What other Germanic tribes apart from Anglo Saxons came to England?

[Norb]

I have never understood when people automatically assume that British people = Anglo Saxon. You can not be Anglo Saxon without having any blood or having the facial type from this tribe.
Anglo Saxon to me means genetically and in classification terms 'Anglo Saxon type'.

What other traces of Germanic tribes are there in England? Is Anglo Saxon the only one?

[Böri]

Jutes during 4th century. Some Vikings after the start of the Viking invasion around late 9th century. And some Norman elites from France after Hastings battle during the 11th century.

[aherne]

Jutland was almost vacated by the immigration, so all Jutes, all Angles and lots of Saxons left for Britain.

[Peterski]

Jutland was almost vacated by the immigration, so all Jutes, all Angles and lots of Saxons left for Britain.

Not all, modern Danes have some ancestry from those groups (39-49% depending on region of Denmark).

But modern Danish language originates from groups who came south from Sweden after Jutes emigrated.

[Mingle]

The Angles and Saxons were the largest tribes that migrated to Britain, but the Frisians and Jutes also came in significant numbers. Other minor Germanic tribes from Northwest Europe also came, among those are the Franks, Batavians, Chauci, Menapii, Rugii, and so on. There were also some Slavs that migrated from Pomerania and Poland to Britain (with the Vikings and the initial Germanic settlers). Cnut the Great (Danish king) had a Polish mother. The Rugini from Pomerania were a tribe that sent migrants to Britain, though I don't know if they were Germanic or Slavic.

[Septentrion]

I have never understood when people automatically assume that British people = Anglo Saxon. You can not be Anglo Saxon without having any blood or having the facial type from this tribe.
Anglo Saxon to me means genetically and in classification terms 'Anglo Saxon type'.

What other traces of Germanic tribes are there in England? Is Anglo Saxon the only one?

Don't be foolish the Anglo-Saxons were the principal body of Germanic tribes which invaded Great Britain. There was also a significant group of Frisians, individual from Frankish and Allemani tribes. Obviously you know the Danes and Norwegians also came.

[Mortimer]

Angles and Saxons and Normans. I heard someone related the English to Jute but I dont know really what Jute are or if they came to England. But I read that assocciation. Also Saxons are East Germans and someone just said East Germans and Scandinavians are Slavs.

[Mingle]

Angles and Saxons and Normans.

Although the Normans have a Germanic origin, they can't be counted as Germanic here since they didn't speak Germanic and weren't part of the initial Germanic migration that led to the birth of the English kingdoms.


I heard someone related the English to Jute but I dont know really what Jute are or if they came to England. But I read that assocciation.

Jutes were from the Jutland Peninsula and the third biggest tribe to migrate to England after the Angles and Saxons.


Also Saxons are East Germans

No they're not. Saxons are North Germans. The people of Upper Saxony have nothing to do with Saxons other than having their name. Upper "Saxons" are really just Thuringians who adopted the term Saxon as a regional identity after they were conquered by the House of Ascania (Anhalt), a Saxon dynasty. Saxons only live in the northern half of Germany and the northeastern Netherlands.

Technically, Northeast Germans (as well as Northwest Germans) are Saxons, but by "East German", I assumed that you were referring to Upper Saxons. So Northeast Germans are Saxons, but Upper Saxons are not.

Plattdeutsch/Niederdeutsch = Saxon language.

The region traditionally/currently inhabited by Saxons is called "Old Saxony" and corresponds to modern day North Germany and NE Netherlands.


someone just said East Germans and Scandinavians are Slavs.

East Germans, meaning everyone from the eastern half of Germany (inc. Bavarians), and Austrians are around half-Slavic or so. Scandinavians, definitely no.

[Mortimer]

Although the Normans have a Germanic origin, they can't be counted as Germanic here since they didn't speak Germanic and weren't part of the initial Germanic migration that led to the birth of the English kingdoms.



Jutes were from the Jutland Peninsula and the third biggest tribe to migrate to England after the Angles and Saxons.



No they're not. Saxons are North Germans. The people of Upper Saxony have nothing to do with Saxons other than having their name. Upper "Saxons" are really just Thuringians who adopted the term Saxon as a regional identity after they were conquered by the House of Ascania (Anhalt), a Saxon dynasty. Saxons only live in the northern half of Germany and the northeastern Netherlands.

Plattdeutsch/Niederdeutsch = Saxon language.

The region traditionally/currently inhabited by Saxons is called "Old Saxony" and corresponds to modern day North Germany and NE Netherlands.



East Germans, meaning everyone from the eastern half of Germany (inc. Bavarians), and Austrians are around half-Slavic or so. Scandinavians, definitely no.

There is Sachsen Anhalt too, there are few regions with name saxon in it. You said "House of Anhalt" sounds like Sachsen-Anhalt. Saxons are Northeast Germans. They are both North and East Germans. Frisians are Germans too. And I dont think everyone in east germany including austria and bavaria is half-slavic or all of them. And that western germans are zero slavic, because there is alot of genetic flow inbetween germans and the regions, i dont think most germans are exclusively from one single region. Im sure Germans mix with eatch other and if everyone in east germany would have been half-slavic initially then that means also western germans are part slavic since germans mix with germans easily. Then all Germans would be half-slavic. Sounds like some bullshit myth. Also Im not sure if there is a "slavic genetic component" exactly which is clearly distinct from germanic, so that it would be able to make those claim.

[Mingle]

There is Sachsen Anhalt too, there are few regions with name saxon in it.

It doesn't matter if the region has the name "Saxon" in it or not, the northern half of Germany is Saxon land. For example, Mecklenburg-Vorepommern is Saxon even though the region doesn't have Saxon in its name. In regards to Saxony-Anhalt, Halle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_(region)) is probably Thuringian (based on the dialect it traditionally speaks) whereas the rest of the state is Saxon.


You said "House of Anhalt" sounds like Sachsen-Anhalt.

The proper name of the dynasty was 'House of Ascania'. It was sometimes called the House of Anhalt because their seat of power was in Anhalt. Saxony-Anhalt gets its name from Anhalt's historical significance in that dynasty.


Saxons are Northeast Germans. They are both North and East Germans.

Agree. By "East German", I thought you were only referring to Upper Saxony.


And I dont think everyone in east germany including austria and bavaria is half-slavic or all of them. And that western germans are zero slavic, because there is alot of genetic flow inbetween germans and the regions, i dont think most germans are exclusively from one single region. Im sure Germans mix with eatch other and if everyone in east germany would have been half-slavic initially then that means also western germans are part slavic since germans mix with germans easily. Then all Germans would be half-slavic. Sounds like some bullshit myth. Also Im not sure if there is a "slavic genetic component" exactly which is clearly distinct from germanic, so that it would be able to make those claim.

East Germans get modeled as half-Scandinavian and half-Russian on GEDmatch.

West Germans also have Slavic blood, but less than East Germans.

Proto-Germanics and Proto-Slavs were mixes of similar genetic components, but differed in proportions of those components.

[Mortimer]

It doesn't matter if the region has the name "Saxon" in it or not, the northern half of Germany is Saxon land. For example, Mecklenburg-Vorepommern is Saxon even though the region doesn't have Saxon in its name. In regards to Saxony-Anhalt, Halle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halle_(region)) is probably Thuringian (based on the dialect it traditionally speaks) whereas the rest of the state is Saxon.



The proper name of the dynasty was 'House of Ascania'. It was sometimes called the House of Anhalt because their seat of power was in Anhalt. Saxony-Anhalt gets its name from Anhalt's historical significance in that dynasty.



Agree. By "East German", I thought you were only referring to Upper Saxony.



East Germans get modeled as half-Scandinavian and half-Russian on GEDmatch.

West Germans also have Slavic blood, but less than East Germans.

Of course it matters if there are regions in germany with that name. It indicates the origins. But I dont know what we are arguing about really, there is not much to disagree or agree. And if you are sure east germans are half russians you should create a thread about it and post the results from gedmatch. Really would like to see that, and where you post evidence that its like that. Otherwise I believe its some bullshit you picked up from some polack.

[Mingle]

Of course it matters if there are regions in germany with that name. It indicates the origins. But I dont know what we are arguing about really, there is not much to disagree or agree.

I meant that not having "Saxony" in the state's name doesn't mean the people living there aren't necessarily Saxon. The earliest recorded mention, and likely origin, of Saxons is in modern day Holstein (which is still Saxon today).


And if you are sure east germans are half russians you should create a thread about it and post the results from gedmatch. Really would like to see that, and where you post evidence that its like that. Otherwise I believe its some bullshit you picked up from some polack.

If you notice the GEDmatch results of some Serbs and Croats on TA, you'll notice they're pretty close to Austrians and East Germans. The user "TeutonicBoyars" is half-Danish and half-Russian and he gets East German as his top match. I can't find the thread he posted his results in at the moment.

[Anglojew]

Besides Jutes etc & Normans obviously Vikings eg more Danes, Norwegians etc.

[Dragoon]

Slightly off topic but several questions for all:

When people talk about Germanic (the people) do they mean Nordic (North Germany/Denmark/Sweden area)?
The Germanic language (in this case Germany) originates in North Europe or came from Steppes?
Is it possible that Germanic (and specify what you mean if possible) people were in the area before the Germanic language was adopted?

[Mingle]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Britain_peoples_circa_600.svg/800px-Britain_peoples_circa_600.svg.png

There were also other tribes, but this is just a map of the biggest three. Frisians settled mostly in northeast England and southeast Scotland but aren't shown in this map.

[Mortimer]

I meant that not having "Saxony" in the state's name doesn't mean the people living there aren't necessarily Saxon. The earliest recorded mention, and likely origin, of Saxons is in modern day Holstein (which is still Saxon today).

Ok I didnt know this I admitt. But its nothing special to know this a quick google search can show you this. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachsen_(Volk)#Fr%C3%BCheste_Nennung And it says that now its doubted heavily that saxons were first in schleswig holstein. And probably from origins those guys are not more saxon then anyone else in that region. You said "they are still saxon" but the others arent. Also the saxons even if not initially settled in saxony and sachsenhalt might have later arrived and named that region saxony. Just like they arrived in england. Probably the german saxons are still more saxon then any english.




If you notice the GEDmatch results of some Serbs and Croats on TA, you'll notice they're pretty close to Austrians and East Germans. The user "TeutonicBoyars" is half-Danish and half-Russian and he gets East German as his top match. I can't find the thread he posted his results in at the moment.

That might be only a similarity between all northeuropeans. I pretty doubt they are half russian, where did all the russians come from? I also am similar to cohin jews for example greek+cohin jew but im neither greek nor cohin jew.

[Mingle]

Ok I didnt know this I admitt. But its nothing special to know this a quick google search can show you this. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachsen_(Volk)#Fr%C3%BCheste_Nennung And it says that now its doubted heavily that saxons were first in schleswig holstein. And probably from origins those guys are not more saxon then anyone else in that region. You said "they are still saxon" but the others arent. Also the saxons even if not initially settled in saxony and sachsenhalt might have later arrived and named that region saxony. Just like they arrived in england. Probably the german saxons are still more saxon then any english.

IMO, people roughly corresponding to this yellow area are Saxon since they traditionally spoke the Saxon language and are thus the cultural continuity of Saxons:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Low_Saxon_Dialects.svg/1200px-Low_Saxon_Dialects.svg.png


That might be only a similarity between all northeuropeans. I pretty doubt they are half russian, where did all the russians come from? I also am similar to cohin jews for example greek+cohin jew but im neither greek nor cohin jew.

Russians are just a proxy for Slavic (Polabian, Pomeranian), East Germans aren't actually half-Russian. The Slavic ancestry among East Germans is Pomeranian Slavic and Polabian Slavic. East Germany was historically Slavic. (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Slavic_tribes_in_the_7th_to_9th_century.jpg)

[Mortimer]

IMO, people roughly corresponding to this yellow area are Saxon since they traditionally spoke the Saxon language and are thus the cultural continuity of Saxons:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Low_Saxon_Dialects.svg/1200px-Low_Saxon_Dialects.svg.png



Russians are just a proxy for Slavic (Polabian, Pomeranian), East Germans aren't actually half-Russian. The Slavic ancestry among East Germans is Pomeranian Slavic and Polabian Slavic. East Germany was historically Slavic. (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Slavic_tribes_in_the_7th_to_9th_century.jpg)

i saw germans claiming that western poland was historically germanic, and they brought up some evidence. and that germanics were before then slavs in any of those regions but left and then the slavs came. poles will claim something else though. there is certainly mixing between those two tribes germans and slavs though historically but if germans are half slavs or pollacks are half-germans i dont know. there are germans who claim that pollacks are more germanic then germans.

[Mingle]

i saw germans claiming that western poland was historically germanic, and they brought up some evidence. and that germanics were before then slavs in any of those regions but left and then the slavs came. poles will claim something else though. there is certainly mixing between those two tribes germans and slavs though historically but if germans are half slavs or pollacks are half-germans i dont know. there are germans who claim that pollacks are more germanic then germans.

East Germanic people were in eastern Germany and western Poland first. Then Slavs later came to western Poland and east Germany. Afterwards, West Germanic people displaced the Slavs in eastern Germany and western Poland. Western Poland was then cleared of West Germanic people. Most people from western Poland aren't even native to western Poland, but are descended from Polish colonists from other parts of Poland (in addition to Poles from Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine).

Poles have some Germanic ancestry, but I doubt its half. Czechs and Slovenes likely have more Germanic ancestry than Poles do. East Germans and Austrians certainly have more Slavic ancestry than Poles have Germanic ancestry.

[Dragoon]

Find it hard to believe 50% of East Germans have Slavic. Maybe 25-33% for Balto-Slavic? and even so they are still largely German and German speaking. Some Germanics have some Slavic, and Slavs have some Germanic.
Tribes move over time. Borders shift.

[Peterski]

Entire Poland was supposedly Germanic in Late Antiquity (with Central Poland and Western Poland inhabited by Vandals etc., while Eastern Poland by Goths - who lived to the east of the Vistula River, in Wielbark Culture).

Actually Chernyakhov Culture in Ukraine was also Germanic according to most archaeologists and I know some leaks about 3 ancient DNA samples from Chernyakhov culture but I cannot reveal everything (I can only say that it seems to confirm that Western Ukraine was Germanic but sample from Central Ukraine - near the border of Chernyakhov and Kiev Culture - looks Proto-Slavic):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Chernyakhov.PNG

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Chernyakhov.PNG

[Peterski]

East Germanic people were in eastern Germany and western Poland first.

In no world was Wielbark culture (associated with Goths) located in western Poland. Goths lived between the Vistula River and the Black Sea. And eastern Germany did not have East Germanic tribes - it had Elbe Germanic (Irminonic) tribes, such as Suebians. Vandals lived in Central Poland and West-Central Poland - Wielkopolska (Greater Poland) region more or less. What is now Lubuskie had Burgundians.

[Mingle]

In no world was Wielbark culture (associated with Goths) located in western Poland. Goths lived between the Vistula River and the Black Sea. And eastern Germany did not have East Germanic tribes - it had Elbe Germanic (Irminonic) tribes, such as Suebians. Vandals lived in Central Poland and West-Central Poland - Wielkopolska (Greater Poland) region more or less. What is now Lubuskie had Burgundians.

My mistake. What do you think of the theory that the Vandals were Slavic by the way?

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Peterski]

I don't think so, on the other hand in my opinion Lugians (the ones in Poland) were Celtic, since the ethnonym is most likely of Celtic origin. The name Vandals appears in sources after the name Lugians disappears from them, so I suppose that it was some kind of a change of power (I guess Przeworsk culture was a multi-ethnic confederation of tribes).