Your opinion of the Russian Empire?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Do you believe that the empire was benevolent, built civilization, spread technology, etc or was the empire evil, destroyer of civilizations, made people backwards?

http://www.taiwandna.com/RussianEmpireMap.png

[Wulfhere]

Do you believe that the empire was benevolent, built civilization, spread technology, etc or was the empire evil, destroyer of civilizations, made people backwards?

http://www.taiwandna.com/RussianEmpireMap.png

Neither really, but it was certainly quite backward.

[Osweo]

The Tsarist Empire had other objectives than those that most of us would judge it by. Orthodoxy was its mission, and it stuck to this many times when a more pragmatic policy would have prompted more self-interested responses.

It should perhaps be stressed, that of all the 200+ nations within it, it was consistently the Russian peasants themselves that were the least privileged, and this was its ultimate downfall. Quite sad, and a result of the 'deviation' initiated by the Westernising Pyotr I that took Russia away from its distinct cultural pathway and imposed foreign forms upon the Empire that it often chafed in. This tended to interfere with the sense of Mission I allude to above, which the common people still identified with, but which the elites were distracted from. When the natural drives were properly harnessed, the Imperiya was a great engine of expansion...

Pretty damn glorious as Empires go, of course! :)

[Osweo]

Special mention should be made of the Russians' liberation of Caucasian and Balkan Christians from the Turkish yoke. The Ottoman Empire was far worse a place to live in, after all. And the Russians were relatively lenient with non-Christian subjects, to the extent that most of their Muslim subjects became very moderate in their religion, lasting until the present day in Central Asia and the Volga.

The Tsars withstood the machinations of international finance too, though their clumsiness in this cause, and their expressing of it in simplistic anti-semitism were ultimately unsuccessful. :(

[Pallantides]

Orcs are always evil:D

[poiuytrewq0987]

Orcs are always evil:D

All a matter of perception. You see us as orcs, we see you as orcs too.

[Guapo]

They should have never ever sold Aljaska.

[Pallantides]

All a matter of perception. You see us as orcs, we see you as orcs too.

I'm no Orc ... people say I look like an elf. :D:D:D
But what have Norwegians ever done to be seen as Orcs?(maybe apart for some harmless fun/raiding in the viking age, the prosecution of Saami and Finnish miniorites and sterilizing tatere in the early modern period... we have not been very Orcish compared to the Russians)



I was joking anyway... I was going to vote 'both' but accedantaly selected 'evil'.;)

[Guapo]

You make orc mad!:mad:

[Devils Advocate]

They were evil. They were all Hors.

[Joe McCarthy]

I wouldn't say the Russian Empire was good or bad. I'd say it was unimpressive. It's actually an object lesson on how not to organize a society, and serves as a historical refutation of those more fringe nationalists who seem to long for the primitive, the simple, and the pre or anti-capitalist.

The outstanding characteristic of Russia has not been its accomplishments, but that it hasn't accomplished far more. Given its massive size, resources, and potential, it's frankly ludicrous to look back and consider that it was seriously threatened by Sweden. This testament to Russian backwardness is further illustrated by its loss to Japan. Its inability to build an adequate transportation system contributed greatly to its defeat.

Even from a strictly preservationist standpoint it was nothing impressive. In building the empire it incorporated countless non-whites and non-Europeans and Russia deals with that fact to this day.

The moral of the story: technological advancement flowing from industrialism and capitalism is needed for development, and development is needed to acquire power. Power is needed to even defend the ethnos at all.

[Loki]

I wouldn't say the Russian Empire was good or bad. I'd say it was unimpressive.

Unimpressive? The Russian Empire was the third largest empire of all time (only the British and Mongolian empires were larger). In addition, the Russians actually colonised large stretches of land, and that is why Russians are the European ethnic group with by far the most land. In the future, that will be very beneficial for them.

[Austin]

It was good until it adopted a foreign, flawed ideology called communism which ruined it so horribly that it will probably stay in a literal war with alcohol for the next fifty years....

[Albion]

Still exists.

Good:


Good in that it expanded European territories and settlements into Siberia.


Bad:


It trod on our toes (British Empire)
Became the USSR
Subjugated some European peoples within the empire such as Finnics and Balts. We did too though and that's also a bad point about ours.
Still exists.


On the whole good though through its vast achievements and most notably the whole Siberia thing mentioned above.
Osweo please don't find faults :p:thumb001:

[Joe McCarthy]

The Tsars withstood the machinations of international finance too, though their clumsiness in this cause, and their expressing of it in simplistic anti-semitism were ultimately unsuccessful. :(

If anything Russia may be the one case where lampooning 'Jewish capitalists' has some merit. Jacob Schiff's bankrolling of Japan had much to do with the Russian defeat.

[Joe McCarthy]

Originally Posted by Loki
Unimpressive? The Russian Empire was the third largest empire of all time (only the British and Mongolian empires were larger).

Yes, and what did they do with it? To this day it remains largely undeveloped. It's analogous to New Spain in many ways. What became the American Southwest was never developed by Spain or Mexico.


In the future, that will be very beneficial for them.

Your comment here itself is revealing. Why hasn't it already proven beneficial? Simply acquiring large swaths of land isn't very impressive unless it is put to good use. Imagine what Americans or British would have done with that land. I'm not too bullish on even the future though. Increasingly, Siberia is becoming a Chinese colony.

[Loki]

Yes, and what did they do with it? To this day it remains largely undeveloped.


Actually, the fact that it is undeveloped (and underexploited) is what gives it even more potential for the future. Vast natural resources. And why let it all go to waste? Humans are an infectious disease on this planet, well done on the Russians to allow those vast stretches of taiga to be preserved.

[Joe McCarthy]

Actually, the fact that it is undeveloped (and underexploited) is what gives it even more potential for the future. Vast natural resources. And why let it all go to waste? Humans are an infectious disease on this planet, well done on the Russians to allow those vast stretches of taiga to be preserved.

This argument would be more convincing if the Russian Empire had been motivated by environmental concerns in not developing its land. But it wasn't a matter of didn't, but couldn't.

I think you'll also find that the developed West has much higher environmental standards than Russia; not to mention cleaner cities.