classify Estonian singer

[esaima]

She was in the same band with Lenna.
Natural hair color may be light brown, not very tall, maybe 160 cm.

http://y.delfi.ee/norm/93134/4617152_YK3LwB.jpeg

http://vanilla-ninja.websnadno.cz/WTIC015.jpg

http://f.elu24.ee/f/2007/07/17/110t9h8f1d.jpg

http://s.ohtuleht.ee/multimedia/images/000028/6F74E604-D980-48C4-BEC1-34F9DD7AB863.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/it/3/30/Maarja_Kivi.jpg

http://maarja.blox.pl/resource/maarjakivi.jpg

[Pallantides]

East Nordid+Pontid?

[esaima]

Maybe pontid sounds too exotic for her?
And I have to correct myself-she may be 165 cm.
And is she Nordid?She has not narrow lips.
Some more pictures
http://vnwithmaarja.blox.pl/resource/46de3d4d4babb3d9835fc9c20d8b2dad.jpg
http://s.ohtuleht.ee/multimedia/images/000072/bfd8b922-0128-4820-b6fb-eed9fcf75e79.jpg
http://static1.nagi.ee/i/p/79/90/005379901f4206_o.jpg/1

[Äike]

Baltid-Nordid

[Äike]

East Nordid+Pontid?

Aren't Pontids most common in Bulgaria and Romania? They are also found in the Caucasus and in Ukraine.

As far as I know, Pontids do not exist in Northern-Europe.

[esaima]

Thanks, Karl.will anyone else classify her as well?

[kwp_wp]

I must say her type of beauty is capable of providing different kind of looks.
As for classification: Nordid component is quite visible plus minor West Baltid IMO
interesting and attractive look

[esaima]

Aren't Pontids most common in Bulgaria and Romania? They are also found in the Caucasus and in Ukraine.

As far as I know, Pontids do not exist in Northern-Europe.

Indeed, the look of this beautiful girl is Estonian, she doesnt look me "Caucasian" or "Balkanoid" IMO.

[Pallantides]

In Norway she'd look rather foreign imo, but it was the dark hair that made me think pontid in the first place since it's a eastern variant of Atlantid and she does look Eastern European in my opinion.

[Äike]

In Norway she'd look rather foreign imo, but it was the dark hair that made me think pontid in the first place since it's a eastern variant of Atlantid and she does look Eastern European in my opinion.

Dying the hair black isn't rare here and aren't Baltids called "Osteuropid"?

I do agree with you that dark brunettes look foreign in a Northern-European country like Estonia.

[nisse]

In Norway she'd look rather foreign imo, but it was the dark hair that made me think pontid in the first place since it's a eastern variant of Atlantid and she does look Eastern European in my opinion.

Interestingly, her look is pretty commonplace in Ukraine...

[Pallantides]

Dying the hair black isn't rare here and aren't Baltids called "Osteuropid"?

I do agree with you that dark brunettes look foreign in a Northern-European country like Estonia.

It's not her hair colour wich looks foreign but her appearance combined with darker hair wich give a pontid look, dark brunettes are quite common in Scandinavia, majority of Norwegians have brown hair and it's nothing foreign in Northern Europe.

[Äike]

Interestingly, her look is pretty commonplace in Ukraine...

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17781

He would not look out of place in the region of Ukraine I am from (esp. the nose and eye shape), although his hair colour would be considered a bit too light for his age.

Are you trying to make people think that Ukrainians look like Northern-Europeans?

I live in Tallinn and have seen a fair share of Ukrainians.

[Äike]

It's not her hair colour, dark brunettes are quite common in Scandinavia, majority of Norwegians have brown hair and it's nothing foreign in Northern Europe.

Dark brunette and light brown hair isn't the same thing. I do not know about Norway, but the most common hair color here is dark blond or light brown.

Dark brunette:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2239/2181049720_5387637b02_m.jpg

light brown:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VWHYRedmLtM/SclFj0il5bI/AAAAAAAAAc4/NJft3Suy33c/s400/hair.jpg

[Pallantides]

light brown and dark blonde is the most common hair color, but dark brown is also quite common here.



Jennifer Connelly have Norwegian ancestry on her paternal side.:)

[Äike]

light brown is the most common hair color, but dark brown is also quite common here.



Jennifer Connelly have Norwegian ancestry on her paternal side.:)

In the 1920's and 30's, 71.8% of Estonians had blond hair, I think the percentage has slightly decreased with Estonians interbreeding with the immigrants. For instance, I have a cousin who has dark brunette hair and she is 1/4 Ukrainian.

[nisse]

Are you trying to make people think that Ukrainians look like Northern-Europeans?
ROFL...yeah...I dream of nothing but establishing the Northern-European looks of Ukrainians. :rolleyes:. Actually, Ukrainians are one of the most diverse ethnicities as far as looks go, imo.

This Norwegian (IMO stereotypical Northener) would look out of place in Ukraine (sadly :cry):
http://www.ohlalaparis.com/photos/uncategorized/tdf200602.jpg

This Estonian (the dark hair was not intentional) would also look out of place:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Estonian_identity_card,_2007.jpg

And FYI - some Ukrainians do look like some Estonians and Norwegians (as I suggested in the two threads you quoted)...may be not all Estonians or Norwegians have some special and highly unique stereotypical Northern-European looks *gasp*.


I live in Tallinn and have seen a fair share of Ukrainians.
ROFL yet again...don't compare your sample size (living in a city less than 1/2 million city with 3.8% Ukrianian population) to my sample size (born in a city of over a million in Ukraine and having travelled around the country).

[Äike]

ROFL...yeah...I dream of nothing but establishing the Northern-European looks of Ukrainians. :rolleyes:. Actually, Ukrainians are one of the most diverse ethnicities as far as looks go, imo.

This Norwegian (IMO stereotypical Northener) would look out of place in Ukraine (sadly :cry):
http://www.ohlalaparis.com/photos/uncategorized/tdf200602.jpg

This Estonian (the dark hair was not intentional) would also look out of place:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Estonian_identity_card,_2007.jpg

Everyone have dark hair on Estonian ID-cards, even if you're blond. If you have brown hair, then it will look black on the ID-card. The guy on the ID-card isn't Estonian, btw.


And FYI - some Ukrainians do look like some Estonians and Norwegians (as I suggested in the two threads you quoted)...may be not all Estonians or Norwegians have some special and highly unique stereotypical Northern-European looks *gasp*.

Some Ukrainians look similar to Estonians and other Northerners, because of Russian immigrants(probably from NW-Russia as NW-Russians are Finnic and can look Northern). I have also met Ukrainians who do not stick out that much, but the majority of them are dark.


ROFL yet again...don't compare your sample size (living in a city less than 1/2 million city with 3.8% Ukrianian population) to my sample size (born in a city of over a million in Ukraine and having travelled around the country).

You live in Canada, when was the last time you saw any Ukrainians?

[Saruman]

Baltid with Nordid influence.

[nisse]

Some Ukrainians look similar to Estonians and other Northerners, because of Russian immigrants(probably from NW-Russia as NW-Russians are Finnic and can look Northern). I have also met Ukrainians who do not stick out that much, but the majority of them are dark.
I deal in facts: some *ethnic* Ukrainians look like the woman posted in this thread. That's all I've said and that's all I can say. I leave it to you to speculate on the why...or whatever else you chose to speculate on (such as my motives :rolleyes:).


]You live in Canada, when was the last time you saw any Ukrainians?
1. I just looked at myself in the mirror...and saw my parents this morning...I saw my (Ukrainian) hairdresser last evening and saw the family that lives two floors above me and is Ukrainian.
2. Ukrainians are one of the largest minorities in Canada and make up 3.9% of the country's population, they are ~2.5% of the population of Toronto (where I reside)...and seeing as how I don't have any slavophobia and am actually Ukrainian, I probably see a lot more Ukrainians on a daily (or any other) basis than you, despite the fact that I don't live in Ukraine right now.
3. I visited my family in *Ukraine* for a month just over a month ago.

[Äike]

I deal in facts: some *ethnic* Ukrainians look like the woman posted in this thread. That's all I've said and that's all I can say. I leave it to you to speculate on the why...or whatever else you chose to speculate on (such as my motives :rolleyes:).

I have said this before and I will repeat it. If the Slavic immigrants in Estonia would look like us, then I wouldn't have a problem with them being here. Only a small minority of them look like us and they descend from the assimilated Finno-Ugrics in (mostly NW-)Russia.


1. I just looked at myself in the mirror...and saw my parents this morning...I saw my (Ukrainian) hairdresser last evening and saw the family that lives two floors above me and is Ukrainian.
2. Ukrainians are one of the largest minorities in Canada and make up 3.9% of the country's population, they are ~2.5% of the population of Toronto (where I reside)...and seeing as how I don't have any slavophobia and am actually Ukrainian, I probably see a lot more Ukrainians on a daily (or any other) basis than you, despite the fact that I don't live in Ukraine right now.
3. I visited my family in *Ukraine* for a month just over a month ago.

I do not have slavophobia... I could bet my savings on the fact that the majority of people in this forum dislike immigrants in their country, I am no exception.

[Ilya.S]

I have said this before and I will repeat it. If the Slavic immigrants in Estonia would look like us, then I wouldn't have a problem with them being here. Only a small minority of them look like us and they descend from the assimilated Finno-Ugrics in (mostly NW-)Russia.
So, the biggest problem you have with Russian immigrants is their looks/phenotype?

[Äike]

So, the biggest problem you have with Russian immigrants is their looks/phenotype?

The biggest problem is that they refuse to integrate and cause the majority of crime.

Russians differ from Northern-Europeans quite a lot, culturally.

[Ilya.S]

If the Slavic immigrants in Estonia would look like us, then I wouldn't have a problem with them being here.
but you said that:)

[nisse]

I have said this before and I will repeat it. If the Slavic immigrants in Estonia would look like us, then I wouldn't have a problem with them being here. Only a small minority of them look like us and they descend from the assimilated Finno-Ugrics in (mostly NW-)Russia.
I wasn't talking about the majority of *Russian* immigrants in Estonia, I was talking about this particular Estonian and the fact that her look is common in Ukraine.


I do not have slavophobia... I could bet my savings on the fact that the majority of people in this forum dislike immigrants in their country, I am no exception.
Yes you do :D. You don't only avoid Slavs in Estonia (because you are apparently afraid of getting mugged or getting HIV), you are also afraid of Russia...as you like, but that's not really a valid reason to deny things that happen to be true or make statements on subjects you know little about.

[Guapo]

As far as I know, Pontids do not exist in Northern-Europe.

There are according to Coon, remnants of Indo-European speakers.

[Hweinlant]

You don't only avoid Slavs in Estonia (because you are apparently afraid of getting mugged or getting HIV)

Dislike of Russians does not qualify as Slavophobia.

[Äike]

but you said that:)

That's just one of the factors.


I wasn't talking about the majority of *Russian* immigrants in Estonia, I was talking about this particular Estonian and the fact that her look is common in Ukraine.

Northern looks are more common even among Russians than Ukrainians.


Yes you do :D. You don't only avoid Slavs in Estonia (because you are apparently afraid of getting mugged or getting HIV), you are also afraid of Russia...as you like, but that's not really a valid reason to deny things that happen to be true or make statements on subjects you know little about.

I do not avoid (http://www.filehurricane.com/viewerthumbnails/429200824725PM_488.jpg) Slavs... I am also not afraid of being mugged nor getting HIV. Getting mugged isn't very probable if you do not walk around in the Russian slums with something expensive. The chances of getting HIV are zero if I do not have sex with Russians and use protection. The majority of HIV-infected people in Estonia are drug addicts who share needles with each other and the majority of drug addicts in Estonia are Russians.

[esaima]

the most common hair color here is dark blond or light brown.
light brown:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VWHYRedmLtM/SclFj0il5bI/AAAAAAAAAc4/NJft3Suy33c/s400/hair.jpg

This hair color is not light brown IMO.It is (significantly) lighter than light brown.

IMHO, it´s not so good "to trust" women´s haircolor-it "changes" permanently, at least in Estonia.;)At the same time -men pretty seldom dye their hair in Estonia, because Estonia is a conservative post-soviet country and dying hair will be simply considered a bit gayish.;)
But very many Estonians have haircolour which changes seasonally: sun makes it lighter in summer.
I have myself Brad Pitt´s haircolor, I have never dyed them...:D And I have noticed that according to estonian standards I am not dark, no blond.
In old black-and white pictures I look nearly dark-haired, in new color pictures, made in summer and in bright sunshine, I look nearly blond.I have an average "Estonoid" haircolor, I think.sometimes it is called potato-shell;)

[esaima]

In Norway she'd look rather foreign imo, but it was the dark hair that made me think pontid in the first place since it's a eastern variant of Atlantid and she does look Eastern European in my opinion.
Yes, I agree.She looks Easteuropean, indeed.And Estonian, even very Estonian, I´d say;)
Hehe, maybe there are two main types of Estonians: some who look like Lenna( Nordic!) and some who look like East-Slavs (and our linguistical relatives, like Mordvinians;).

[esaima]

Are you trying to make people think that Ukrainians look like Northern-Europeans?


I dont think that Estonians and Ukrainians look same but
as far as I know there is in fact no special "Northern-European subrace".

Well, don´t know much about Ukrainians but generally Eastern-Slavs were said to be genetically pretty close to Estonians. Thus, the traits can not be extremely different.
I dont think that Estonians and Ukrainians look same but i dont think they are as different as you trying to make people think.I have visited some Ukrainian dating sites (hehe, no, i dont need an e-mail bride;)-i am just interested in how they look:)

[Äike]

This hair color is not light brown IMO.It is (significantly) lighter than light brown.


I did Google light brown hair.


Yes, I agree.She looks Easteuropean, indeed.And Estonian, even very Estonian, I´d say;)
Hehe, maybe there are two main types of Estonians: some who look like Lenna( Nordic!) and some who look like East-Slavs (and our linguistical relatives, like Mordvinians;).

There's the Nordish race (http://www.racialcompact.com/nordishrace.html) and Lenna does look Nordic, if Baltids are Nordic.

You have slave mentality... Estonians do not look like East-Slavs. East-Slavs looks like Estonians because of the large amount of assimilated Finno-Ugrics. NW-Russians are a good example.

Saying that Estonians look like East-Slavs is the same as saying that British people look like Americans. If you get my point.

http://www.tribwatch.com/mapChudes.png



I dont think that Estonians and Ukrainians look same but
as far as I know there is in fact no special "Northern-European subrace".

There is the Nordish race.


Well, don´t know much about Ukrainians but generally Eastern-Slavs were said to be genetically pretty close to Estonians. Thus, the traits can not be extremely different.

Eastern-Slavs is an extremely wide term, even saying Russians would be a bit too much.

North-Western Russians are genetically close to Estonians and Finns, if that's what you wanted to say.


I dont think that Estonians and Ukrainians look same but i dont think they are as different as you trying to make people think.I have visited some Ukrainian dating sites (hehe, no, i dont need an e-mail bride;)-i am just interested in how they look:)

If Estonians and Ukrainians aren't different, then Southern- and Northern-Europeans do not exist and all the flame wars(in this forum) between the representatives of those 2 European groups are pointless as they aren't different at all.

[Pallantides]

There's the Nordish race (http://www.racialcompact.com/nordishrace.html)
Lol someone must never have visited Norway


Norway = 45% Trønder (most common in the west), 30% Hallstatt Nordic (most common in the southeast area around Oslo), 10% Borreby (most common in the southwest), 7% Fälish (most common in the south), 5% East Baltic (most common in the far north), 3% Palaeo-Atlantid (found in western coastal areas) = 100% Nordish (92% central and 8% periphery types)


Such crap.

[Äike]

Lol someone must never have visited Norway




Such crap.

All pseudo-sciences are crap ;)

[Tomasz]

Yes, I agree.She looks Easteuropean, indeed.And Estonian, even very Estonian, I´d say;)
Hehe, maybe there are two main types of Estonians: some who look like Lenna( Nordic!) and some who look like East-Slavs (and our linguistical relatives, like Mordvinians;).

Yes, I agree!

From my own impression (which might not be 100% accurate) those Estonians, who live closer to the Baltic coast, seem to be more Nordid. On the other hand, more we go away from the coast and closer to Russia, more Osteuropid elements we find.

By the way, I think some of you make mistake trying to group Eastern Slavs or Russians as racially homogenous group. Russia is the biggest country on the Earth and there are numerous racial types. Some of Russians look Osteuropid, some Alpinid, some Nordid. Even if these Russians, who live in Estonia are relatively homogenous, it doesn't mean that rest is. So it's wrong to generalize them.

And I agree that many NW Russians are in fact derived from Finno-Ugrians.


All pseudo-sciences are crap

There are a lot of outdated concepts in this whole "Nordish race" by McCulloh. Well, this site often confused me, because one can for example read that:

Fälish, Dalofalid or Dalo-Nordic type (Nordic-Borreby blend; names from Fälen [German for "plain"] and Dalarna region of Sweden (Kopparberg); primary element on the north German plain, Jutland and the Swedish province of Kopparberg)
Which is total bullshit.

[Äike]

Yes, exactly!

From my own impression (which might not be 100% accurate) those Estonians, who live closer to the Baltic coast, seem to be more Nordid. On the other hand, more we go away from the coast and closer to Russia, more Osteuropid elements we find.

There's a significant difference between Western- and Eastern-Estonia. It's a lot warmer on the Western-Estonian islands in the winter than in Eastern-Estonia and the mainland. That's one of the reasons why Western-Estonians aren't so borealized.


By the way, I think some of you make mistake trying to group Eastern Slavs or Russians as racially homogenous group. Russia is the biggest country on the Earth and there are numerous racial types. Some of Russians look Osteuropid, some Alpinid, some Nordid. Even if these Russians, who live in Estonia are relatively homogenous, it doesn't mean that rest is. So it's wrong to generalize them.

Indeed, Russians are extremely diverse. I can see it with my own eyes, daily. They are probably the most diverse Europeans.

[Aviane]

Yes, I agree.She looks Easteuropean, indeed.And Estonian, even very Estonian, I´d say;)
Hehe, maybe there are two main types of Estonians: some who look like Lenna( Nordic!) and some who look like East-Slavs (and our linguistical relatives, like Mordvinians;).

She can't be anymore than being a Eastern European.

But anyways she is East Baltid/Pontid.

[Äike]

If I would get 1 euro, every time I see an Estonian Pontid...



...Then I would have 0 euros :D



Mediterranid subtype. Pontids are found in greatest concentration in southeastern Europe (the Balkans, southern Romania, the Ukraine), and predominate in regions immediately adjacent to the Black Sea (including parts of the Caucasus), after which Bunak named the type (Pontic; to the ancient Greeks, the Black or Euxine Sea was known as Pontos, "the Sea"). The type is tall (yet not as tall as the Atlanto-Mediterranid type) and quite gracile, with smooth facial features, and is characterized by a high skull, a narrow forehead, somewhat narrow apertures of the eyes, and a lighter pigmentation compared to the Mediterranid mean. Cf. North-Pontid.

http://www.lostrepublic.us/Graphics/DoubleFacePalm.jpg

[Tomasz]

I wonder, why - wnenever someone is classified - someone will ALWAYS come up with Pontid. Regardless of ethnicity. :wink

By the way - Pallantides, in which part of Norway do you live?

[Mordid]

If Pontid have light eye colour, should they be North Pontid ?

[Pallantides]

I wonder, why - wnenever someone is classified - someone will ALWAYS come up with Pontid. Regardless of ethnicity. :wink

By the way - Pallantides, in which part of Norway do you live?

East Norway:
http://www.holidayvillaworld.com/maps/europe-bak/east-norway.jpg

[Äike]

If Pontid have light eye colour, should they be North Pontid ?

No. The difference between North-Pontid and Pontid isn't just in complexion.

Pontid (Bulgarian) woman, with light eyes, from SNPA:
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/pontid.jpg

[Mordid]

No. The difference between North-Pontid and Pontid isn't just in complexion.
So what's the difference North Pontifd and Pontid ?

[Äike]

So what's the difference North Pontifd and Pontid ?

Why won't you just visit the SNPA (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm)?


PONTID (Cherkess type)

Mediterranid subtype. Pontids are found in greatest concentration in southeastern Europe (the Balkans, southern Romania, the Ukraine), and predominate in regions immediately adjacent to the Black Sea (including parts of the Caucasus), after which Bunak named the type (Pontic; to the ancient Greeks, the Black or Euxine Sea was known as Pontos, "the Sea"). The type is tall (yet not as tall as the Atlanto-Mediterranid type) and quite gracile, with smooth facial features, and is characterized by a high skull, a narrow forehead, somewhat narrow apertures of the eyes, and a lighter pigmentation compared to the Mediterranid mean.


NORTH-PONTID

Sometimes used of Nordid/Corded-Pontid intermediates, typical of e.g. the Ukrainian population.

[Mordid]

I dont see the difference between North Pontid and Pontid because they have higher vault, light eye, light skin, dark hair and they are dolicephalic but i reckon that North Pontid are probably taller than average Pontid.

The link you send me doesn't proof me enough. all i need is a picture of Pontid and North Pontid type so i might see the difference.

[kwp_wp]

Why won't you just visit the SNPA (http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm)?
yup,
or just google it...;)

[esaima]

If I would get 1 euro, every time I see an Estonian Pontid...



Yes, i agree to you if we talk about typical Estonians- yes, they don´t look Pontid.
But there are some people among ethnic Estonians who look for some reason untypical and there may be some Pontids among them.

My humble opinion is that this singer girl (Maarja Kivi) we are trying to classify doesn´t look Pontid just because her traits are not untypical.

[esaima]

My post is out of topic but there is a mistake in SNPA
http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm
Celebrity examples (mostly generalized Baltids):
Jaan Ehlvest is not a Lithuanian, he is an Estonian:)