State the main phenotypes among the attendants of an exclusive country club wedding in Colombia

[Tooting Carmen]

Unfortunately, the website won't let me download the photos when I try to google them, so here is the link with all the relevant photos: http://www.jetset.com.co/sociedad/bogota/galeria/matrimonio-andrea-ostau-de-la-font-carlos-romero/122789

Recall that these are what upper/upper-middle class Colombians look like. Once again, it cannot be emphasised often enough that, while there is certainly a link between race and social class in Colombia and other Latin American countries, a lot of people really exaggerate it, not least in this forum.

[pelikarski]

upper/upper-middle class
This means less native influence? Most seen Southern Euro - Native types. Cant classify all

[Tooting Carmen]

This means less native influence?

In general yes, but my point is that the difference between these and the working and middle classes is nothing like as big as some claim.

[pelikarski]

Some could fit in Spain?
Like the man?
http://static.iris.net.co/jetset/upload/images/2015/2/1/122804_234412_1.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

Some could fit in Spain?
Like the man?
http://static.iris.net.co/jetset/upload/images/2015/2/1/122804_234412_1.jpg

True, but the woman (and there are lots like her in this set of photos) definitely doesn't...

[Arbërori]

Oh honey, let me help you:
http://i.imgur.com/eLp8jSW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K4pDdef.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qsS0JD9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lNEiYlY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/O2k9ahu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9UlJlQm.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/j6T01sx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PlPPB2W.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cpCyt4Q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aYqML2Z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rO9J17l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UbszSmw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/J17Q9mc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AJ0VBtU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UIvm7RA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qMVhvZx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LJkahFI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7hAtOwa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/y9004nn.jpg

[Ulla]

Some look full Euro (mainly southern, few central Euro). Others look not full Euro.

[Yuffayur]

Mostly Atlanto-Alpine-Gracile Med + native (amerindian) admixture I think.

EDIT: I see some Berid.

[Arbërori]

Most seem to be mixed. Colombia is a racial disaster.

[Dominicanese]

Many of these people can pass in Central and Northern Spain (Typically), while there's a handful of Castizos, and some Andaluzes.

[lyllo]

Med, Alpine and Atlantid

Mestizo, Harnizo and one triracial

[Sikeliot]

Most are anywhere from harnizo to offwhite. In most I can see various degrees of Amerindian.

[Tooting Carmen]

Given the continuing contentious debates about the degree to which the upper and upper-middle classes of Latin America are 'whiter' than the rest of the population, I thought I'd revive this thread.

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

Main phenotypes=Pred. Euro.

[Tooting Carmen]

Main phenotypes=Pred. Euro.

How similar would you say they look compared to their Mexican counterparts? Because, judging by the photos that Armand Duval and Bravado in particular have posted of wealthier Mexicans, they on average actually look whiter than their Colombian equivalents. (This doesn't mean that Mexicans are as a whole whiter than Colombians; rather, I think racial integration has, ironically, been better in Colombia than in Mexico).

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

How similar would you say they look compared to their Mexican counterparts? Because, judging by the photos that Armand Duval and Bravado in particular have posted of wealthier Mexicans, they on average actually look whiter than their Colombian equivalents. (This doesn't mean that Mexicans are as a whole whiter than Colombians; rather, I think racial integration has, ironically been better in Colombia than in Mexico).
I agree.

[Brighton]

I feel like in Colombia the difference are larger between regions than between classes.. not only in terms of phenotype but also in terms of stuff such as accents..

The Chilean upper-middle class is whiter I reckon –higher proportion of light eyes as well. It seems like even though Colombia is more unequal in economic terms, the gap between the poor and the rich in terms of physical appearance is not that important. :)

[Tooting Carmen]

I feel like in Colombia the difference are larger between regions than between classes.. not only in terms of phenotype but also in terms of stuff such as accents..

I've been saying this all along too.


The Chilean upper-middle class is whiter I reckon –higher proportion of light eyes as well. It seems like even though Colombia is more unequal in economic terms, the gap between the poor and the rich in terms of physical appearance is not that important. :)

Something like that. Anyway, how'd you describe the phenotypes in the OP?

[Mn The Loki TA Son]

I've been saying this all along too.



Something like that. Anyway, how'd you describe the phenotypes in the OP?

Same in Colombian soap operas\novelas, you see white(criollo range) ,mestizo\triracial types to mulatto and blacks. While operas\novelas from Mexico for exsample is less diverse and whiter than anything else.

[Brighton]

I've been saying this all along too.

Something like that. Anyway, how'd you describe the phenotypes in the OP?

I'm not really good at classifying.. and I define White as someone who passes in Europe..

so I'd say mostly Whites and Mestizos.. more Mestizos than Whites though.

Didn't see any African feature :P

[Tooting Carmen]

I'm not really good at classifying.. and I define White as someone who passes in Europe.. so I'd say mostly Whites and Mestizos.. didn't see any African feature :P

Yeah, the truth is that Mulattoes and Triracials are not really that common among the Colombian rich, but Mestizos very much are.

[Brighton]

Yeah, the truth is that Mulattoes and Triracials are not really that common among the Colombian rich, but Mestizos very much are.
Haha we don't have Mulattoes nor Triracials apart from immigrants haha.

I'll create a thread to compare Chile's upper-middle and working class.

[Tooting Carmen]

I'll create a thread to compare Chile's upper-middle and working class.

You already did that ages ago, with dimly lit photos from nightclubs much like most of Sikeliot's Sicilian and Greek threads.

[Brighton]

Done: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?158817-Most-common-phenotypes-within-Chile-s-upper-middle-and-working-class&p=3370049#post3370049

[Brighton]

You already did that ages ago, with dimly lit photos from nightclubs much like most of Sikeliot's Sicilian and Greek threads.

Wow.. how rude.

You've done plenty of threads about similar topics as well.. no need to be that nasty

Anyway, there are new people in the forum so I did it again..

[Tooting Carmen]

Wow.. how rude.

You've done plenty of threads about similar topics as well.. no need to be that nasty

Anyway, there are new people in the forum so I did it again..

OK, sorry. I've already posted in your new thread btw.:)

[StonyArabia]

They look like Metis

[Argentano]

some can pass in europe...most cant..

they still look more european IMO than low middle and low class

[Tooting Carmen]

they still look more european IMO than low middle and low class

I don't deny that, but my point is that the difference is less dramatic than some of you make out. With a few exceptions, Colombians of different social classes still mostly look like they are from the same country - it is not as if the difference between upper-class and lower-class Colombians is akin to Swedes and Sri Lankans.

[Argentano]

I don't deny that, but my point is that the difference is less dramatic than some of you make out. With a few exceptions, Colombians of different social classes still mostly look like they are from the same country - it is not as if the difference between upper-class and lower-class Colombians is akin to Swedes and Sri Lankans.

when i speak about this dramatic difference..i mostly talk about argentina...where the difference is actually big...

i dont consider myself an expert in the rest of latinoamerica..

[Tooting Carmen]

when i speak about this dramatic difference..i mostly talk about argentina...where the difference is actually big...

But Argentina is one of the most homogeneously White countries in the Americas - rather more than the USA and Canada in fact - and inasmuch as there are more Mestizos and Amerindians now, it is because of mass immigration from Peru, Bolivia and Paraguay.

[Brighton]

It is not as if the difference between upper-class and lower-class Colombians is akin to Swedes and Sri Lankans.

It's kinda like that in Brazil though.. like this Morumbi Shopping in Sao Paulo was full of White people.. some of them looked Central European.. whilst this other shopping centre called Taboao da Serra, everyone was Black.. I mean not everyone but like a huge amount - clearly the majority.

[SupaThug]

It's kinda like that in Brazil though.. like this Morumbi Shopping in Sao Paulo was full of White people.. some of them looked Central European.. whilst this other shopping centre called Taboao da Serra, everyone was Black.. I mean not everyone but like a huge amount - clearly the majority.

Blacks are a minority anywhere in Brazil.It's impossible for a shopping center in Taboão da Serra have a black majority.It might be your impression since it had a higher amount of blacks than Morumbi shopping.The central european looking people you saw in Morumbi shopping were probably of northern italian ancestry.

[Brighton]

Blacks are a minority anywhere in Brazil.It's impossible for a shopping center in Taboão da Serra have a black majority.It might be your impression since it had a higher amount of blacks than Morumbi shopping.The central european looking people you saw in Morumbi shopping were probably of northern italian ancestry.
Have you ever been to that shopping?

Btw when I say "Black" I mean Black + Mulattoes.. we don't have Black people in Chile so for us -as for Americans and Europeans- a Mulatto is also within the "Black" group :P

[alnortedelsur]

Mostly harnizos and castizos, plus some balanced mestizos, and some fully whites here and there.

And nobody has said that the middle and upper classes in most Latin American countries are exclusively made up of whites and castizos. Exceptions always exist, and you obviously can find some heavily Amerindian admixed and/or black admixed people in the middle and upper class, but it is obvious that whites and Euro-mestizos clearly predominate in the middle and upper class, whilst indo-mestizos and/or trirracials or mulattoes (depending on the racial composition on every country) are going to be more present in the lower class.

At least in Venezuela, if you compare a bunch of people of lower class with a bunch of people of middle class, even though there can be some trirracials and mulattoes in the middle and upper class, and some Euro mestizos and balanced mestizos in the lower class, the difference between both groups, as a whole, is like day and night.

PS: This is talking about the most populated regions of Venezuela, where cities like Caracas, Maracay and Valencia are located, where there are many black admixed people, but also many fully white/quasi-white and castizo people, and hence, racial differences between lower class, and middle/upper class are more noticeable.

In inner regions of the country, that are racially more mestizo and more racially homogeneous on average, like the llanos (mostly mestizo) and the Andes (mostly Euro-mestizo), the racial difference between the lower, and middle/upper classes is not so marked, except that the Amerindian element is going to be more present in the lower class, and the white/harnizo/castizo element is going to be more present in the middle and upper class.

[SupaThug]

Have you ever been to that shopping?

Btw when I say "Black" I mean Black + Mulattoes.. we don't have Black people in Chile so for us -as for Americans and Europeans- a Mulatto is also within the "Black" group :P

I have been to Morumbi shopping and I have been to the city of Taboão da Serra.Only 9% of Taboão da Serra is black,most people there are pardos(who may look black to you,but are less than 50% SSA),off whites and a few whites.

[Brighton]

I have been to Morumbi shopping and I have been to the city of Taboão da Serra.Only 9% of Taboão da Serra is black,most people there are pardos(who may look black to you,but are less than 50% SSA),off whites and a few whites.

Well yah but at the end of the day Pardos are Mulattoes, hence Blacks.

[curupira]

Well yah but at the end of the day Pardos are Mulattoes, hence Blacks.


Ok so Brazil, being half White half Black (in American terms at least),

In the "American sense", you'd be just a native american and your country a huge native american reservation, since you and your country have large native american ancestral components.

Going by that twisted logic you and your country would be native americans and nothing more. You'd all fit the criteria to be settled in a native american reservation in the US. A large number of those living in native american reservations are just like you and your fellow countrymen. After all, Chile would be 44.34% (± 3.9%) native american, 51.85% (± 5.44%) european and 3.81% (± 0.45%) african, according to a 2014 study. Brazil, on the other hand, speaking of the country as a whole, is ~ 20 to 30% african % at most, and even then the rest is not only euro, but also native american.

Chile (2014 autosomal study):
http://www.scielo.cl/pdf/rmc/v142n3/art01.pdf
http://i60.tinypic.com/14y7t6d.jpg

Brazil, according to a 2013 autosomal study:


There are many different studies that contribute to the global picture of the ethnic heterogeneity in Brazilian populations. These studies use different types of genetic markers and are focused on the comparison of populations at different levels. In some of them, each geographical region is treated as a single homogeneous population, whereas other studies create different subdivisions: political (e.g., pooling populations by State), demographic (e.g., urban and rural), or ethnic (e.g., culture, self-declaration, or skin colour). In this study, we performed an enhancedreassessment of the genetic ancestry of ~ 1,300 Brazilians characterised for 46 autosomal Ancestry Informative Markers (AIMs).

In addition, 798 individuals from twelve Brazilian populations representing the five geographical macro-regions of Brazil were newly genotyped, including a Native American community and a rural Amazonian community. Following an increasing North to South gradient, European ancestry was the most prevalent in all urban populations (with values up to 74%). The populations in the North consisted of a significant proportion of Native American ancestry that was about two times higher than the African contribution. Conversely, in the Northeast, Center-West and Southeast, African ancestry was the second most prevalent. At an intrapopulation level, all urban populations were highly admixed, and most of the variation in ancestry proportions was observed between individuals within each population rather than among population. Nevertheless, individuals with a high proportion of Native American ancestry are only found in the samples from Terena and Santa Isabel. Our results allowed us to further refine the genetic landscape of Brazilians while establishing the basis for the effective application of an autosomal AIM panel in forensic casework and clinical association studies within the highly admixed Brazilian population
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchObject.action?uri=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjour nal.pone.0075145&representation=PDF

http://i44.tinypic.com/29lil3b.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/15nsqw3.jpg

Another study on Brazil, from 2011. The main difference from the 2011 study: the 2013 was based on random urban samples, the 2011 study was based on 'white', 'pardo' and 'black' samples according to their respective proportions. On this, the 2011 study may have had a better strategy. On the other hand, the 2013 studied focused on the urban population, which as they mentioned accounts for the vast majority of the Brazilian population. The 2011 autosomal study specifically aimed describing the composition of the country with samples from nearly all regions (almost 1000 samples), with "white", "pardo" and "black" samples according to their respective proportions. The samples came for the most part from blood donors (http://www.amigodoador.com.br/estatisticas.html), which for the most part belong to the poorest classes of Brazil, therefore socio-economic levels mirror somewhat the situation of Brazil, where most people belong to the lower strata of society.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063?imageURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0017063.g002

http://i49.tinypic.com/bydlu.png

[Brighton]

In the "American sense", you'd be just a native american and your country a huge native american reservation, since you and your country have large native american ancestral components.


You literally posted EXACTLY THE SAME in two different threads?

You're a sick fuck and I'm so done talking to an effing old man who's got nothing better to do than copying/pasting posts all over the effing forum.

You can go fuck yourself.

[Odin]

Mainly Harnizos and Mestizos.