please, will you?? The mongols were never in our Baltic countries!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Mongol_Empire_History.jpg/800px-Mongol_Empire_History.jpg
http://www.allempires.com/empires/mongol/europe_invasion.jpg
So much about Mongol influence in northern Europe :rolleyes2:



You are being poked fun at (in a jovial way!) for not having produced a 'racial' map, but one which was highly predictable and based on politics, language and culture.
lol, i am being poked at! Something new.....:rolleyes: But you are wrong --- i was drawing the map in a racial view. I think that Baltic, Germanic and Northern Slavic people are related and it is the core for me. You know, Latvia had very large German influence in the past and Baltics and Slavs have connections too. But there is no connection to Spain or Italy or Greece or Roman empire. Please look at my map, i dont say that they are not European!! But they are not in my core as i see it. Other people can it see differently i have no problems with it.


There ARE Czechs and Germans who look like you, but if we really look closely at your traits, then these will be of an insignificant minority in those lands. Your racial type can be found in many places, but is of greater significance in the areas I highlighted. It's hardly very 'scientific' how I did it, but it's my honest impression from years of travelling through Eastern Europe. :)
Yes of course and i would be total horrified if i would not look from the Baltic region with my 75% Baltic family line. :D

[Ibericus]

:blah: You have our opinion and i have my opinion! It is total senseless to discuss about it. But look in a lexikon please, will you?? The mongols were never in our Baltic countries!
It's not about opinions, it's about genetic facts. Uralic people have been in Baltic countries and nordic counries


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Mongol_Empire_History.jpg/800px-Mongol_Empire_History.jpg
http://www.allempires.com/empires/mongol/europe_invasion.jpg

No, i am not talking about the mongol empire, I know they had no impact, Im talking about something much earlier: the siberian and uralic peoples,



lol, i am being poked at! Something new.....:rolleyes: But you are wrong --- i was drawing the map in a racial view. I think that Baltic, Germanic and Northern Slavic people are related and it is the core for me. You know, Latvia had very large German influence in the past and Baltics and Slavs have connections too. But there is no connection to Spain or Italy or Greece or Roman empire. Please look at my map, i dont say that they are not European!! But they are not in my core as i see it. Other people can it see differently i have no problems with it.
I don't care. I only care about the truth

[Jarl]

Definitely in case of Britain the Iberian and Celtic link is of great significance. So I have to agree with the Spaniards. The British are probably genetically closer to the French or Spanish, than to the Balts or Slavs.



P.S.

Why can't I access the forum from my old IP? ARRRGGGH!!!!

[Agrippa]

From a genetic point of view its clear that f.e. areas which have a high concentration of yDNA haplogroup N are not as European, not even as Europid, as other areas without influences of markers which are not classic Europid.

Yet that doesnt mean that those areas or people are non-European in my book, but if one asks about core areas, in a core area you have just the classic European Europid influences, so no big N-influence f.e.

Same goes for racial characteristics - Mongoliform traits or clear Near Eastern-North African influence which go beyond the European Europid spectrum are "not core area".

Its often difficult to make exact borders. F.e. in the map I produced in some minutes, I made, looking at it the second time, small mistakes - not that important ones, but some areas are in- or excluded which were better not if looking at it in detail.

So if you eliminate all "doubtful" areas with at least minimum "non classic" influences, you get an area with high intensity and thats largely around Central Europe. Thats because its similar to anything else, the closer to the centre, the less things come through and the further away from the centre...

But still the borderline between European and non-European is usually by far more important and as some others pointed out, being European is also an ethnocultural thing. So to me being largely European Europid and European ethnoculturally, core are or not, minor fringe influences or not...

[Loki]

P.S.

Why can't I access the forum from my old IP? ARRRGGGH!!!!

It could be that it was blocked accidentally by the in-built protection system. Could you pm it to me, so I can ask the host to have it cleared.

[Ibericus]

So if you eliminate all "doubtful" areas with at least minimum "non classic" influences, you get an area with high intensity and thats largely around Central Europe. Thats because its similar to anything else, the closer to the centre, the less things come through and the further away from the centre...
hmmm...Central Europe has higher levels of near-eastern Y-dna (E3b, J, G, T) than for example Spain.

[Jarl]

It could be that it was blocked accidentally by the in-built protection system. Could you pm it to me, so I can ask the host to have it cleared.

I think God has blocked me for attempting to pull that German wurstchen, Svanhilde! Hahaha! ^^

( . )( . ) :D

[Agrippa]

hmmm...Central Europe has higher levels of near-eastern Y-dna (E3b, J, G, T) than for example Spain.

If they entered Europe during the Neolithic, than those are European markers already and of course, they are clearly Europid too.

Spain has a little bit more recent North African-Near Eastern-African influences from what I know, yet Spain is largely core area and definitely "more core area" than North Eastern Europe obviously, at least from a genetic point of view and the knowledge we have now.

If something in my assumptions is completely wrong, I'm open minded for corrections. :)

[Ibericus]

If they entered Europe during the Neolithic, than those are European markers already and of course, they are clearly Europid too.

Spain has a little bit more recent North African-Near Eastern-African influences from what I know, yet Spain is largely core area and definitely "more core area" than North Eastern Europe obviously, at least from a genetic point of view and the knowledge we have now.

If something in my assumptions is completely wrong, I'm open minded for corrections. :)
I don't agree. The levels of north-african/near-eastern markers of Central Europe are higher than found in Spain. And yes, they are Neolithic or even pre-Neolithic

[Agrippa]

I don't agree. The levels of north-african/near-eastern markers of Central Europe are higher than found in Spain. And yes, they are Neolithic or even pre-Neolithic

If the R1b chronology being shortened, most of Europe might be Neolithic actually, at least in the sense of getting to the area in question in the Neolithic time with a Neolithic culture :)

[Jarl]

It could be that it was blocked accidentally by the in-built protection system. Could you pm it to me, so I can ask the host to have it cleared.

Shiver me timbers.... I got legs again! :thumb001:

[Murphy]

How do you justify the Levantine claim?!?! :confused:

When I speak of relation, I speak of more than just past familial blood claims. I speak of more pressing relations such as culture, politics and economy. By such things as the Levant Company, the British Mandate of Palestine etc.

Perhaps I did over-present my claim. But at the end of the day, the Levant and the rest of the Near East is much more important in British policy past and present than Scandinavia.

[Osweo]

If the R1b chronology being shortened, most of Europe might be Neolithic actually, at least in the sense of getting to the area in question in the Neolithic time with a Neolithic culture :)

I'm surprised at you, Aggripa! You seriously countenance the idea that Neolithic immigrants from the Near East pushed their way through the endless forests, highlands, swamps and plains of a whole continent, retaining enough purity of male line descent at the end of it all to shunt aside almost ALL trace of local Y haplogroups on the Atlantic fringe?!?!? Many areas here were barely agricultural in the EARLY MODERN PERIOD, for Heaven's sake!

[Don]

Iberia, can you not see that you are the mirror image of the fanatics in the north?

Fanatics in the north are motivated with fantasies and fairy tales because they were something like figurants or extras in the History of Human Civilizations.


And Iberia, compared to these nordicists (funny guys, I can't avoid smiling arrogantly and enjoyed at once), as Spaniard it's motivated by the History of Human Civilizations itself, where the name and deeds of sons of this ancient Land now called Spain, our blood, parents and ancestors, is found recurrently and bold in their pages.

Inese, you are wrong, I don't dislike your "visions", I enjoy them, you are really funny.:p.

Talking about that Film of Human Civilizations, in what part is latvia?¿ did you said "latvia"-what and where the hell is that? Is that in Europe? In the core?! :D Maybe you mistake it with your aunt's kitchen.

Latvia :tongue Funny funny girl.

Ah, the envy and rage of the Figurante for the Protagonista implies sometimes funny situations like this one.


NOW JUST YOU HOLD YOUR HORSES THERE, BOYO!!!!! :eek:

Britain was invaded by Scandinavians and Germanics, the neighbours of the Finns and Balts. There's bound to be a few links there!


They invaded a region with a previous basis of those dwellers worshipers of Stonehenge came from Iberia and similarities between both western countries are easy to find, in particular among the most ancient breeds. Lucky guys.

[lei.talk]

Originally Posted by Irrepressible Dove (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=182813#post182813) http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/jagohan/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=199975#post199975) :blah:
You have our opinion and i have my opinion!
It is total senseless to discuss about it.
But look in a lexikon please, will you??
the goal of discussion is the exchange of information:
thoughts lacking a foundation in reality
lack any application in reality.

smoother human inter-actions may be achieved
by harmonising our thoughts
with reality and - consequently - other thinkers.

in real-life, any degree of unpleasantness
in my relationships with others
is directly proportional to their disconnection from reality.

most persons are not - intentionally - wrong,
if observed behavior seems inconsonant
with one's knowledge - enquire as to the basis of the action.

if one is making statements
that are consonant with reality,

one need simply point to the proof.

ridicule/mockery/insults reveal more of the speaker
than reality.

If something in my assumptions is completely wrong,
I'm open minded for corrections. :)

[Äike]

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9430/finnsgeneticandlinguist.png

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8236/finnsandlinguisticrelat.png


"Racial core of Europe":
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/112/finnsandgeneticrelative.png

I consider the native Upper Paleolithic population of Europe to be "the racial core of Europe". As they were here before any other European arrivals. Demic diffusion (http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/710/demicdiffusion.png) didn't happen in Northern Europe, only cultural diffusion. Thus it doesn't matter what language the Northern Europeans speak, they're still mostly of the same heritage(descended from native UP hunter-gatherers who most probably spoke Finnic languages).

[Ibericus]

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9430/finnsgeneticandlinguist.png

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8236/finnsandlinguisticrelat.png


"Racial core of Europe":
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/112/finnsandgeneticrelative.png

I consider the native Upper Paleolithic population of Europe to be "the racial core of Europe". As they were here before any other European arrivals. Demic diffusion (http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/710/demicdiffusion.png) didn't happen in Northern Europe, only cultural diffusion. Thus it doesn't matter what language the Northern Europeans speak, they're still mostly of the same heritage(descended from native UP hunter-gatherers who most probably spoke Finnic languages).
LOL, having Finland and Baltic countries about 40+% of siberian N1c1 haplogroup, plus the genetic relation between Finland and scandinavian countries is not as you say. Scandinavian countries are closer to UK, Germany, than Finland. See this autosomal studies :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/SbJ7-cB9i6I/AAAAAAAAA9c/iStcCLhg43A/s1600/structure_northerneurope.png



Finnish mongoloid admixture :

http://i34.tinypic.com/ekm6h1.png



http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2544/laoplotvu4.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/SgPtrXOvDUI/AAAAAAAABbo/mDAK-MpRf9k/s1600/journal. pone.0005472.s007.jpg


Genetic distances :

http://dienekes.110mb.com/articles/greekadna/tehvalu.jpg

[Pallantides]

Norway over the last thousand years have had a lot of genetic input from the outside.
Finns, Germans, Sami, Dutch, Scots, English, Danes and Swedes have all left their genetic mark on the Norwegian population.

[Agrippa]

Norway over the last thousand years have had a lot of genetic input from the outside.
Finns, Germans, Sami, Dutch, Scots, English, Danes and Swedes have all left their genetic mark on the Norwegian population.

As on every other. Yet if you calculate that, its clear that most influences come from neighbours, so the fringes filter what enters the continent and the further away from the ends of the habitat you go, the less likely it is - in most but not all cases obviously, to see the admixture more common on the fringes like Eastbaltid-Lappoid in the North East, Armenoid in South Eastern fringes etc.

[Svanhild]

Iberian hardcores vs. Northern hardcores the 20th. Load a new CD, please.


I think God has blocked me for attempting to pull that German wurstchen, Svanhilde! Hahaha! ^^

( . )( . ) :D
Guys I know loved that kind of humour. In elementary school.



Talking about that Film of Human Civilizations, in what part is latvia?¿ did you said "latvia"-what and where the hell is that? Is that in Europe? In the core?! :D Maybe you mistake it with your aunt's kitchen.
What's the matter with your ignorance for other nations? You're basically downgrading every country except for Spain. Neither credible nor intellectually stimulating. Show some respect for other cultures if you want to receive respect for your country's history and achievements. I wonder if an Iberian-only board wouldn't be more reasonable for you.

Talking about cores:

http://www.keiththompsonart.com/images/full/grandmap.jpg

Note the details: How Austria-Hungary threatens Serbia with the knifes, how the artillery gun of Germany's war machine faces east, how the Russian bear wants to swallow Austria-Hungary...and how the torso of the Russian bear is a mere skeleton.

[Jarl]

Ireland belongs to the core first and foremost. And Scotland.


, how the Russian bear wants to swallow Austria-Hungary...and how the torso of the Russian bear is a mere skeleton.

Yes. An interesting lesson of German anatomy.


http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9430/finnsgeneticandlinguist.png

Tut, tut! Sir, you have to understand this is unbearable. How much more of such bullshit one can take?


I consider the native Upper Paleolithic population of Europe to be "the racial core of Europe". As they were here before any other European arrivals. Demic diffusion (http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/710/demicdiffusion.png) didn't happen in Northern Europe, only cultural diffusion. Thus it doesn't matter what language the Northern Europeans speak, they're still mostly of the same heritage(descended from native UP hunter-gatherers who most probably spoke Finnic languages).

With this I have to agree. It is the Cro-Magnon strain (with some Neanderthal infusions) which makes the Euopeans quite distinct. Yet Finnic languages were at that time non-existent. Perhaps some Proto-Uralic, or Uralo-Altaic was spoken in the Far East. The language of the late Paleolithic Eurasia was most likely Dene-Caucasian.

[Aramis]

Note the details: How Austria-Hungary threatens Serbia with the knifes, how the artillery gun of Germany's war machine faces east, how the Russian bear wants to swallow Austria-Hungary...and how the torso of the Russian bear is a mere skeleton.

...and how the Ottomans are your allies!

[Jarl]

...and how the Ottomans are your allies!

Pre-dating the infamous alliance with the Japanese... just as the guardians of European heritage and Euro-culture bearers should do ;)

[Pallantides]

As on every other. Yet if you calculate that, its clear that most influences come from neighbours, so the fringes filter what enters the continent and the further away from the ends of the habitat you go, the less likely it is - in most but not all cases obviously, to see the admixture more common on the fringes like Eastbaltid-Lappoid in the North East, Armenoid in South Eastern fringes etc.


Most of Norway's immigrants came from neighboring countries apart from a small number of Italian, Swiss, Russian and Romani immigrants.
http://195.159.218.27/nyenordmenn/nettustillinger/NF_ML/2/img/euro_blank.gif

[Jarl]

Most of Norway's immigrants came from neighboring countries apart from a small number of Italian, Swiss, Russian and Romani immigrants.
http://195.159.218.27/nyenordmenn/nettustillinger/NF_ML/2/img/euro_blank.gif

Looks like some Polabians and Pomeranians got in there ;)

[Agrippa]

With this I have to agree. It is the Cro-Magnon strainwhich makes the Euopeans quite distinct.

Not only so, but also. I think its also very much about the habitat we live in, since that formed and shaped who we are, race and culture alike too.


(with some Neanderthal infusions)

Rather not.


The language of the late Paleolithic Eurasia was most likely Dene-Caucasian.

Most likely something we dont know, will never know and will therefore never be able to reconstruct. What we can say though is whats less likely. Something like Uralic and related is not that likely...

Also the Europeans came from more Southern areas, even if we have a long inhabitation and no huge Neolithic replacement. Most strains survived in Southern refugia or came before the Neolithic times in the Mesolithic period - large parts in the Neolithic times, but in my opinion not just from the Near East, but also Southern Russia-South Eastern Europe as a secondary centre for the rest of Europe.

The North Eastern areas were late taken by Europids and had more foreign admixture - became "Re-Europidised"/more Europid by new waves of immigrants in Neolithic and Post-Neolithic times.

[Jarl]

Rather not.

Wait for the Neanderthal Genome Project data to be published. They sequenced the genome with the Roche technology. There are some concrete findings. Trust me :)


Most likely something we dont know, will never know and will therefore never be able to reconstruct. What we can say though is whats less likely. Something like Uralic and related is not that likely...

Also the Europeans came from more Southern areas, even if we have a long inhabitation and no huge Neolithic replacement. Most strains survived in Southern refugia or came before the Neolithic times in the Mesolithic period - large parts in the Neolithic times, but in my opinion not just from the Near East, but also Southern Russia-South Eastern Europe as a secondary centre for the rest of Europe.

The North Eastern areas were late taken by Europids and had more foreign admixture - became "Re-Europidised"/more Europid by new waves of immigrants in Neolithic and Post-Neolithic times.

Most proto-Europeans came from the South and mixed with the "locals", who probably resembled more the prehistoric weakly differentiated Siberian-Ainu-Pacifid stratum. Perhaps that is why most Europeans are much closer by paternal ancestry to Amerindians, than to Near Easterners. Dene-Caucasian is, I believe, the best candidate for an Paleolithic, Eurasian hunter language family.

[Don]

Not only so, but also. I think its also very much about the habitat we live in, since that formed and shaped who we are, race and culture alike too.



Rather not.



Most likely something we dont know, will never know and will therefore never be able to reconstruct. What we can say though is whats less likely. Something like Uralic and related is not that likely...

Also the Europeans came from more Southern areas, even if we have a long inhabitation and no huge Neolithic replacement. Most strains survived in Southern refugia or came before the Neolithic times in the Mesolithic period - large parts in the Neolithic times, but in my opinion not just from the Near East, but also Southern Russia-South Eastern Europe as a secondary centre for the rest of Europe.

The North Eastern areas were late taken by Europids and had more foreign admixture - became "Re-Europidised"/more Europid by new waves of immigrants in Neolithic and Post-Neolithic times.

During last glaciation, life in northern regions of Europe was impossible and the ancient dwellers lived in regions of France, Spain and other Southern regions of Europe.
...

Did I gave a tip to find a Core of our civilization?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/The_Sorcerer.jpg -Recreation-
Trois Frères, Pirineos Franceses. Hechicero (zooantropomorfo)

http://centros3.pntic.mec.es/cp.cisneros/Replica%20Altamira.jpg
Altamira, Cantabria España.

http://www.castillodeloarre.org/Fotos/Dolmen%20Tella%2007%20r.jpg
Tella, Huesca, España. Dolmen
...

Still nowadays nordic regions of Europe are unpleasant for human life and France and in particular Spain seems a preferred for human life...
and in nature, the stronger one keeps the good place... but that is another matter quite interesting as well as tabu, but written and supported in our History, the real one, of course.

[Jarl]

Did I gave a tip to find a Core of our civilization?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/The_Sorcerer.jpg

Is this our civilisation? :cool:

[Agrippa]

Perhaps that is why most Europeans are much closer by paternal ancestry to Amerindians, than to Near Easterners

I think thats because the strains which were more important for Europe crossed the Near East, left something behind, but not too much, went on to South Asia, some strains going on to Australia even - but most went soon afterwards up into Southern Central Asia.

I'm speaking about the R group obviously.

The Near East differentiated on in the meantime, sending I to Europe, probably in the Mesolithic or earlier, while R moved on with R1b and later R1a in Mesolithic times, but especially Neolithic ones from Southern Russis-South Eastern Europe.

Unless they find a European pathway directly from the Near East, but thats less likely.

I made a map to illustrate what I have in mind now. Blue is the R expansion, first from the Near East going into India, further differentiating, going up into Central Asia, further differentiating. Finally moving successively into Europes mainland Northern-later route R1a, Southern-earlier R1b, most likely an expansion beginning in the Mesolithic but going on.

Red the Near East. Mesolithic expansion first of I, into the Balkans, further spreading from there. Southern second line means the J expansion in the Neolithic and Metal Ages only.

Third an old East African influence from E3b/E1b1b expansion, early into the Near East, later, during the Neolithic time, into Europe.

Most important is to me the possible route and distribution of R1b-R1a before its expansion into the rest of Europe, which would be suspiciously related to the Indoeuropean homeland theories if being true.

And yes, I know its amateurish :P

[Pallantides]

Most proto-Europeans came from the South and mixed with the "locals", who probably resembled more the prehistoric weakly differentiated Siberian-Ainu-Pacifid stratum. Perhaps that is why most Europeans are much closer by paternal ancestry to Amerindians, than to Near Easterners. Dene-Caucasian is, I believe, the best candidate for an Paleolithic, Eurasian hunter language family.

I have noticed On Dr. McD's BGA many Northern Europeans have higher score and affinity with Amerindians than Southern Europeans do, though it's rather minimal.
This is definitely not real Amerindian admix but most likely something else.
http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6792/norway3.png




Still nowadays nordic regions of Europe are unpleasant for human life and France and in particular Spain seems a preferred for human life....

Really?

I find it quite pleasant living here, I mean I enjoy going to southern countries on holiday but I prefer living here up in the North, our summers are also nice and I love the winter.

[Don]

Is this our civilisation? :cool:

Yes, we found it!.
The core of our european civilization.

We found it.
http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/Myth/Sorcerer.jpg


Just HERE. Enlarge.
4475



The core of our civilization is in these sexual attributes that this Ancient European "sorcerer" is showing us, containing the info that made us, 15000 years later, in his back side of his legs (in a identification with the animal-nature to transcend the human reality.)



Note: these are pirenaic attributes.

[Falkata]

[/IMG]




Really?

I find it quite pleasant living here, I mean I enjoy going to southern countries on holiday but I prefer living here up in the North, our summers are also nice and I love the winter.

Tell that to your ancestors who hadnt heats, artificial light and stuff :D
More than the cold, i think its the few sunlight hours that you have there what is more depressing

[Don]

Mistake

[Svanhild]

Yes. An interesting lesson of German anatomy.
And an interesting lesson of Polish anatomy: It's not existent on the artwork. :wink

[Lulletje Rozewater]

When all is said and done and unraveled,there is only one core:The Boers are coming

[Jarl]

Yes, we found it!.
The core of our european civilization.

We found it.
http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/Myth/Sorcerer.jpg


Just HERE. Enlarge.
4475




You mean our civilisation's core is a dick drawn by some savages centuries ago???


This is our civilisation:

http://www.wikiwak.com/image/Cologne+Cathedral.jpg

http://www.destination360.com/europe/italy/images/s/italy-vatican-museum.jpg

http://judaica-art.com/images/uploads/Renoir/Doges%20Palace,%20Venice-border.jpg

http://www.worldtourist.us/italy/forum.jpg

http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~walters/web%20230/Bull%20of%20Tordesillas%20Cantino_Planisphere.jpg

[Jarl]

http://www.gordonmiller.ca/images/Columbus-1492.jpg

http://www.bestscalemodels.com/Mayflower.jpg

http://www.findboatpics.com/images/sail_lowres/cutty_sark_w.jpg

http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcourses/barnardintro1/large/turner_rain-steam-speed.jpg

...we founded it ;)



And an interesting lesson of Polish anatomy: It's not existent on the artwork. :wink

Wouldn't go half as far as to call it an "artwork", but Germans are known for their liberal sense of art. Just like for their tremendously constructive zeal for civilisational edification, quite well depicted by the massive gun.

[Don]

http://www.gordonmiller.ca/images/Columbus-1492.jpg

http://www.bestscalemodels.com/Mayflower.jpg

http://www.findboatpics.com/images/sail_lowres/cutty_sark_w.jpg

http://www.mcah.columbia.edu/dbcourses/barnardintro1/large/turner_rain-steam-speed.jpg

...we founded it ;)


Well, in those attributes was contained the seed that germinated into men and women that made possible all the things shown in those pictures, grandiosas, of our European civilization.

In some way, all these ships with castilian and english colours of your pics, the cathedrals, the discoveries, all the deeds... are contained, potentially, in the sexual attributes represented in the painting of a European from the pirinees 15000 years ago.

Here is clear that the Eggs are before the chickens and their deeds.

4485

[Jarl]

You're a Spanish version of Jarl, Cristiano. :wink

Cristiano, my brother, you can't get more complimented that that! :P


Keep cool, I've nothing against Spain and respect their culture and history.

But please Cristiano. Don't trust the barbarians... they only respect you before taking your country and your women... you know what's happening in Majorca? ;)


http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9003/paneuropafuck.png

LOL... That must depict the historical Germano-Bulgarian friendship, right?

[Don]

Cristiano, my brother, you can't get more complimented that that! :P
I was thinking the very same.


But please Cristiano. Don't trust the barbarians... they only respect you before taking your country and your women... you know what's happening in Majorca? ;)

All is part of the Figurant/Extra Syndrome. They are quite predictable.

We, as inheritors of the blood of the men and women that conformed the Main Characters of European History, (In our case Imperio Español and British Empire) can't understand their silly fantasies and psychotic delusions about a surrealistic "history"... without making big efforts to empathize them and feel as they feel in their, -let's be here quite magnanimum- "Secondary" position in the History of Europe and Human civilization.

The problem comes when these delusions, made to fight the inferiority complexes of some of them, become stronger and stronger and degenerate into a psychotic madness that, if it's funny for the observer, may not be as funny or healthy for the sufferer, who lives far from the real world, and wake up from these travels uses to be traumatic :rolleyes:

[Jarl]

They are quite predictable.

By Jove! Aren't they! You spoken the truth haha :)


We, as inheritors of the blood of the men and women that conformed the Main Characters of European History, (In our case Imperio Español and British Empire) can't understand their silly fantasies and psychotic delusions about a surrealistic "history"... without making big efforts to empathize them and feel as they feel in their, -let's be here quite magnanimum- "Secondary" situation in the History of Europe and Human civilization.

Some just feel the need to justify their egoism more than others ;)


What is 'Racial core' supposed to mean ?

Me... having it my own way with Svanhilde. Just add "hard" in :P

[Eins Zwei Polizei]

The core is where all the wealth is.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8472/gdpeuropeancore.jpg

[Comte Arnau]

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/AP/028838d3.png

[Äike]

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr207/chorchon/AP/028838d3.png

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9600/14566844.gif

Europe 5500BC:
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3447/image7uv.jpg

[Don]

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/9600/14566844.gif

Europe 5500BC:
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3447/image7uv.jpg

I thought in Scandinavia, in particular in western regions (norway) there were people similar to us, westerners.

I think these maps although, Speaking about what I know, the western regions, explain quite well not only the cultures (and the myths and legends found in western regions of Europe almost cloned from ancient times) but as well the phenotypes (supported by the new and new genetic proves).

Is evident that in Eurasia, the distinctions among us (ethnocultures) are explained following a logic West-East Axis, despite the "new" invasions in some regions of the West, the original sustrates, racial and cultural, as I say, are evident.

Each day more evidences extracted from the depths of the caves in the West (mainly in Iberia), I mean the most ancient europeans from 900.000 years prove that there are mainly, give form and correlate with the Western Continuum, supported by all kind of cultural, ethnic and racial evidences.

The Axis North/South is irrelevant compared to the West/East, as proves the differences of knowledge and formation between the kind of people that defends one and another posture.

[Äike]

I thought in Scandinavia, in particular in western regions (norway) there were people similar to us, westerners.

I think these maps although, Speaking about what I know, the western regions, explain quite well not only the cultures (and the myths and legends found in western regions of Europe almost cloned from ancient times) but as well the phenotypes (supported by the new and new genetic proves).

Well Kalevi Wiik says that the Basques traveled to Northern-Scandinavia and formed a new mixed population, who are the Saami. He also says that the Western/Basque heritage among the Saami is the reason why they are darker than the people south of them.


Is evident that in Eurasia, the distinctions among us (ethnocultures) are explained following a logic West-East Axis, despite the "new" invasions in some regions of the West, the original sustrates, racial and cultural, as I say, are evident.

Each day more evidences extracted from the depths of the caves in the West (mainly in Iberia), I mean the most ancient europeans from 900.000 years prove that there are mainly, give form and correlate with the Western Continuum, supported by all kind of cultural, ethnic and racial evidences.

The Axis North/South is irrelevant compared to the West/East, as proves the differences of knowledge and formation between the kind of people that defends one and another posture.

Well, the reason is that Western-Europe is considerably more south than Eastern-Europe. When most of Eastern-Europe was covered by ice, then there cannot be a continuum.

http://www.gsi.ie/NR/rdonlyres/33EE5A20-415D-4FEB-8443-120AA879B397/0/16IceAge.jpg

[Pallantides]

I thought in Scandinavia, in particular in western regions (norway) there were people similar to us, westerners.
.

obviously the R1b carrying Norwegian males killed all the Finno-Ugrian N1c males(thats why N1c is almost at 0% in western Norway and R1b is around 40%)
http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00398/Martin_Andresen__Br_398273c.jpghttp://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5733/objphpi.jpg(I'm not sure if Martin Andresen is R1b and he is from east Norway not west Norway, but he fits:D)

[Äike]

obviously the R1b carrying Norwegian males killed all the Finno-Ugrian N1c males(thats why N1c is almost at 0% in western Norway and R1b is around 40%)

Not necessarily, there were 2 main Upper Paleolithic groups in Europe. Basques in the West and Finno-Ugrics in the North and the East. The Basques could have made it to Western-Norway before the Finno-Ugrics, when the ice gap was receding and the Finno-Ugric hunter-gatherers had no intention of moving to lands already taken.

[Albion]

What in the gods names makes Northern Europeans more "racially European" than Southern Europeans?
:rolleyes2:

Maybe it has something to do with the percentages of "first farmer" haplogroups which get higher the further south and east you get.

My personal view regarding the racial core of Europe:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17693&stc=1&d=1322756663
Note on the map: I1b should be I1a. I mixed them up, sorry.

This map shows the dominant four haplogroups of Europe with their main distribution (circled) and areas in which they dominate (shaded).
The square in the middle shows where three of the four haplogroups converge - Southern / Central Germany, Austria, Czechia and a few surrounding areas.

If we are to look for the racial core of Europe than in my opinion we must look for the area where the predominant haplogroups converge as I have done here.
Looking for the homeland and heartland of a haplogroup is no good since it suggests that only this certain haplogroup is European.

But I'll add that I don't see the non-dominant haplogroups as necessarily any less European, it is just that in determining the "racial core of Europe" I think this is the best method since the dominant types of Europe can undoubtedly be classed as European.
As you get closer to Anatolia and North Africa there are more of the "first farmer" and associated types which are mainly European IMO, but don't account for the majority of people in Europe.

But anyway, German claims to be at the "heart of Europe" or its racial core do actually have some credibility, Germany, Austria, Czechia and Central Europe in general are a zone of convergence genetically, culturally and linguistically.

[Albion]

Not necessarily, there were 2 main Upper Paleolithic groups in Europe. Basques in the West and Finno-Ugrics in the North and the East. The Basques could have made it to Western-Norway before the Finno-Ugrics, when the ice gap was receding and the Finno-Ugric hunter-gatherers had no intention of moving to lands already taken.

Openheimer (despite all his flaws) suggested such about the Sami. It isn't really impossible to imagine.
I think if I remember right he mentioned genetic differences between the Sami inland and the "Sea Lapps" of coastal Norway, the latter showing relation to Western Europeans.
Whilst this could be due to Norwegian admixture it would be highly likely that Sami living in western and coastal regions would be more related to western Europeans anyway.

[Rosenrot]

I just love to read this Southern X Northern bullshit :D

[Albion]

I just love to read this Southern X Northern bullshit :D

Same here. But it keeps people thinking (well, some of them anyway ;) ) as they bid to refute each other and prove that their part of Europe is better.
Educational and entertaining at the same time. :thumb001:

[Sikeliot]

The racial core of Europe in my view centers around the Basques, but also Atlantic Europe;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Atlantic-Europe.jpg/250px-Atlantic-Europe.jpg

secondly I'd include Central Europe (mostly Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, and Austria), Poland, and the Baltics.

[Agrippa]

The racial core of Europe in my view centers around the Basques, but also Atlantic Europe;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Atlantic-Europe.jpg/250px-Atlantic-Europe.jpg

secondly I'd include Central Europe (mostly Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland, and Austria), Poland, and the Baltics.

That makes no sense, because Europe is not about extremes, but rather about what's common.

[Sikeliot]

My criteria was whoever has the least Mongoloid and West Asian affinities, thus I would not count Finns, Sicilians, Maltese, Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarians etc. as part of Europe's "racial core". Thus this would be Atlantic Europeans, Central Europeans, and the Baltics.

I'd say Britain, France, Germany, Netherlands if I had to choose specific countries.

[Artek]

The core is where all the wealth is.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8472/gdpeuropeancore.jpg
>>>GDP
>>>wealth
:lol00002::lol00002::lol00002:

[Damião de Góis]

http://www.pandaempresas.net/portugal/Setubal_distrito_mapa.png

[Anthropologique]

Why was this thread started? Pretty useless.

[Anthropologique]

My criteria was whoever has the least Mongoloid and West Asian affinities, thus I would not count Finns, Sicilians, Maltese, Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarians etc. as part of Europe's "racial core". Thus this would be Atlantic Europeans, Central Europeans, and the Baltics.

I'd say Britain, France, Germany, Netherlands if I had to choose specific countries.

...and more Cro-Magnon.

[Mordid]

...and more Cro-Magnon.
Eastern European are more Cromagnoid than Western European.

[safinator]

There is also mo relation between the British Isles and Iberia, the British Isles and the Levant, than there is between the British Isles and Finnland and Latvia and Estonia.

No, that can't be obviously.

[Comte Arnau]

http://www.pandaempresas.net/portugal/Setubal_distrito_mapa.png

I quite agree. The rest of Europeans are outlying Alentejans.

[Lusos]

The core was destroyed many Centuries ago.

20,000 years ago, global mean temperature 4 degrees C cooler than today, although the North Atlantic was 14 degrees C cooler. Lower sea level allows large-scale migrations of people into the Americas.

Homo sapiens thrive in cold European climate. Homo neanderthalensis become extinct, with last fossil evidence dated 28,000 years ago in Portugal.

[Comte Arnau]

Well, what is certain is that my Pyrenean ancestry belongs to one of the cores, the LGM refugia.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Europe20000ya.png/800px-Europe20000ya.png

[RussiaPrussia]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H6XW_a4TYus/SYjOXAYnH_I/AAAAAAAAALg/nlsujC6dfnY/s400/blue_eyes_map2.jpg

racial core was always the Baltic sea

[Comte Arnau]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H6XW_a4TYus/SYjOXAYnH_I/AAAAAAAAALg/nlsujC6dfnY/s400/blue_eyes_map2.jpg

racial core was always the Baltic sea

You mean Indo-European newcomers with an eye defect are the racial core? :P

[member]

You mean Indo-European newcomers with an eye defect are the racial core? :P

How they are new comers and others aren't?

[Mans not hot]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H6XW_a4TYus/SYjOXAYnH_I/AAAAAAAAALg/nlsujC6dfnY/s400/blue_eyes_map2.jpg

racial core was always the Baltic sea
LOL, NE Italians and some Montenegros are lighter than South English and South Polish.

[Comte Arnau]

How they are new comers and others aren't?

Because those others were here previously? :)

[Kastrioti1443]

LOL, NE Italians and some Montenegros are lighter than South English and South Polish.

lol that map is the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen in my life, i do not evan have to comment about it.

Here is the real lightening level map of eyes and hair in Europe:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Map_pigmentation_in_Europe.png

[Vasconcelos]

lol wiki maps, great source.

[Mans not hot]

I haven't met Italians and Montenegros, but judging a pics of Italians and Montenegros on these anthroforums, they seem way darker than South English and South Polish

[Peyrol]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_H6XW_a4TYus/SYjOXAYnH_I/AAAAAAAAALg/nlsujC6dfnY/s400/blue_eyes_map2.jpg

racial core was always the Baltic sea

Lol, this map is a crap :lol:

[Kastrioti1443]

lol wiki maps, great source.

That map is taken from '' Races of Europe'' of Carlteon Coon, and it represents the truth better than anything else. In the other map, lol hercegovinians and montenigrins having the same light eyes as english and poles and greeks having the same light eyes as ukranians, loooooool

[Vasconcelos]

oh Coon, that's so much better!

[Kastrioti1443]

Well, I better believe a man who spent 10 years in studing europeans than anyone else.

[Dombra]

I made a more complete map:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4437&d=1271865660

Red lines: Original European Europids distribution by genetic borders

Blue quadrat, primary core area.

Green: Original Europid/Caucasoid habitat

Blue: Significant Europoid influences in the past or presence

What changed most is in the East because of the Turko-Mongol expansions, which ruined Indoeuropean Central Asia. An original core area of the Europid race.

Main centres-distribution of the progressive racial forms:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4438&stc=1&d=1271866019

yellow = Nordid
red = Mediterranid
green = Iranid
grey = Arabid
orange = Nordindid-Gracilindid
blue = Aethiopid
purple = Sinid

Also compare with:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11365

I like that eastern Russia is considered more originally European than Finland :/

[Comte Arnau]

Well, I better believe a man who spent 10 years in studing europeans than anyone else.

Your sentence would make sense if the scientific method followed for that map had been described. Since we don't know about it, scientist or not, it seems just taken out from his ass.