Main phenotypes of these Kabyles

[Sebastianus Rex]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabyle_people

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12805944_538955542937814_9215979556625929547_n.jpg ?oh=682e040be8289744d44be2429396b4e2&oe=5878CC23

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14045874_615480128618688_7796521485454070176_n.jpg ?oh=cf6e8370be1d17efe8652ac38f43f487&oe=58736CA1

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14095696_615480391951995_1035924961857608629_n.jpg ?oh=423a2c28cb3f90378dcce2d9529732a2&oe=5883D7A7

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14079652_615496301950404_8774365681252471501_n.jpg ?oh=f1b5c0a5322ae69301d8f36f80dce370&oe=587ADCDB

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14089320_615496545283713_7864695024098412897_n.jpg ?oh=aafed72a42e3f53c8f9a52bfeca2c882&oe=58858F42

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14040040_615497465283621_6165944946525290732_n.jpg ?oh=9b733d5cfc6b3d1a8ae6cc700914479f&oe=587F61E9

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14054234_615545105278857_6559761769261865777_n.jpg ?oh=3a200d12014eabf91b28afbfe9205ba4&oe=586F88E2

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14089232_615545431945491_5108221537166085269_n.jpg ?oh=9c2d80e91a473b7a165845c1f6762ffd&oe=587EE844

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14089025_615545671945467_4984925095845019713_n.jpg ?oh=f883a7422b8cdf582ffe066cab916a44&oe=587CC909

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14040138_615545758612125_7882466599130198812_n.jpg ?oh=83fd6f0bfae3015c70470ca80ad99dd8&oe=587F06C8

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12805837_538953439604691_630407186271196046_n.jpg? oh=da7045d6b2c341ba2dcb747d4c972fb5&oe=587165E7

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12803119_538953819604653_7304955874848663722_n.jpg ?oh=db9defd265ff0ddbc30a5ecd6262216d&oe=5877E67D

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12799069_538954592937909_8338046899126628223_n.jpg ?oh=9191296ab93e50298754b562da02fd7f&oe=586EA4BB

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12806166_538954702937898_5343635148066444522_n.jpg ?oh=db4f3b6a7c859f6ec5ad9c4fa1cb0276&oe=586C49F0

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12794391_538955592937809_635543584987715594_n.jpg? oh=e9a838a4fca3d025b9f11a05bf1fde35&oe=583E81C1

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12801364_538955726271129_2991907281185959881_n.jpg ?oh=fc4428cb47084d3ae1d1e6d05b51a980&oe=584044FF

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10455575_538955806271121_8013153843052604475_n.jpg ?oh=e92a8c555a9a08c820939becbcfa6c66&oe=58710F3F

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12814451_538956046271097_2826720688306381459_n.jpg ?oh=9c8843a4b456c9bb5aaf74b22409f684&oe=5838904F

[Seth MacFarlane]

Med. , berberid , many can pass south europe

[Sebastianus Rex]

Med. , berberid , many can pass south europe

I believe they are alot more diversified than that but thanks anyway.

[sweetalmonds]

Most of them look Berberid + GracileMed/Saharid hybrids. Lightest ones even look Canarid-influenced (Berberid+Nordid).

[Azad Beg]

The lighter ones have French ancestry...duh.

[crazyladybutterfly]

i honestly believe these were cherry-picked. not by you , you must have taken the random pictures you have found. a good example of a kabyle family is zidane family, only he looks european

[Tooting Carmen]

While undoubtedly they can produce some light types, I bet at least some of these are French-Berber mixes (there was far more intermarriage in French Algeria than you'd find in any British colony). In fact, looking through the list of French people of Berber descent on the wikipedia link itself, many of them are only half or even a quarter Berber.

[crazyladybutterfly]

i dont think they must have french ancestry. during prehistory whg moved from iberia to north africa

[crazyladybutterfly]

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12814451_538956046271097_2826720688306381459_n.jpg ?oh=9c8843a4b456c9bb5aaf74b22409f684&oe=5838904F

this pictures shows what i mean. i have to say that it is funny how this little girl is being praised only for looking european lol

[Tooting Carmen]

Algerian footballers:

http://www.africatopsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/doukha.jpghttp://www.footalgerien.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Malik-Asselah.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Carl_Medjani.jpg/800px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Carl_Medjani.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Aissa_Mandi.jpg/800px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Aissa_Mandi.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Stade_rennais_vs_USM_Alger%2C_July_16th_2016_-_Mehdi_Zeffane_3.jpg/800px-Stade_rennais_vs_USM_Alger%2C_July_16th_2016_-_Mehdi_Zeffane_3.jpghttp://www.footalgerien.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Mehdi-Tahrat1.jpghttp://cdn-pictures.namez.com/pictures/4615/cropped/GJdMAGWWJm3OKUwweU7HAuBtmk0tqUoLqXOU-XOu40O-PvwhpgVjUTKlawnzzJO4Bc8ziti02112011.jpghttp://www.faf.dz/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/FERHANI-HOUARI-JSK.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Faouzi_Ghoulam.jpg/800px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Faouzi_Ghoulam.jpghttp://cdn.lebuteur.com/data/images/article/thumbs/large-lentraineur-de-nacional-madeira-confirme-larrivee-de-hicham-belkaroui-28082.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c1/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Sofiane_Feghouli.jpg/800px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Sofiane_Feghouli.jpghttp://www.gcrbooks.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Riyad-Mahrez.jpghttp://www.arsenal.com/assets/_files/scaled/794x500/oct_15/gun__1445873252_Players_Bennacer.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/Ryad-Boudebouz4.jpghttps://www.fclweb.fr/sites/default/files/12106_mesloub_walid_fc_lorient-16_980x1242.jpghttp://www.olympique-et-lyonnais.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Ghezzal-portrait-recadr%C3%A9-816x544.jpg?a5e28ehttp://iammedia101.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/TottenhamHotspurFCTrainingSessionF8NFHu-spcax.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Saphir_Taider.jpg/800px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Saphir_Taider.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Shahter-Portu_%285%29.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Rostov-Anderleht_%288%29_%E2%80%94_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0% B8%D1%8F.jpg

[Tooting Carmen]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/CSKA_Sporting_%2812%29.jpg/200px-CSKA_Sporting_%2812%29.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Hilal_Soudani.jpg/220px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Hilal_Soudani.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/U-19_EC-Qualifikation_Austria_vs._France_2013-06-10_%28120%29.jpg/200px-U-19_EC-Qualifikation_Austria_vs._France_2013-06-10_%28120%29.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Stade_rennais_vs_USM_Alger%2C_July_16th_2016_-_Mohamed_Lamine_Zemmamouche.jpg/220px-Stade_rennais_vs_USM_Alger%2C_July_16th_2016_-_Mohamed_Lamine_Zemmamouche.jpghttp://www.dzfoot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/khedairai_29102014.jpghttp://www.dzfoot.com/effectifs/photos/photo_jeannin_mehdi_30092015.jpghttp://www.africatopsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Nacereddine-Khoualed.jpghttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/AB1K2-nwMQw/hqdefault.jpghttp://www.africatopsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/S%C3%A9tif-Abdelghani-Demmou.jpghttp://www.annasronline.com/images/images/sport/2015/nat/personalite/benayada6-6-15.gifhttp://www.dzfoot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/a_hachoud_ph_en1.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Stade_rennais_vs_USM_Alger%2C_July_16th_2016_-_25.jpg/800px-Stade_rennais_vs_USM_Alger%2C_July_16th_2016_-_25.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Djamel_Eddine_Mesbah.jpg/800px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Djamel_Eddine_Mesbah.jpghttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Rafik_Halliche.jpg/220px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Rafik_Halliche.jpghttp://www.dknews-dz.com/data/images/article/thumbs/d-na-hussein-dey-sollicite-par-vitoria-guimaraes-bendebka-restera-au-nasria-manager-general-ff112.jpghttp://www.nufc.co.uk/javaImages/3a/39/0,,10278~13121850,00.jpghttps://www.newsghana.com.gh/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/wpid-ahmed-kashi-fcmetz.jpghttp://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/assets/belfodil-806x537.jpghttp://images.supersport.com/2014/12/Baghdad%20Bounedjah%20-%20Coaching-foot.jpghttp://www.ogcnissa.com/effectif/photos/BenrahmaSaid/BenrahmaSaid-132014.jpg

[MysteriousWays]

For the football players, I'd say mostly a mix of Saharid (South Med), some that looks almost Atlanto-Med, and a smaller group, but still decently sized, that are Berberid.

[MysteriousWays]

A few also look pseudo-Dinaric to me, but it could just be from some sort of CM component.

[Sacrificed Ram]

I my country, the children tend to born blond and blue eyed, when born close to american military base...

What does occur close to a french base?

[XenophobicPrussian]

The lighter ones have French ancestry...duh.
French ancestry in North Africa is nearly non-existant. It's North African HG I think. The higher amount of y-dna I in North Africa compared to the rest of the Middle-East(France isn't really known for haplogroup I anyway) and the mystery of the Guanches also supports this. We should see soon enough, there will be mesolithic/neolithic North African genomes released this year.

[crazyladybutterfly]

I my country, the children tend to born blond and blue eyed, when born close to american military base...

What does occur close to a french base?

ahahah really?

[crazyladybutterfly]

come on .. this is the MAIN phenotype of kabyle? almost black? lol

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Hilal_Soudani.jpg/220px-Alg%C3%A9rie_-_Arm%C3%A9nie_-_20140531_-_Hilal_Soudani.jpg

[crazyladybutterfly]

A few also look pseudo-Dinaric to me, but it could just be from some sort of CM component.

http://www.nufc.co.uk/javaImages/3a/39/0,,10278~13121850,00.jpg
this guy looks the most CM influenced one

[MysteriousWays]

http://www.nufc.co.uk/javaImages/3a/39/0,,10278~13121850,00.jpg
this guy looks the most CM influenced one

That one is probably the most, but many of them have CM influence near the jaw I think, and some others do near the cheeks. It's mostly in lesser amounts than in people I would consider primarily CM, and I don't think it's a dominant influence on that many of them, but it still looks obvious to me in some degree on many of them.

[Sebastianus Rex]

The lighter ones have French ancestry...duh.

You don't know what you are talking about. Relatively high frequencies of blondism among certain more genetically isolated Berber groups like Kabyles and Riffian highlanders are well documented by many anthropological studies.

Also the European admixture among North Africans is significantly higher than in other MENA peoples, the question is that they absorved high quantities of SSA during the last 1000 years because of the Arab slave trade and continuous migrations, yet the people who have remained more isolated and unmixed show a relatively high degree of Europoid phenotypes and light features.


While undoubtedly they can produce some light types, I bet at least some of these are French-Berber mixes (there was far more intermarriage in French Algeria than you'd find in any British colony). In fact, looking through the list of French people of Berber descent on the wikipedia link itself, many of them are only half or even a quarter Berber.

Blondism cases among certain Berber groups are documented to be above 10% and so their european admixture is considerably higher than among other MENA peoples and that has nothing to do with French-Algerian marriages, wich is a negligible factor, besides French-Algerians were "pied-noirs" who lived ostly in the urban centers like Algiers, Oran etc along the coastline, these people are mostly inlanders who live in relatively mountainous regions.

There's also several historical sources that point a decent number of Moorish monarchs who possesed light features. Realize that original North Africans as still can be seen relatively preserved among some ethnic groups were racially much different than the average reality now after 1000 years of intense Arab slave trade (estimated 18 million people trafficked) and ongoing sub-saharan migrations.


https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12814451_538956046271097_2826720688306381459_n.jpg ?oh=9c8843a4b456c9bb5aaf74b22409f684&oe=5838904F

this pictures shows what i mean. i have to say that it is funny how this little girl is being praised only for looking european lol

And what's the problem with that? It's a healthy thing that peoples who also produce those light characteristics to praise them, it's part of their heritage, only self-haters and those who can't produce them are the ones who don't love blond children.


Algerian footballers:



Thanks for spoiling my thread with the ugly faces of those Algerian footballers. :picard2: This thread is not about the average average Algerian phenotypes but specifically about the Kabyle people/women.

[crazyladybutterfly]

And what's the problem with that? It's a healthy thing that peoples who also produce those light characteristics to praise them, it's part of their heritage, only self-haters and those who can't produce them are the ones who don't love blond children.
.

maybe you dont know the difference between loving blonde kids like any other kids and treating them as if they were gods lol

[crazyladybutterfly]

That one is probably the most, but many of them have CM influence near the jaw I think, and some others do near the cheeks. It's mostly in lesser amounts than in people I would consider primarily CM, and I don't think it's a dominant influence on that many of them, but it still looks obvious to me in some degree on many of them.

most of them have a v-shaped jaw

[crazyladybutterfly]

That one is probably the most, but many of them have CM influence near the jaw I think, and some others do near the cheeks. It's mostly in lesser amounts than in people I would consider primarily CM, and I don't think it's a dominant influence on that many of them, but it still looks obvious to me in some degree on many of them.

most of them have a v-shaped jaw

[Sebastianus Rex]

The lighter ones have French ancestry...duh.


i honestly believe these were cherry-picked. not by you , you must have taken the random pictures you have found. a good example of a kabyle family is zidane family, only he looks european


While undoubtedly they can produce some light types, I bet at least some of these are French-Berber mixes (there was far more intermarriage in French Algeria than you'd find in any British colony). In fact, looking through the list of French people of Berber descent on the wikipedia link itself, many of them are only half or even a quarter Berber.


https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12814451_538956046271097_2826720688306381459_n.jpg ?oh=9c8843a4b456c9bb5aaf74b22409f684&oe=5838904F

this pictures shows what i mean. i have to say that it is funny how this little girl is being praised only for looking european lol


maybe you dont know the difference between loving blonde kids like any other kids and treating them as if they were gods lol

Because it's something not that usual among those peoples (altough not rare either), it's normal that they consider it a blessing, that girl will be highly valued and will have her life easier. Just like people also value beauty or physical strenght, those are positive traits that will make potentially the life of their childern easier, so it's normal to be somehow celebrated.

[crazyladybutterfly]

Because it's something not that usual among those peoples (altough not rare either), it's normal that they consider it a blessing, that girl will be highly valued and will have her life easier. Just like people also value beauty or physical strenght, those are positive traits that will make potentially the life of their childern easier, so it's normal to be somehow celebrated.

it's normal to be celebrated by her relatives not by the entire community. if it wasnt rare she wouldnt have been praised like some sort of aztec god

and it's pretty ridiculous that beauty is valued so much. anyway i highly doubt being blonde and blue eyed in any mena country is a blessing if you're a female, and you can guess why

[Sebastianus Rex]

it's normal to be celebrated by her relatives not by the entire community. if it wasnt rare she wouldnt have been praised like some sort of aztec god

and it's pretty ridiculous that beauty is valued so much. anyway i highly doubt being blonde and blue eyed in any mena country is a blessing if you're a female, and you can guess why

Of course it's a blessing, all the rich and influential families of the community will want ot marry their sons to such girls.

[MsSPF]

My opinion as an Algerian :

Kabyle people are cherrypicked in general, especially in the internet. So these pictures are cherypicked although this type of individual exists (not blaming the OP, he probably found those pics in the web) because light individuals are indeed not unusual among kabyles but not only, its frequent all along the coast in Algeria.
This is how average Algerians (incl. Kabyles) really looks like :


Algerians from different parts of the coasts
http://i.imgur.com/s7qAWFH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vmGT7G0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LSynlHF.jpg
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10409295_10152525775764107_2101477744861277645_n.j pg?oh=eb459e7a96dba427b507a8c6188e2c9d&oe=587B7B40
http://i.imgur.com/oPWj6Yx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fd8Z4e4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LyNwNM5.jpg


You're right when you say that French ancestry is non-existent in Algeria and only happenned rarely in big cities like Algiers and Oran and definitely not in other regions like in Kabylie or countryside in general. Native Algerians and pied-noirs were living separatly.

But this part is not entirely true :


Also the European admixture among North Africans is significantly higher than in other MENA peoples, the question is that they absorved high quantities of SSA during the last 1000 years because of the Arab slave trade and continuous migrations, yet the people who have remained more isolated and unmixed show a relatively high degree of Europoid phenotypes and light features.

Yes the European admix is indeed higher than in other MENA people but SSA always existed in Maghreb, even before the slave trade. Also the black slave trade was important only in Morocco, not really in Algeria and Tunisia so this argument is partially valid maybe for Morocco only where you find in most big cities from the north to the south, small black communities that intermixing/intermixed a bit with the local population recently but this proportion is highly exegerated and only concerned a minority, big cities and its areas and it could never changed the DNA of an entire population.
Many specialists traced the origins of Berbers from East Africa and thats where mainly the SSA of Maghrebis comes from, so it's ancient.
This summer, I discovered Ethiopian music and found it very similar to chleuh music from the Sousse (southern Morocco), region known to have stronger cultural links with "black Africa" than northern regions. My chleuh Moroccan friend was also very surprised how similar it was to traditionnal chleuh music.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Yes the European admix is indeed higher than in other MENA people but SSA always existed in Maghreb, even before the slave trade. Also the black slave trade was important only in Morocco, not really in Algeria and Tunisia so this argument is partially valid maybe for Morocco only where you find in most big cities from the north to the south, small black communities that intermixing/intermixed a bit with the local population recently but this proportion is highly exegerated and only concerned a minority, big cities and its areas and it could never changed the DNA of an entire population.
Many specialists traced the origins of Berbers from East Africa and thats where mainly the SSA of Maghrebis comes from, so it's ancient.
This summer, I discovered Ethiopian music and found it very similar to chleuh music from the Sousse (southern Morocco), region known to have stronger cultural links with "black Africa" than northern regions. My chleuh Moroccan friend was also very surprised how similar it was to traditionnal chleuh music.

Not contradicting what you wrote, the Arab invasion and slave trade + ongoing sub-saharan migration surely had an impact on all the north african populations, surely SSA always existed but at much lower levels, i doubt very much the lighest algerians/kabyles score any significant SSA and besides the population in general doesn't look like ethiopians or northeast Africans at all.

[Bell Beaker]

Well the feeling that I have with Kabyles is that even if their phenotype can pass in Iberia sometimes, most of them even the ones who can even be lighter than some Peninsulares have some MENA vibe, I dunno, especially in the eyes or in the mouth.

[crazyladybutterfly]

Of course it's a blessing, all the rich and influential families of the community will want ot marry their sons to such girls.

well i hope they re a bit more evolved than that

[MsSPF]

Not contradicting what you wrote, the Arab invasion and slave trade + ongoing sub-saharan migration surely had an impact on all the north african populations, surely SSA always existed but at much lower levels, i doubt very much the lighest algerians/kabyles score any significant SSA and besides the population in general doesn't look like ethiopians or northeast Africans at all.

This is where you are wrong, even the lightest Algerians scores significant SSA. The average coastal Algerian will score around 10/15% SSA, at best maybe 8/9%, not less. Berber groups from isolated places like Kabylie, Aures, Rif etc and even more in the Moroccan moutains Atlas (basically the purest Berbers in the world) can score on 23andme the highest amount of North African and North African on 23andme includes SSA.
Genetics are like a lottery and genetically we can say that Berbers/NorthWest Africans are basically Iberians/South Europeans with SSA/Middle Eastern admix. I already saw this in Algeria/Morocco/Tunisia with siblings, some can came out very European looking and others look typical Maghrebis and in extreme case, even slightly SSA admixed. However, most coastal Algerians do not show SSA admixture physically or slightly.
Slave trade had no impact on the SSA admix in North Africa, it concerned only a minority, especially in Morocco, in big cities.
And of course, NorthWest Africans dont look Ethiopians/NorthEast Africans at all because this origin is very ancient and has been highly diluated with European admix, now clearly predominant.
Anyway, this was my small contribution to your thread :)

[Sebastianus Rex]

double post

[Sebastianus Rex]

This is where you are wrong, even the lightest Algerians scores significant SSA. The average coastal Algerian will score around 10/15% SSA, at best maybe 8/9%, not less. Berber groups from isolated places like Kabylie, Aures, Rif etc and even more in the Moroccan moutains Atlas (basically the purest Berbers in the world) can score on 23andme the highest amount of North African and North African on 23andme includes SSA.
Genetics are like a lottery and genetically we can say that Berbers/NorthWest Africans are basically Iberians/South Europeans with SSA/Middle Eastern admix. I already saw this in Algeria/Morocco/Tunisia with siblings, some can came out very European looking and others look typical Maghrebis and in extreme case, even slightly SSA admixed. However, most coastal Algerians do not show SSA admixture physically or slightly.
Slave trade had no impact on the SSA admix in North Africa, it concerned only a minority, especially in Morocco, in big cities.
And of course, NorthWest Africans dont look Ethiopians/NorthEast Africans at all because this origin is very ancient and has been highly diluated with European admix, now clearly predominant.
Anyway, this was my small contribution to your thread :)

I appreciate your contribution but an estimated 18 million persons were trafficked during the Arab slave trade, i believe you deeply underestimate the impact of it on the north african populations. North African component is also quite different from SSA and probably new components that will help to understand better the racial makeup of these (and other) populations will be probably identified and isolated in the years to follow. We needDNA tests of ancestral north-africans to clear this issue.

On the other hand it might be possible that the higher ocurrence of light/europoid phenotypes in Berbers regarding other MENA populations might be attributed almost exclusively to the fact of they having higher percentage of north-sea + atlantic components combined, not to mention higher west-med.

[Petalpusher]

As i said in another thread, they tend to look different, most of the time they still have the same N.African vibe but some can look surprisingly European in minority, more often than regular Algerians.

I agree with Msspf overall, and i don't think any Kabyle score no SSA, they all have at least 10%, maybe a few just under it and this already half of the average. To really simplify, WHG is the opposite of SSA, as it is genetically the two most unrelated things on earth, you can see it like that as, WHG increases, SSA influence is lowering one way or another. Kabyles clearly have more WHG and/or proto WHG than any MENA. There's even a chance some places in N.Africa might have been one of their craddle in very ancient times (we might see about that soon)

[MsSPF]

I appreciate your contribution but an estimated 18 million persons were trafficked during the Arab slave trade, i believe you deeply underestimate the impact of it on the north african populations. North African component is also quite different from SSA and probably new components that will help to understand better the racial makeup of these (and other) populations will be probably identified and isolated in the years to follow.

On the other hand it might be possible that the higher ocurrence of light/europoid phenotypes in Berbers regarding other MENA populations might be attributed almost exclusively to the fact of they having higher percentage of north-sea + atlantic components combined, not to mention higher west-med.

You said it yourself, they were trafficking through North Africa, it doesn't mean they all stayed there and mixed with the local population. Many of them have been dispatched and sold from North Africa to the world.
Black slaves were the most frequent in Morocco, they were slaves/domestics for the Kingdom until recently (last slave market in Morocco was during the 20's). It existed also a small minority in Algeria and Tunisia but to a lesser extent and only in big cities. The last time "black slaves" have been deported to Algeria was during the colonisation by French, especially in Oran and Algiers to replace the local population like they did in the Antilles as blacks were considered to be more obedient. But it didnt worked and lasted a couple of years, so they were a very small minorities in this two cities and they were living in community, between each other, like it was the case in Morocco too and in Tunisia.
You need to understand that intermixing between blacks and white berbers were really inappropriate. It changes slowly now but it is still very taboo in Maghreb. Black/North African mix are not well seen.
Only black female slaves occasionally mixed with Berber rich men at the time but most were living between them and most intermixing are really really recent. This is why it only concerned a minority, especially in Morocco and had almost zero impact on the SSA in Maghreb.

For the last paragraph, I agree, it could be possible. I myself have a high westmed/north atlantic %.

[Sebastianus Rex]

As i said in another thread, they tend to look different, most of the time they still have the same N.African vibe but some can look surprisingly European in minority, more often than regular Algerians.

I agree with Msspf overall, and i don't think any Kabyle score no SSA, they all have at least 10%, maybe a few just under it and this already half of the average. To really simplify, WHG is the opposite of SSA, as it is genetically the two most unrelated things on earth, you can see it like that as, WHG increases, SSA influence is lowering one way or another. Kabyles clearly have more WHG and/or proto WHG than any MENA. There's even a chance some places in N.Africa might have been one of their craddle in very ancient times (we might see about that soon)

I doubt very much that some of the people on the pics score 10% SSA, that is virtually impossible not to show on phenotype. I believe some score half than that at most.

[crazyladybutterfly]

10% of ssa is less than the average octoroon ssa blood

[Petalpusher]

I doubt very much that some of the people on the pics score 10% SSA, that is virtually impossible not to show on phenotype. I believe some score half than that at most.

There s one German in your pics, try to spot her.

Serously it's possible a minority look like that if they are something equivalent to 1/4 meso Euro even with SSA, that's the level of some southern Euro groups who still most of the time look Europeans, while Kabyles don't.

[crazyladybutterfly]

There s one German in your pics, try to spot her.

Serously it's possible a minority look like that if they are something equivalent to 1/4 meso Euro even with SSA, that's the level of some southern Euro groups who still most of the time look Europeans, while Kabyles don't.

this one? https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14079652_615496301950404_8774365681252471501_n.jpg ?oh=f1b5c0a5322ae69301d8f36f80dce370&oe=587ADCDB

[Sebastianus Rex]

[QUOTE=Petalpusher;3922209]There s one German in your pics, try to spot her.

Of course there is, is the fatty Alpinid singer with green eyes, yet no one has mentioned her as outlying, phenotype classifications were basically the usual Berberid, saharid. xD I even gave the hint they were much more diversified than that. :cool: I put her on purpose to see how people would react and to see if they would notice. I was to put a Finnish singer who sings in Kabyle but thought it would be too obvious.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/b9/30/46/b9304689c512931f744ae24f0fe607af.jpg


Serously it's possible a minority look like that if they are something equivalent to 1/4 meso Euro even with SSA, that's the level of some southern Euro groups who still most of the time look Europeans, while Kabyles don't.

Depends on the level of SSA, honestly i don't see many of the girls there approaching levels of 10% SSA.

[Dick]

As i said in another thread, they tend to look different, most of the time they still have the same N.African vibe but some can look surprisingly European in minority, more often than regular Algerians.

I agree with Msspf overall, and i don't think any Kabyle score no SSA, they all have at least 10%, maybe a few just under it and this already half of the average. To really simplify, WHG is the opposite of SSA, as it is genetically the two most unrelated things on earth, you can see it like that as, WHG increases, SSA influence is lowering one way or another. Kabyles clearly have more WHG and/or proto WHG than any MENA. There's even a chance some places in N.Africa might have been one of their craddle in very ancient times (we might see about that soon)zidane looks different from his brother, maybe even has less whg who knows. I think nothing is set in stone when it comes to adna and your phenotype.

[Petalpusher]

Of course there is, is the fatty Alpinid singer with green eyes, yet no one has mentioned her as outlying, phenotype classifications were basically the usual Berberid, saharid. xD I even gave the hint they were much more diversified than that. :cool: I put her on purpose to see how people would react and to see if they would notice. I was to put a Finnish singer who sings in Kabyle but thought it would be too obvious.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/600x315/b9/30/46/b9304689c512931f744ae24f0fe607af.jpg



Depends on the level of SSA, honestly i don't see many of the girls there approaching levels of 10% SSA.

It made me google this particular image because i knew something wasn't right and i was thinking fuck she looked German (it's written all over her!). You should ve put this Finnish to get the "Berberid + slight Atlanto-med"



zidane looks different from his brother, maybe even has less whg who knows. I think nothing is set in stone when it comes to adna and your phenotype.


There s clearly some reshuffling when it comes to what will show up in phenotype as siblings can often look different (hopefully, or we would be all clones), even though their genetic heritage is the same. The proportions just remain the same in a population of millions.

[Sebastianus Rex]

[QUOTE=Sebastianus Rex;3922233]

It made me google this particular image because i knew something wasn't right and i was thinking fuck she looked German (it's written all over her!). You should ve put the Finnish to get the "Berberid + slight Atlanto-med"

LOL. Probably.

Yet this little girl might end up looking rather similar to the German woman:
https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12806166_538954702937898_5343635148066444522_n.jpg ?oh=db4f3b6a7c859f6ec5ad9c4fa1cb0276&oe=586C49F0

[crazyladybutterfly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAThy32r-f4

so i guessed right , she looked too fucking german to me too

although this girl https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10455575_538955806271121_8013153843052604475_n.jpg ?oh=e92a8c555a9a08c820939becbcfa6c66&oe=58710F3F probably is full blooded kabylie or at least partially one , but she passes easily in germany

[Sebastianus Rex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAThy32r-f4

so i guessed right , she looked too fucking german to me too

although this girl https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10455575_538955806271121_8013153843052604475_n.jpg ?oh=e92a8c555a9a08c820939becbcfa6c66&oe=58710F3F probably is full blooded kabylie or at least partially one , but she passes easily in germany

Faelid strains, the light Berberid types were considered related to the Faelid type by some anthropologists, she looks a legit light Kabyle can see a reasonable amount with similar traits.

[crazyladybutterfly]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ruWIidCInI/maxresdefault.jpg

http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/400x260-ct/1/30/68/55/20160111/ob_e0a1bf_miss-kabylie-2016-tartag-tinhinane.jpg

https://www.kabyle.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/miss_kabylie_2013.jpg?itok=PI8ikPSb

http://i.skyrock.net/0804/35610804/pics/2782595202_small_1.jpg

http://www.miss-kabylie.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/miss-alg%C3%A9rie-2013.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0xamsCPQU1r99z5to1_500.jpg

https://www.kabyle.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/misskabylie2016_0.jpg?itok=YDooCYde


it's only the ones who look european , and often central european who get elected as miss kabylie.
THIS JUST PROVES THAT SOME ETHNICITIES ARE UGLY AND OTHERS ARE ATTRACTIVE, on average, even the less attractive ones favor the european looking ones lol


to the point that one cant really (almost) say that someone looks mena and is good looking, because it's rare that someone who is full mena looking happens to look average let alone above

[Kamal900]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ruWIidCInI/maxresdefault.jpg

http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/400x260-ct/1/30/68/55/20160111/ob_e0a1bf_miss-kabylie-2016-tartag-tinhinane.jpg

https://www.kabyle.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/miss_kabylie_2013.jpg?itok=PI8ikPSb

http://i.skyrock.net/0804/35610804/pics/2782595202_small_1.jpg

http://www.miss-kabylie.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/miss-alg%C3%A9rie-2013.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0xamsCPQU1r99z5to1_500.jpg

https://www.kabyle.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/misskabylie2016_0.jpg?itok=YDooCYde


it's only the ones who look european , and often central european who get elected as miss kabylie.
THIS JUST PROVES THAT SOME ETHNICITIES ARE UGLY AND OTHERS ARE ATTRACTIVE, on average, even the less attractive ones favor the european looking ones lol


to the point that one cant really (almost) say that someone looks mena and is good looking, because it's rare that someone who is full mena looking happens to look average let alone above

:picard2: Are you assuming that MENA people are ugly on average? And that is coming from someone who has inferiority complex of her nose shape.. These women in those pictures look very MENA, and they are beautiful in my opinion.

[Kamal900]

zidane looks different from his brother, maybe even has less whg who knows. I think nothing is set in stone when it comes to adna and your phenotype.

Zidane looks very Berberid when he was younger, and he doesn't look very European..

[Tooting Carmen]

@Gilgamesh: Only the first girl I would guess as 'MENA'. The others not really.

[crazyladybutterfly]

:picard2: Are you assuming that MENA people are ugly on average? And that is coming from someone who has inferiority complex of her nose shape.. These women in those pictures look very MENA, and they are beautiful in my opinion.

the first one and the last look mixed . it isnt my fault if they prefer more european influenced features. compare these girls to the ones below the blonde little girl.

[Sebastianus Rex]

it's only the ones who look european , and often central european who get elected as miss kabylie.
THIS JUST PROVES THAT SOME ETHNICITIES ARE UGLY AND OTHERS ARE ATTRACTIVE, on average, even the less attractive ones favor the european looking ones lol


to the point that one cant really (almost) say that someone looks mena and is good looking, because it's rare that someone who is full mena looking happens to look average let alone above

I disagree, one thing is to look europid another is to be attractive, there's of course many MENA and mixed people who are beautiful (altough beauty is subjective).

[crazyladybutterfly]

I disagree, one is to look europid another is to be attractive, there's of course many MENA people who are beautiful (altough beauty is subjective).

while i might have overexaggerated what you're saying wouldnt explain why all the people i know who are considered as ugly do show some mena influence on their faces.

[MsSPF]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ruWIidCInI/maxresdefault.jpg

http://img.over-blog-kiwi.com/400x260-ct/1/30/68/55/20160111/ob_e0a1bf_miss-kabylie-2016-tartag-tinhinane.jpg

https://www.kabyle.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/miss_kabylie_2013.jpg?itok=PI8ikPSb

http://i.skyrock.net/0804/35610804/pics/2782595202_small_1.jpg

http://www.miss-kabylie.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/miss-alg%C3%A9rie-2013.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0xamsCPQU1r99z5to1_500.jpg

https://www.kabyle.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/misskabylie2016_0.jpg?itok=YDooCYde


it's only the ones who look european , and often central european who get elected as miss kabylie.
THIS JUST PROVES THAT SOME ETHNICITIES ARE UGLY AND OTHERS ARE ATTRACTIVE, on average, even the less attractive ones favor the european looking ones lol


to the point that one cant really say that someone looks mena and is good looking.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-ruWIidCInI/maxresdefault.jpg
https://www.kabyle.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/miss_kabylie_2013.jpg?itok=PI8ikPSb
http://i.skyrock.net/0804/35610804/pics/2782595202_small_1.jpg

These ones look Algerians, they are average there lol others are less frequent but not unusual.
I admit North Africans tend to "fetichize" light hair and eyes because its something less frequent but it was the same before in Europe too.
Pale skin was associated with being wealth and rich when tanned was considered being poor because it means you were working in the fields under the sun.
Recently, things are changing because the society evolved and is developing (without mentionning globalization too). More and more Algerians now like to tan especially during the summer. But light eyes/hair are always a big thing. But isn't it the same in Europe too ? How many times I heard "brunette with light eyes is the best combo" from European people.
You are completely wrong about our beauty standards lol also last Miss Algeria looked typical NA

http://www.mode-et-femme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Miss-Algerie.jpg

This Miss Kabylie too

http://i57.tinypic.com/oqhow6.jpg

These women are the epitome of North African beauty standards

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/f1/8d/46/f18d46bb7f54c27df1f508cc47ff3416.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/2wnuvie.jpg
http://orig14.deviantart.net/318d/f/2011/294/5/1/dorra_zarrouk_by_zizoelstar-d4dhhur.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/raunn9.jpg

[Sebastianus Rex]

while i might have overexaggerated what you're saying wouldnt explain why all the people i know who are considered as ugly do show some mena influence on their faces.

Depends on the traits, for example big noses rarely contribute to beautify the person.

[crazyladybutterfly]

Depends on the traits, for example big noses rarely contribute to beautify the person.

but many menas have big noses much less than europeans do

[Sebastianus Rex]

but many menas have big noses

That's true.

[Bell Beaker]

Depends on the traits, for example big noses rarely contribute to beautify the person.

Nor abnormal big lips.

The most important factors to a beauty of a face is the mouth region, the eyes, and the size of the nose in relation to the size of the head.

Of course people who tend to have "soft" features are more prone to be considered attractive.

[Tooting Carmen]

Funny how lots of countries take beauty contests seriously. In the UK they hardly get any coverage at all.

[Bell Beaker]

Funny how lots of countries take beauty contests seriously. In the UK they hardly get any coverage at all.

Nor in Portugal, I don't even know who is Miss Portugal 2015 or 2016.

Singing contests or talent (pseudo talent) contests (like X Factor) are much more popular.

They are usually the most annoying though.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Funny how lots of countries take beauty contests seriously. In the UK they hardly get any coverage at all.

Yet in the USA the beauty contests are still big, they have beauty queen contests for everything...at least it used to be like that, nowadays i don't know if that has changed much.

[Tooting Carmen]

She looks like Rocio Munoz Morales' long lost sister.xD
http://www.mode-et-femme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Miss-Algerie.jpg

[crazyladybutterfly]

She looks like Rocio Munoz Morales' long lost sister.xD
http://www.mode-et-femme.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Miss-Algerie.jpg

but whiter version xD (I am talking about rocio ubertanned skin)

[MsSPF]

Funny how lots of countries take beauty contests seriously. In the UK they hardly get any coverage at all.

Nobody cares about beauty contests in Algeria too. During 10 years, there were no beauty contests in Algeria, it suddenly appears again in 2013 during 2 years (but it was not even broadcoast in national tv because nobody cares) and then it disappeared again. Last Miss Algeria elected is from 2014 ;)


but many menas have big noses much less than europeans do

Why most mena people I know don't have big noses ? lol I'm just back from Italy, I didn't saw many MENA people there except tourists, if your knowledge of MENA people is from TA, this is really sad for you because most things said about them here is bullshit... and I know European with big noses too. What you're saying is non sense.
I admit big noses are a bit more frequent in West Asia/Middle East/Caucasus (not in North Africa through) but nothing consequent, really. What even big noses mean ? A nose can be big for me and not for you, another nose can be big for you and not for me. Your obsession about relating big noses with MENA people is weird and you overestimate and speculate a lot about how ugly and big nosed MENA people are. Are you insecure because many people here said that you look MENA ? Seriously, get out of TA a bit, this is not real life here.
Btw, I know people with "big noses" and they can be sometimes attractive.

[crazyladybutterfly]

. Are you insecure because many people here said that you look MENA ? Seriously, get out of TA a bit, this is not real life here.
Btw, I know people with "big noses" and they can be sometimes attractive.

i am only being told that i look mena because i am ugly, the decent exotic looking ones arent called mena looking , at least here. and they're really generally seen as less good looking than european, from morocco to afghanistan.,

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabyle_people

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12805944_538955542937814_9215979556625929547_n.jpg ?oh=682e040be8289744d44be2429396b4e2&oe=5878CC23

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14045874_615480128618688_7796521485454070176_n.jpg ?oh=cf6e8370be1d17efe8652ac38f43f487&oe=58736CA1

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14095696_615480391951995_1035924961857608629_n.jpg ?oh=423a2c28cb3f90378dcce2d9529732a2&oe=5883D7A7

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14079652_615496301950404_8774365681252471501_n.jpg ?oh=f1b5c0a5322ae69301d8f36f80dce370&oe=587ADCDB

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14089320_615496545283713_7864695024098412897_n.jpg ?oh=aafed72a42e3f53c8f9a52bfeca2c882&oe=58858F42

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14040040_615497465283621_6165944946525290732_n.jpg ?oh=9b733d5cfc6b3d1a8ae6cc700914479f&oe=587F61E9

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14054234_615545105278857_6559761769261865777_n.jpg ?oh=3a200d12014eabf91b28afbfe9205ba4&oe=586F88E2

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14089232_615545431945491_5108221537166085269_n.jpg ?oh=9c2d80e91a473b7a165845c1f6762ffd&oe=587EE844

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14089025_615545671945467_4984925095845019713_n.jpg ?oh=f883a7422b8cdf582ffe066cab916a44&oe=587CC909

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14040138_615545758612125_7882466599130198812_n.jpg ?oh=83fd6f0bfae3015c70470ca80ad99dd8&oe=587F06C8

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12805837_538953439604691_630407186271196046_n.jpg? oh=da7045d6b2c341ba2dcb747d4c972fb5&oe=587165E7

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12803119_538953819604653_7304955874848663722_n.jpg ?oh=db9defd265ff0ddbc30a5ecd6262216d&oe=5877E67D

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12799069_538954592937909_8338046899126628223_n.jpg ?oh=9191296ab93e50298754b562da02fd7f&oe=586EA4BB

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12806166_538954702937898_5343635148066444522_n.jpg ?oh=db4f3b6a7c859f6ec5ad9c4fa1cb0276&oe=586C49F0

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12794391_538955592937809_635543584987715594_n.jpg? oh=e9a838a4fca3d025b9f11a05bf1fde35&oe=583E81C1

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12801364_538955726271129_2991907281185959881_n.jpg ?oh=fc4428cb47084d3ae1d1e6d05b51a980&oe=584044FF

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10455575_538955806271121_8013153843052604475_n.jpg ?oh=e92a8c555a9a08c820939becbcfa6c66&oe=58710F3F

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12814451_538956046271097_2826720688306381459_n.jpg ?oh=9c8843a4b456c9bb5aaf74b22409f684&oe=5838904F

More Euro looking than many Euros. An attractive bunch.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Yes the European admix is indeed higher than in other MENA people but SSA always existed in Maghreb, even before the slave trade.
Yeah um, we don't know that. It's reasonable to assume most of it came during recent slavery. We know the SSA in Levantines isn't ancient now based on neolithic Levantines.

There's some evidence of SSA-like skulls in ancient North Africa but I really don't know too much about that(or the dates), but I do know Afalou-Mechtoids were supposedly similar to European CMs? Also, they had domesticated dogs while no SSA population ever had domesticated dogs. Any specialists tracing the "origins of the Berbers to East Africa" is like referring to the origins of y-dna E1 and that is well after the Caucasoid/SSA split(Natufians were all E1 and only had 5% SSA 12k years ago.

On an unrelated note, here's some cave paintings from neolithic/mesolithic Algeria(waaay southern Algeria, actually, where black Tuaregs are today) and Libya. There's evidence of blondism and also long, flowing straight hair, which does not go against your argument(them having some SSA already), just wanted to show these(and it definitely refutes any pure SSA population being native to the area)

http://cdn1.uk.mentalfloss.com/sites/mentalflossuk/files/styles/insert_main_wide_image_750/public/tara-hairstyles-acacus-libya-pair_704x464.jpg?itok=uB5AkbaJ

http://static8.depositphotos.com/1003352/891/i/950/depositphotos_8914473-Rock-paintings-of-tassili-najjer.jpg

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/8db00bd20bf8472f8c693678d90180ae/example-of-rock-art-found-in-the-southern-sahara-libya-presently-in-afkamx.jpg
(tbh those look more like turbans more than hair)

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/fb/68/2b/fb682b34e92613a0351e215c9ac61a5a.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2d/fe/f8/2dfef8eb670e6d35d5757d9d43348a10.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NuPZWc6zC1U/UuviXUSqtcI/AAAAAAAADK4/GCmvIa_VL10/s1600/2.+Ritual+dance.jpg

https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/uan-red.jpg?w=500

http://realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/North_Africa/Lhote_2.jpg
(if you're wondering why this one and the previous one is so much more accurate looking, it's from a later era, most of the previous ones are from 6k BC)

http://smarthistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/parkmap-870x421.jpg

This one's from 3000 BC, those are obviously turbans but it shows they clearly weren't SSA:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c0/05/90/c005901d0b507b2d8a987dea58d5a750.jpg

Later depictions:

https://i0.wp.com/www.livius.org/a/libya/villa_nile/villa_nile_mus_tripoli_b1.JPG
(Libyan Romans, although they could've just been Italian settlers)

Nasrid Emirate of Granada soldiers depicted by Castillians(although they quite possibly could've white washed them so it didn't seem like they were conquered by Arabs):

https://ballandalus.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/550362_560387793981322_1866526882_n.jpg?w=401

https://ballandalus.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/04-15-documentacic3b3n-cantigas-de-santa-marc3ada-185d-ejc3a9rcito-moro-menc3a9ndez-pidal.jpg?w=960

https://ballandalus.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/img_7389.jpg?w=650

https://ballandalus.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/8muc.jpg?w=960

https://ballandalus.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/21109046854203_119.gif?w=960

https://ballandalus.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/cantigas_de_santa_maria-187b-4.jpg?w=960

and of course the famous depiction of Libyans(the one on the left) by ancient Egyptians(should be pointed out that tattoos are almost exclusively a European thing among ancient cultures and the Libyan is the only one with them):

http://www.studenthandouts.com/1-Student-Handouts/Egyptian-Depictions-of-Ethnic-Groups.jpg

[Bell Beaker]

It's a bit logical that coastal North Africans had contacts with Europe specially with Iberia and Italy (perhaps Egypt had with Greece) in the ancient times.

Not surprising that isolated Berbers look lighter.

The Saharan Desert was a genetic barrier until Mohamedians started to travel with camels through the desert and started to enslave local Black persons.

[Enflamme]

Girls berberid pure can pass in Europe without SSA, other more "Sarahid", no. But, pure Berber are not "Arabic" looking. They're look more Indo-European, not Arabic or Saharid.

[sweetalmonds]

https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14079652_615496301950404_8774365681252471501_n.jpg ?oh=f1b5c0a5322ae69301d8f36f80dce370&oe=587ADCDB
https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12801364_538955726271129_2991907281185959881_n.jpg ?oh=fc4428cb47084d3ae1d1e6d05b51a980&oe=584044FF


These Algerian women somewhat resembles these Dominicans.

https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7637/27381309052_fba57cd693_b.jpg




https://scontent.flis3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12814451_538956046271097_2826720688306381459_n.jpg ?oh=9c8843a4b456c9bb5aaf74b22409f684&oe=5838904F

This young girl reminded me this girl I know, especially when her hair was blonde, now it is just brown:

[IMG]http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62046&d=1474153677




I wonder if light Kabyles can fit nowadays in the Canaries, or if that phenotype became rare because of emigration to the New World and miscegenation with the Spaniards, Portuguese and Frenchmen that settled in the Canary Islands.

[Raikaswinþs]

too many phenotypes ... the footballers look classic North African mutts of Berber + other Afroasiatic peoples.

the earlier threas show more or less unmixed mediterraneans of the north african type,

[Maguzanci]

As i said in another thread, they tend to look different, most of the time they still have the same N.African vibe but some can look surprisingly European in minority, more often than regular Algerians.

I agree with Msspf overall, and i don't think any Kabyle score no SSA, they all have at least 10%, maybe a few just under it and this already half of the average. To really simplify, WHG is the opposite of SSA, as it is genetically the two most unrelated things on earth, you can see it like that as, WHG increases, SSA influence is lowering one way or another. Kabyles clearly have more WHG and/or proto WHG than any MENA. There's even a chance some places in N.Africa might have been one of their craddle in very ancient times (we might see about that soon)

What do you think makes Kabyles have more European looking people even they are in minority than regular Algerians? Is it because Kabyles have more WHG-derived ancestry than other Algerians?

Also how much WHG/proto WHG would Kabyles really have? Do Maghrebis have one of most European/European-related admix in the MENA?

[XenophobicPrussian]

North Africans have about 14% WHG admixture. That beats out even Turks and Pashtuns. Other MENA groups can surpass that number if: 1) North Caucasus groups are considered MENA even though they're geographically in Europe 2) you use high K calcs for said North Caucasus people which split out the WHG components from Anatolian farmers and ANE, which they both had.

In comparison, a Syrian will have 3% or 8%(again, depending which method you use, North Africans show up as around 14% by both methods because they have negligible ANE admixture), a Yemeni will have less than 1%.

[Faklon]

North Africans have about 14% WHG admixture. That beats out even Turks and Pashtuns. Other MENA groups can surpass that number if: 1) North Caucasus groups are considered MENA even though they're geographically in Europe 2) you use high K calcs for said North Caucasus people which split out the WHG components from Anatolian farmers and ANE, which they both had.

In comparison, a Syrian will have 3% or 8%(again, depending which method you use, North Africans show up as around 14% by both methods because they have negligible ANE admixture), a Yemeni will have less than 1%.

And we have enough evidence to conclude that "WHG specimen" were darker pigmented, shorter and graciler than the "more Eastern-shifted SHG" ones, a component that both Caucasians and Levantines will score more and North Africans lesser compared to WHG.

[Ülev]

Canarids http://humanphenotypes.net/Canarid.html