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View Full Version : Did baseball begin in 18th-century England?



Groenewolf
06-14-2010, 04:57 PM
CNN (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/SPORT/06/01/lords.museum.baseball.cricket/?hpt=C2&imw=Y)


London, England (CNN) -- An extract from an 18th-century diary containing the oldest known reference to baseball is among the items on display in a new exhibition in London exploring the English origins and cricketing connections of America's national sport.

While baseball was once claimed to have been invented in the U.S. in the mid-19th century, recent findings suggest a sport of the same name may have evolved decades earlier alongside cricket, crossing the Atlantic with English settlers to the American colonies.

One notable discovery found in a shed in a village in Surrey, southern England, in 2008 was a handwritten 18th-century diary belonging to a local lawyer, William Bray.

"Went to Stoke church this morn.," wrote Bray on Easter Monday in 1755. "After dinner, went to Miss Jeale's to play at base ball with her the 3 Miss Whiteheads, Miss Billinghurst, Miss Molly Flutter, Mr. Chandler, Mr. Ford and H. Parsons. Drank tea and stayed til 8."
Gallery: Baseball's English origins

Julian Pooley, a historian at the Surrey History Centre who verified the diary, said Bray's precise printing of the words "base ball" suggested the sport may have been new to him.

"He writes in a particular type of handwriting but when he comes across a new word he often wrote it in a clear way as if he wanted to remember it," Pooley told CNN.

[...]

Rest at the above link.

Lenny
06-14-2010, 06:26 PM
"You can find all sorts of routes to the game, but the bottom line is that baseball is an American game," Shieber told CNN. "This is where it grew up, this is where it was embraced. Just because the latest evidence shows that there was a game called, of all things, baseball [in England] doesn't mean you have to call it an English sport.
He's right, of course.

If we accept the logic of "Baseball began in England", the next logical thing would be to say the game is really a Cro-Magnon invention in 30,000-B.C. Europe... Because I'm sure someone back then hit a rock with a stick for fun, too!

General Doubleday laid out the rules as they exist today, by 1840. It went from disorganized and obscure origins to a proper game because of him. By the 1850s, there were already semi-professional American players.

Imperivm
06-14-2010, 06:46 PM
Well I think this report is fair, of course America has made Baseball the game it is now, but it obviously had some influence from rounders/cricket and the English colonialists. Cricket and Baseball have been looking at each others roots for 30 or so years now, for instance the first international test match was between the USA and Canada...

Beorn
06-14-2010, 08:20 PM
The English invented most things. The Americans simply took this sport and made it into the tedious display it is today.

Treffie
06-14-2010, 10:38 PM
The English invented most things. The Americans simply took this sport and made it into the tedious display it is today.

Baseball is a girl's game, I think they call it Rounders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounders) :p

Graham
06-15-2010, 06:58 PM
The English invented most things. The Americans simply took this sport and made it into the tedious display it is today.

Both cricket and baseball are boring, but at least baseball doesn't last for days. Cricket makes baseball look good to watch.



Baseball is a girl's game, I think they call it Rounders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounders) :p

haven't played rounders since I was like 9 years old.

Allenson
06-15-2010, 07:20 PM
The English invented most things. The Americans simply took this sport and made it into the tedious display it is today.

It's a great game, really. I grew up playing and watching--so thanks, bro! :thumb001:



Baseball is a girl's game,

Tell that to these guys.

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//Headline_Archives/BDD_pudge_bgfile.jpg

Allenson
06-15-2010, 07:22 PM
We start 'em young here in New England. Guaranteed this kids last name is O'Brien or Sullivan.

http://www.moonbattery.com/Red-Sox_fan.jpg

Fortis in Arduis
06-15-2010, 08:30 PM
Rounders is the version of baseball that I played at school.

It is practially the same thing.

I must have stopped playing that at around eleven years old.