7000 B.C Europe (Without IE People)

[Bosniensis]

7000 B.C. there was no IndoEuropeans in Europe, only Proto-Europeans.

I2 Haplogroup is native to Entire Europe, not just Balkans.

http://www.abroadintheyard.com/wp-content/uploads/Europe-c-7000-BC-8h-jpg.jpg

[Austrvegr]

Eastern Europe is Europe.

[Bosniensis]

Eastern Europe is Europe.

Moscow, Novgorod was I1 before.

Is there a good amount of I1/I2 in Russia Today?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Moscow, Novgorod was I1 before.

Is there a good amount of I1/I2 in Russia Today?

There is maybe about 5% I1.

I2 is 10%.

[Bosniensis]

There is maybe about 5% I1.

I2 is 10%.

I've found it's more actually:

The top four Y-DNA haplogroups among the sample of 1228 Russians are:[1]

Haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) – 19.8% to 62.7%, with an average of 46.7%
Haplogroup I (Y-DNA) – 0% to 26.8%, with an average of 17.6% (All regions), and 23.5% (Central and South Russia)
Haplogroup N (Y-DNA) – 5.4% to 53.7%, with averages of 21.6% (All regions), and 10% (Central and South Russia)
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA) – 0% to 14%, with an average of 5.8%

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I've found it's more actually:

The top four Y-DNA haplogroups among the sample of 1228 Russians are:[1]

Haplogroup R1a (Y-DNA) – 19.8% to 62.7%, with an average of 46.7%
Haplogroup I (Y-DNA) – 0% to 26.8%, with an average of 17.6% (All regions), and 23.5% (Central and South Russia)
Haplogroup N (Y-DNA) – 5.4% to 53.7%, with averages of 21.6% (All regions), and 10% (Central and South Russia)
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA) – 0% to 14%, with an average of 5.8%

Could be.

[Ülev]

We are the R1obots (https://youtu.be/VXa9tXcMhXQ)

[cosmoo]

Totally inaccurate map.
-There was not a single I1 attested in this period (earliest one is from Neolithic Hungary).
-West and Scandinavia were dominated by I2a1b (L621>CTS10228 of modern Balkans and Slavs originated in later), with some northern versions of I2a1a.
-Eastern Europe was mainly composed of several I2a2 branches, Balkan as well (in later periods some R1b branches related to V88 appeared, now mainly extinct).

Ease it up a bit with your Paleo-Balkan phantasms. Your subclade is not native to Balkans.

[Rethel]

7000 B.C. there was no IndoEuropeans in Europe, only Proto-Europeans.

I2 Haplogroup is native to Entire Europe, not just Balkans

You are not only showing fictional map from ficional time, but also can't read her... :picard2:
On this map are very Indoeuropeans in the very Europe - so, why do you write without? :picard1:

[Bosniensis]

Totally inaccurate map.
-There was not a single I1 attested in this period (earliest one is from Neolithic Hungary).
-West and Scandinavia were dominated by I2a1b (L621>CTS10228 of modern Balkans and Slavs originated in later), with some northern versions of I2a1a.
-Eastern Europe was mainly composed of several I2a2 branches, Balkan as well (in later periods some R1b branches related to V88 appeared, now mainly extinct).

Ease it up a bit with your Paleo-Balkan phantasms. Your subclade is not native to Balkans.

Who cares, the fact is that we have descended from I people, even if they came 10.000 - 25.000 years ago they are still our ancestors.

It was found in Poland, Ukraine... so what?

I2a1b originated from all previous I haplogroups up to I-M170.

Thing is, I Haplogroup is Proto-European not Indo-European like R Haplogroups who came LATER.

Even if we came from Ukraine, we came to a place where our distant ancestors lived anyway.

[Pahli]

IJ master race

[Bosniensis]

IJ master race

Yeah they were together at some point in early Paleolithic :D

[Pahli]

Yeah they were together at some point in early Paleolithic :D

Destroy the (R)etards :laugh:

[cosmoo]

Who cares, the fact is that we have descended from I people, even if they came 10.000 - 25.000 years ago they are still our ancestors.

It was found in Poland, Ukraine... so what?

I2a1b originated from all previous I haplogroups up to I-M170.

Thing is, I Haplogroup is Proto-European not Indo-European like R Haplogroups who came LATER.

Even if we came from Ukraine, we came to a place where our distant ancestors lived anyway.

It does matter, distribution of subclades on the map is inaccurate.
And you clearly misunderstood my point about Balkans like a halfwit.
I2a1b-CTS10228 was a branch native to Scandinavia prior to IE invasion, not to Balkans, and it arrived here only during Migration Era. Cut down on your Illyro-Roman LARPing.

[Bosniensis]

Destroy the (R)etards :laugh:

Well they have destroyed us.

They claim that Europe has "Indoeuropan" origins, but the truth is.. Europe was I, J, G not R.

R came from Asia, not Europe, while Europe was settled through Anatolia and Balkans by I and J people initially.

Literacy, language, culture came from primary from J and I people..

[Rethel]

Well they have destroyed us.

They claim that Europe has "Indoeuropan" origins, but the truth is.. Europe was I, J, G not R.

R came from Asia, not Europe, while Europe was settled through Anatolia and Balkans by I and J people initially.

Literacy, language, culture came from primary from J and I people..

Man, you yourself just showed a map, where IEs are IN EUROPE. :picard2:

[Bosniensis]

It does matter, distribution of subclades on the map is inaccurate.
And you clearly misunderstood my point about Balkans like a halfwit.
I2a1b-CTS10228 was a branch native to Scandinavia prior to IE invasion, not to Balkans, and it arrived here only during Migration Era. So cut down on your Illyro-Roman LARPing.

I know that, it's true just as explained in Book "Kingdom of Slavs" we came from Scandinavia long time ago, but other I haplogroups were in other parts of Europe.

I consider mine ALL I Haplogroups not just I2a1b... they are all my distant late paleolithic cousins.

Therefore we are NATIVE to ALL Europe, unlike Albanians and Indo-Europeans.

[Bosniensis]

Man, you yourself just showed a map, where IEs are IN EUROPE. :picard2:

It depends what you consider Europe.

If you think that Europe spans all over to Ural mountains then YES.

But thing is, nobody except IE people think that Europe goes up to Ural mountains.

Yes I see some R1 a bit beyond Ural mountains... what does that mean? Nothing.

[Pahli]

Man, you yourself just showed a map, where IEs are IN EUROPE. :picard2:

Its funny because your people got rekt by these R1 invaders, you were probably I1 / I2 prior to IE invasions

[Megadorian]

Rethard got triggered so badly, LOL

[kingjohn]

haplogroup i-m170
is ubermench
as stears like to say
deal with it ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gysum13GQwE
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/vls_smolich/36547418/1349509/1349509_900.jpg

[Bosniensis]

haplogroup i-m170
is ubermench
as stears like to say
deal with it ;)

xD

Stears is a King

We are Paleolithic Relatives ... our ancestors were of the same Haplogroup 22.000 years ago according to Nordtvedt xD

[kingjohn]

xD

Stears is a King

We are Paleolithic Relatives ... our ancestors were of the same Haplogroup 22.000 years ago according to Nordtvedt xD

famous people in haplogroup i-m170
https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/famous_y-dna_by_haplogroup.shtml#I2a2

[Bosniensis]

famous people in haplogroup i-m170
https://www.eupedia.com/genetics/famous_y-dna_by_haplogroup.shtml#I2a2

Chuck Norris is I2

No need to comment further.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Who cares, the fact is that we have descended from I people, even if they came 10.000 - 25.000 years ago they are still our ancestors.

It was found in Poland, Ukraine... so what?

I2a1b originated from all previous I haplogroups up to I-M170.

Thing is, I Haplogroup is Proto-European not Indo-European like R Haplogroups who came LATER.

Even if we came from Ukraine, we came to a place where our distant ancestors lived anyway.

Yes, but then you had to admit that you, under the name Slavs, invaded Balkan peninsula.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

If i would be the same, i wouldn't had problem to admit it.

[Bosniensis]

Yes, but then you had to admit that you, under the name Slavs, invaded Balkan peninsula.

Ok... but I Haplogroup was present on Balkans before US (some other nation) cause it expanded from Balkans.

So, those people (even if they don't exist anymore) were OUR ancestors, distant ancestors, while Ancestors of E and R people have nothing to do with Balkans in Late Paleolithic.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

haplogroup i-m170
is ubermench
as stears like to say
deal with it ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gysum13GQwE
https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/vls_smolich/36547418/1349509/1349509_900.jpg

If Stears discovered that he is haplogroup Q, he would say that this haplo is ubermensch.

So, it only depends which haplogroup is he, that haplogroup is ubermensch.

[Rethel]

It depends what you consider Europe.
If you think that Europe spans all over to Ural mountains then YES.


I do not have to consider neither think,
as Europe has clearly established borders...

If you think, that Europe is a continent
of your imagination, then you are wrong.


But thing is, nobody except IE people think that Europe goes up to Ural mountains.

:picard2:

[Rethel]

Its funny because your people got rekt by these R1 invaders, you were probably I1 / I2 prior to IE invasions

What are you raving about?

How could my people be I*?
How could I be I* before?
How could I, or my people be rekted
by R1, if I myself, and my people are R1... :picard2:

Did you smoke something?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

But thing is, nobody except IE people think that Europe goes up to Ural mountains.

That's the fact. Europe is before anything other, geographical continental name, then cultural. So, yes, Europe goes up to Ural mountains.

[Kelmendasi]

Ok... but I Haplogroup was present on Balkans before US (some other nation) cause it expanded from Balkans.

So, those people (even if they don't exist anymore) were OUR ancestors, distant ancestors, while Ancestors of E and R people have nothing to do with Balkans in Late Paleolithic.
What matters is the sub clade not the general haplo. R does has links to Palaeolithic Europe as R1b1 was found in Palaeolithic Europe and was also found in the WHG of Serbia.

[kingjohn]

What are you raving about?

How could my people be I*?
How could I be I* before?
How could I, or my people be rekted
by R1, if I myself, and my people are R1... :picard2:

Did you smoke something?

he talked to boesnius
not to you rethel von rethleski :)

[Kelmendasi]

I know that, it's true just as explained in Book "Kingdom of Slavs" we came from Scandinavia long time ago, but other I haplogroups were in other parts of Europe.

I consider mine ALL I Haplogroups not just I2a1b... they are all my distant late paleolithic cousins.

Therefore we are NATIVE to ALL Europe, unlike Albanians and Indo-Europeans.
Albanians and other Europeans are just as “native”

[Rethel]

he talked to boesnius
not to you rethel von rethleski :)

Look #19.

[Rethel]

Albanians and other Europeans are just as “native”

:popcorn:

[Bosniensis]

Albanians and other Europeans are just as “native”

We are not talking about Nations but Paternal haplogroups.

Truth is I and J were present on Balkans before E.

E people came later.

That's what migrations tell us.

IJ spread trough Anatolia, Balkan then rest of Europe, E had a different Path.

R haplogroups are invaders, but E haplogroups were brought here by J2 (Ionian Greeks) from their North African colonies.

[kingjohn]

We are not talking about Nations but Paternal haplogroups.

Truth is I and J were present on Balkans before E.

E people came later.

That's what migrations tell us.

IJ spread trough Anatolia, Balkan then rest of Europe, E had a different Path.

R haplogroups are invaders, but E haplogroups were brought here by J2 (Ionian Greeks) from their North African colonies.

how do you know?
e-v13 originated in europe
e-L618 his ancestor was found in 5000 bc dalmatia and 5000 bc catalunia iberia
this haplogroup is old not as old as i-m170 afcorse agree with you but maybe as old as j in europe :)

[Kelmendasi]

We are not talking about Nations but Paternal haplogroups.

Truth is I and J were present on Balkans before E.

E people came later.

That's what migrations tell us.

IJ spread trough Anatolia, Balkan then rest of Europe, E had a different Path.

R haplogroups are invaders, but E haplogroups were brought here by J2 (Ionian Greeks) from their North African colonies.
Nope, J came in at around the same time as E if not later than E. E in Europe(E-V13) originated in Europe so there is no way of it coming from North Africa via the Greeks, let alone the fact that the oldest E-V13 sample predates the Greeks by ages as it was from the Neolithic. IJ came into Europe through the Black Sea route according to certain sources. Anyways haplogroup I itself isn’t exactly “native” as its ancestor came from west Asia

[Bosniensis]

Nope, J came in at around the same time as E if not later than E. E in Europe(E-V13) originated in Europe so there is no way of it coming from North Africa via the Greeks, let alone the fact that the oldest E-V13 sample predates the Greeks by ages as it was from the Neolithic. IJ came into Europe through the Black Sea route according to certain sources. Anyways haplogroup I itself isn’t exactly “native” as its ancestor came from west Asia

The first Homo Sapiens in Europe were I people.

I came through Anatolia, through Balkan 30.000 years ago and settled across entire Europe (as shown in OP).

The most native people on Balkan (and Entire Europe) are I2 and I1 people.

At some point in time 90% of people in Europe were I, I2 and I1

Giving the fact that I2 Split in Greece and went towards Western Balkans, it make us (I2a1b) ancestors of the FIRST I2 people in Europe, (cause I2 formed in Western Balkans), somewhere 10-15.000 years ago.

Crete Culture was I2a was found on Crete, and it's about 7000 years distant to our I2a1b CTS

So How Alien are the Serbs, Bosniaks on Balkan when they were here along with Ionian Greeks?

Yes we came from Ukraine or Polands ... who cares.. when Entire Europe was I2

https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/i_haplogroup_migration_map.png

[Dibran]

Just face it. You were extinguished by the R1 horde. lol

[Bosniensis]

Just face it. You were extinguished by the R1 horde. lol

Yes. That is True.

Roman Empire fought R1 people.

I am saying this cause there is a massive propaganda by Greeks and Albanians calling us "foreigners", all I wanted to present that we were on Balkans looooong ago, and that
we don't deserve to be pushed around like some outsiders.

[Dibran]

I know that, it's true just as explained in Book "Kingdom of Slavs" we came from Scandinavia long time ago, but other I haplogroups were in other parts of Europe.

I consider mine ALL I Haplogroups not just I2a1b... they are all my distant late paleolithic cousins.

Therefore we are NATIVE to ALL Europe, unlike Albanians and Indo-Europeans.

Albanians are indo-europeans, you jack-ass.

[Bosniensis]

Albanians are indo-europeans, you jack-ass.

Indo-Europeans are only R people nobody else.

For example how can I2 be Indo-European when we have never set a foot on Caucasus.

EV13 came after us (I2) but it as well... came without going to Caucasus area:

https://aleximreh.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/hg-e.gif

J2 came with I2 previously (IJ)...

Indo-Europeans are only R1a and R1b people (1/3 Serbs, some Albanians etc..)

But NO, E,I, J = not indo-europeans.

[greasycaveman]

so R1b came from the steppes? steppe pride!

[Dibran]

Indo-Europeans are only R people nobody else.

For example how can I2 be Indo-European when we have never set a foot on Caucasus.

EV13 came after us (I2) but it as well... came without going to Caucasus area:

https://aleximreh.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/hg-e.gif

J2 came with I2 previously (IJ)...

Indo-Europeans are only R1a and R1b people (1/3 Serbs, some Albanians etc..)

But NO, E,I, J = not indo-europeans.

Maybe not originally you mentally challenged fuck. But, E-V13 is now believed(along with J2b/J2a) to have arrived in the late neolithic early bronze age with Indo-Europeans. If you honestly think Indo-Europeans carried just one Y-DNA with them when they arrived, you're utterly retarded. Also the only Proto-Euro language we know of is Basque at the moment. Albanian including South Slavic is an indo european language and culture. Accept it moron.

[Bosniensis]

Maybe not originally you mentally challenged fuck. But, E-V13 is now believed(along with J2b/J2a) to have arrived in the late neolithic early bronze age with Indo-Europeans. If you honestly think Indo-Europeans carried just one Y-DNA with them when they arrived, you're utterly retarded. Also the only Proto-Euro language we know of is Basque at the moment. Albanian including South Slavic is an indo european language and culture. Accept it moron.

The only languages that are Indo-European are Germanic and Turkic languages and their derivatives.

Why do you think that Proto-Europeans (I, J, E) people could not develop their own language completely unrelated to R1a, R1b and N people for example?

It is propaganda... to make everything "Germanic related".. or how they used to say up to 1850 "Indo-Germanic" before they switched to "Indo-European".

Those are Fairy Tales.

Latin, Slavic, Albanian, Greek, Celtic = I, E, J languages = Proto-European languages.

I admit that we follow Indo-European culture, after all they rule the modern world.

After they have defeated Roman Empire they have assimilated and corrupted all knowledge they could put their hands on.

Modern Romance languages are nothing but Germanic-Latin mixed languages completely unrelated to Ancient Languages.

Slavic like language was used in Ancient Thrace 500 B.C. when Indo-Europeans were just pushing towards river Rhine.

[Kelmendasi]

The first Homo Sapiens in Europe were I people.

I came through Anatolia, through Balkan 30.000 years ago and settled across entire Europe (as shown in OP).

The most native people on Balkan (and Entire Europe) are I2 and I1 people.

At some point in time 90% of people in Europe were I, I2 and I1

Giving the fact that I2 Split in Greece and went towards Western Balkans, it make us (I2a1b) ancestors of the FIRST I2 people in Europe, (cause I2 formed in Western Balkans), somewhere 10-15.000 years ago.

Crete Culture was I2a was found on Crete, and it's about 7000 years distant to our I2a1b CTS

So How Alien are the Serbs, Bosniaks on Balkan when they were here along with Ionian Greeks?

Yes we came from Ukraine or Polands ... who cares.. when Entire Europe was I2

[IG]https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/i_haplogroup_migration_map.png[/IMG]
Nope, the first homo-sapiens to enter Europe were IJ and C1a2/C1b and didn’t migrate into Europe via one route but multiple such as the route into the Balkans from Anatolia and the route in the Black Sea. The I2 split was most likely north of Greece. Ancient samples from Crete were only J2a and G2a going by what I have seen and not I2

[Kelmendasi]

Indo-Europeans are only R people nobody else.

For example how can I2 be Indo-European when we have never set a foot on Caucasus.

EV13 came after us (I2) but it as well... came without going to Caucasus area:

[IM]https://aleximreh.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/hg-e.gif[/IMG]

J2 came with I2 previously (IJ)...

Indo-Europeans are only R1a and R1b people (1/3 Serbs, some Albanians etc..)

But NO, E,I, J = not indo-europeans.
Again, J2 came later on during the Neolithic and Bronze Age from West Asia. I2 subclades did become part of the Indo-European ethnogenesis as shown by a certain clade of I2a2a found in Bulgaria which is from a Yamna sub-culture. Also I2 has been found around the Steppes which is near the Caucasus

[greasycaveman]

The only languages that are Indo-European are Germanic and Turkic languages and their derivatives.

Why do you think that Proto-Europeans (I, J, E) people could not develop their own language completely unrelated to R1a, R1b and N people for example?

It is propaganda... to make everything "Germanic related".. or how they used to say up to 1850 "Indo-Germanic" before they switched to "Indo-European".

Those are Fairy Tales.

Latin, Slavic, Albanian, Greek, Celtic = I, E, J languages = Proto-European languages.

I admit that we follow Indo-European culture, after all they rule the modern world.

After they have defeated Roman Empire they have assimilated and corrupted all knowledge they could put their hands on.

Modern Romance languages are nothing but Germanic-Latin mixed languages completely unrelated to Ancient Languages.

Slavic like language was used in Ancient Thrace 500 B.C. when Indo-Europeans were just pushing towards river Rhine.

so what do you think is the indoeuropean language that indoeuropeans spoke in the steppes, or basically Russia, before they came to europe?

[Rethel]

Indo-Europeans are only R people nobody else.

For example how can I2 be Indo-European (...)

Indo-Europeans are only R1a and R1b people (1/3 Serbs, some Albanians etc..)

But NO, E,I, J = not indo-europeans.

One sane post since long ago... :)

[Bosniensis]

so what do you think is the indoeuropean language that indoeuropeans spoke in the steppes, or basically Russia, before they came to europe?

We don't know. Probably they incorporated Slavic from those I2 people who lived in those areas as well. There are still about 20% I2 people in Russia even if R1a is dominant.

[Rethel]

I2 subclades did become part of the Indo-European ethnogenesis

Nope, as IE ethnogenesis had place before they ever met any I2 - and vice versa.

[Rethel]

Probably they incorporated Slavic from those I2 people who lived in those areas as well.

:picard2: :coffee:

[Bosniensis]

Again, J2 came later on during the Neolithic and Bronze Age from West Asia. I2 subclades did become part of the Indo-European ethnogenesis as shown by a certain clade of I2a2a found in Bulgaria which is from a Yamna sub-culture. Also I2 has been found around the Steppes which is near the Caucasus

It is undisputed fact that I2 has never migrated from Caucasus but from MENA -> Anatolia -> Balkans then split to two paths to conquer Europe.

People who claim that I2 is indo-european are insane just like those who claim that EV13 or J2 is Indo-European.

I2 originated on Western Balkans, that's the truth.

Modern South Slavs are just people who split from those branches long ago, who lived in Poland, Ukraine then basically came back HOME.

"I2 subclades did become part of the Indo-European ethnogenesis"

There is only possibility that those people lived among Indo-Europeans for some time, how could they become something they are not?

Also when I2 settled Ukraine and Poland there was no Indo-Europeans there, they were preparing to conquer those places which triggered massive migrations to Balkans and other places.

[Rethel]

The only languages that are Indo-European are Germanic and Turkic languages and their derivatives.

:1127: :033102st: :picard1:


Latin, Slavic, Albanian, Greek, Celtic = I, E, J languages = Proto-European languages.

:1127: :033102st: :picard1:

[Dick]

xD

Stears is a King

We are Paleolithic Relatives ... our ancestors were of the same Haplogroup 22.000 years ago according to Nordtvedt xD

wonderful. I'm related to stears and bosniensis :rolleyes:

[kingjohn]

haplogroup i m-170 is ubermenchen deal
with it ;)

dick , stears , boesnius, boby martanen , and sky brun ;)

[Rethel]

wonderful. I'm related to stears and bosniensis :rolleyes:

:laugh:

[Dick]

haplogroup i m-170 is ubermenchen deal
with it ;)

dick , stears , boesnius, boby martanen , and sky brun ;)

You forgot Hamlet! Freedom for Hamlet.

[greasycaveman]

We don't know. Probably they incorporated Slavic from those I2 people who lived in those areas as well. There are still about 20% I2 people in Russia even if R1a is dominant.

Are slavs indoeuropean? am i indoeuropean? im half russian half british, and my ydna is R1b?

[kingjohn]

You forgot Hamlet! Freedom for Hamlet.

i miss this jew;)
i feal alone in this forum :)

[Kelmendasi]

It is undisputed fact that I2 has never migrated from Caucasus but from MENA -> Anatolia -> Balkans then split to two paths to conquer Europe.

People who claim that I2 is indo-european are insane just like those who claim that EV13 or J2 is Indo-European.

I2 originated on Western Balkans, that's the truth.

Modern South Slavs are just people who split from those branches long ago, who lived in Poland, Ukraine then basically came back HOME.

"I2 subclades did become part of the Indo-European ethnogenesis"

There is only possibility that those people lived among Indo-Europeans for some time, how could they become something they are not?

Also when I2 settled Ukraine and Poland there was no Indo-Europeans there, they were preparing to conquer those places which triggered massive migrations to Balkans and other places.
There is archeological evidence which shows that some humans migrated into Europe through the Black Sea back when it was just a lake. Nobody said that I2 is IE, but it was absorbed by them.

[Kelmendasi]

Nope, as IE ethnogenesis had place before they ever met any I2 - and vice versa.
I meant that it was absorbed by them

[kingjohn]

Are slavs indoeuropean? am i indoeuropean? im half russian half british, and my ydna is R1b?

yes you are
r1b was found in yamnaya remains
and slavs are also indo eropean :)

p.s
people in pakistan and punjab score soem east slavic in k29 kurd calculator
so those slavs are indo europpean

[de Burgh II]

True descendants of old Europa... :nod:

[greasycaveman]

yes you are
r1b was found in yamnaya remains
and slavs are also indo eropean :)

p.s
people in pakistan and punjab score soem east slavic in k29 kurd calculator
so those slavs are indo europpean

im proud to be indo-european, i will pass on my R1b some day!

[kingjohn]

im proud to be indo-european, i will pass on my R1b some day!

r1b is more indo european than r1a :)
sorry rethel ;)

[greasycaveman]

r1b is more indo european than r1a :)
sorry rethel ;)

yeah but it descends from R1a

[Bosniensis]

Roman Empire was the last stand against R1a, R1b people... after collapse in 480 (some would say 1453/1921) but we must accept the fact
that Indo-Europeans are complete masters of Europe.

This was the last map when I,J,E people Ruled the Europe (117 A.D map)

(Those R1b in Gaul is incorrect, I2a2 was there).

https://i.imgur.com/naZ2Vn3.jpg

[kingjohn]

yeah but it descends from R1a

no you are not descendnets from r1a
but they are your brothers
both r1a and r1b descendnets from r1 { in other words you share common ancestor named r1}

[Rethel]

I meant that it was absorbed by them

Aaa... then ok.

[Rethel]

and slavs are also indo eropean :)

But he seems to have no idea if he is Celt, Slav or German :laugh:

[Rethel]

r1b is more indo european than r1a :)
sorry rethel ;)

:picard2:

How, if R1 is IE, or even R*.

[kingjohn]

:picard2:

How, if R1 is IE, or even R*.

so my mistake all the r1 branch is indio european
but don't forget the r1b-v88 that was found in neolithic iberia
they didn't spoke indo-european language so some branches of r1b are not indo-european ....

[Rethel]

they didn't spoke indo-european language so some branches of r1b are not indo-european ....

You can't know what they spoke, but originaly they spoke indo-european, as any Indoeuropean.
If they during their trek absorbed some other language, no big deal. Language is just a tool.

[kingjohn]

You can't know what they spoke, but originaly they spoke indo-european, as any Indoeuropean.
If they during their trek absorbed some other language, no big deal. Language is just a tool.

what about the r1b taht are found in cameroon central africa
they are black as the night are they also indo-european acording to you{ since they are r1b} ?

[Rethel]

what about the r1b taht are found in cameroon central africa
they are black as the night are they also indo-european acording to you{ since they are r1b} ?

Of course they are Indoeuropeans, the
same as Falashas and Lembas are Jews...
Lembas are probably even partialy Israelites.
And they don;t deny it. Should they be nordic
as Achkenazis to be Jews and Israelites? Nope.
The same is with Indoeuropeans.

[greasycaveman]

But he seems to have no idea if he is Celt, Slav or German :laugh:

haha im a mutt

[kingjohn]

Of course they are Indoeuropeans, the
same as Falashas and Lembas are Jews...
Lembas are probably even partialy Israelites.
And they don;t deny it. Should they be nordic
as Achkenazis to be Jews and Israelites? Nope.
The same is with Indoeuropeans.

:rofl_002:

[Rethel]

:rofl_002:

Gottcha! (https://selfuni.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/the-real-jew.jpg?w=396) :laugh:

[kingjohn]

Gottcha! (https://selfuni.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/the-real-jew.jpg?w=396) :laugh:

you sound ridiclous
how people who are black as the night can be indo-european
i just show you now that the obsesion with y haplogroup and ignoring autosomal are fucking crazy :crazy:

[cosmoo]

What matters is the sub clade not the general haplo. R does has links to Palaeolithic Europe as R1b1 was found in Palaeolithic Europe and was also found in the WHG of Serbia.
No, it doesn't. A few stragglers in fringe areas of Europe (closer to African R1b than IE) do not make it native to Europe.



Giving the fact that I2 Split in Greece and went towards Western Balkans, it make us (I2a1b) ancestors of the FIRST I2 people in Europe, (cause I2 formed in Western Balkans), somewhere 10-15.000 years ago.

Crete Culture was I2a was found on Crete, and it's about 7000 years distant to our I2a1b CTS

You are trying hard to link any I2 to Balkans, but there is no evidence that even I2 as a whole formed on Balkans, it most probably formed in Late Gravettian/Magdalenian of western/central Europe during LGM, and ancestors of our specific subclade dwelt just south of ice sheets in northern Germany for thousands of years as part of Ahrensburg culture and those preceding it, before they penetrated into Scandinavia with glacier retreat.
Do not even try to push native Balkanness, and moreover, to try and connect yourself to Romans, AYLMAO. Their principal haplogroup was R1b-U152.

[Kelmendasi]

No, it doesn't. A few stragglers in fringe areas of Europe (closer to African R1b than IE) do not make it native to Europe.



You are trying hard to link any I2 to Balkans, but there is no evidence that even I2 as a whole formed on Balkans, it most probably formed in Late Gravettian/Magdalenian of western/central Europe during LGM, and ancestors of our specific subclade dwelt just south of ice sheets in northern Germany for thousands of years as part of Ahrensburg culture before they penetrated into Scandinavia with glacier retreat.
Do not even try to push native Balkanness, and moreover, to try and connect yourself to Romans, AYLMAO. Their principal haplogroup was R1b-U152.
Yh I know, was just mentioning it to him that R was present in some ancient samples

[Tschaikisten]

Totally inaccurate map.
-There was not a single I1 attested in this period (earliest one is from Neolithic Hungary).
-West and Scandinavia were dominated by I2a1b (L621>CTS10228 of modern Balkans and Slavs originated in later), with some northern versions of I2a1a.
-Eastern Europe was mainly composed of several I2a2 branches, Balkan as well (in later periods some R1b branches related to V88 appeared, now mainly extinct).

Ease it up a bit with your Paleo-Balkan phantasms. Your subclade is not native to Balkans.

+ G(2a) is native to Anatolia, not Caucasus. Shitty map based on modern percents.

[kleenex]

I believe G2A was present in Thessaly during and/or prior to 7000 BCE.

[Rethel]

how people who are black as the night can be indo-european

How people who are nordics can be Jews?
How people who are black as night can be Jews?
How people yellow like lemon juice can be Jews?
And still think about themselves as one entity
being directly descened from Abraham?

You, as a Jew, talking about it like that, are the most ridiculous... it
mean, you don;t even know, neither understand your own background. :picard2:

And I don't know, if you know, but Indoeurpeanness is not a race.
Even before genetic era, Indoeuropeans where white, swarthy and
black, as speakers live not only n Europe, but also in Asia and India.

So why, after discovering IE forefather,
everything should change in the terms of race? :picard2:

Interesingly, mostly non-IE have the biggest problem with nonwhite IEs... :picard1:

[Peterski]

Europe without Indo-Europeans was so boring and sad.

[Rethel]

Europe without Indo-Europeans was so boring and sad.

Bosniensis claim, that Europe never was without IEs, so... at least his map showed it.

[kingjohn]

How people who are nordics can be Jews?
How people who are black as night can be Jews?
How people yellow like lemon juice can be Jews?
And still think about themselves as one entity
being directly descened from Abraham?

You, as a Jew, talking about it like that, are the most ridiculous... it
mean, you don;t even know, neither understand your own background. :picard2:

And I don't know, if you know, but Indoeurpeanness is not a race.
Even before genetic era, Indoeuropeans where white, swarthy and
black, as speakers live not only n Europe, but also in Asia and India.

So why, after discovering IE forefather,
everything should change in the terms of race? :picard2:

Interesingly, mostly non-IE have the biggest problem with nonwhite IEs... :picard1:

the falsha are not jewish so are the lemba
don't care if they carry j1
they are black from head to toe .....
my relgion as nothing to do with it you talk from your ass now ....
mtdna h3 was found in srubna culture in the steppe
they spoke indo-european langauge so who gives a fuck
y dna and mtdna are not that important focus on autosomal waco ...... :)

[Bosniensis]

You are trying hard to link any I2 to Balkans, but there is no evidence that even I2 as a whole formed on Balkans, it most probably formed in Late Gravettian/Magdalenian of western/central Europe during LGM, and ancestors of our specific subclade dwelt just south of ice sheets in northern Germany for thousands of years as part of Ahrensburg culture and those preceding it, before they penetrated into Scandinavia with glacier retreat.
Do not even try to push native Balkanness, and moreover, to try and connect yourself to Romans, AYLMAO. Their principal haplogroup was R1b-U152.

I've seen dozens of websites, maps that show that I2 was formed North of Greece, then migrated to entire Europe from there.

I don't think I am trying "hard" to prove something... I think I am just sharing obvious.

Romans were NOT Indo-Euroepan people, they fought those people and Lost. Now, you will certainly hear many IE people claiming otherwise.. for
example do you believe that Charlemagne was Roman? Are Franks, Lombards, Normans = Romans? Of course not.

Romans are J2, I2 and Ev13 people (predominantly) with some R (who were yet a minority in those times then multiplied and took over Roman Empire).