Compulsory Education

[Psychonaut]

How do you feel about compulsory education?

I'm of the opinion that education should be compulsory up until the end of Middle School (about 13-14 years old) and that after that both traditional High Schools and a wide array of vocational schools should be provided by the state, but be entirely non-compulsory. I think that most people in the US are overeducated. So much of what is taught in High School and especially College is quickly forgotten and never really needed by the majority of people. I mean, if the Army can teach you how to do any given military job in under two years, there's no reason a similarly structured system of trade schools shouldn't be applied among the general populace. The way we do things now continually delays adulthood and keeps people dependent on their parents far longer than is probably healthy.

What are your thoughts?

[Octothorpe]

This is going to sound odd, but I'm a teacher in public school who no longer believes in compulsory education. Young ones go to school (elementary) because, as children, they can be compulsed by their parents. However, the young adults I teach should not be forced to attend a government-sanctioned propaganda mill. Yes, I'd be out of a job, but that simply means I'd have to find another way to pay the mortgage. Will some lose out? Sure, but they always did so in the past, and we got through it. The most amazing statistic I've ever seen clearly shows that the U.S. had a higher literacy rate prior to compulsory school attendance than after. We've spent hundreds of billions, maybe over a trillion, of dollars in public education and ended up with dumber citizens than when we told folks to 'root hog, or die.' Time to root for yourselves, folks. Real competition would force folks to work just that much harder--and that'd bode well for the economy.

[Æmeric]

I think the main reason for compulsory education is to provide employment to the members of the marxist-feminist dominated teachers unions. And a lot of kids graduate from public high school in the US pretty ignorant anyway after 13 years (counting kindergarten) of mandatory public education. They might learn more on their own then at school (I did) or by going out in the work force or doing an apprenticeship - learning actual job skills.

As long as we're on the subject, am I the only one who thinks social studies is the most useless subject tought in public schools? Except for maybe PE?

[Skandi]

I think that education should be compulsory up to 14-15, below that age the child should not be left on their own and without somewhere free to go parents would be totally stuck and be unable to work. After that it shouldn't be compulsory but should still be free, either continue on in the academic world or get an apprenticeship just like our parents did. This would enable schools to remove troublemakers and improve the quality of the teaching for the children who do want to learn, forcing a child to stay in education does not, unfortunately, force them to learn. I think it's absolutely stupid that the age here has been raised to 18.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Hard to say. On the one hand, no child would voluntarily attend school if given the choice, not until at least the teenage years, when it would be too late. On the other hand, there's a lot of troublemaking kids in the schools who don't learn anything and just make life hell for the kids who are actually somewhat interested in learning.

Perhaps the best solution would be to have standardized testing every year, for every kid, public or private school, homeschooled or just learning on their own. Up until age 14 or 16 or so, if they fail the test, they have to go to some sort of boot camp style school until they are caught up.

Certainly, the 19th century style 'one size fits all' schools have got to go.

[Æmeric]

no child would voluntarily attend school if given the choice

I was thinking it would be up to the parents to make the choice.:coffee:

[SwordoftheVistula]

I was thinking it would be up to the parents to make the choice.:coffee:

Yeah, but there's a lot of lazy parents who wouldn't make their kids go to school.

[Æmeric]

But those kids are probably not learning anything anyway. They are probably the disruptive students.

The lazy parents you speak of would probably make their younger children go to school anyway, as the public school system is also a defacto daycare center. Free babysitting. Some of these lazy parents enroll their kids in headstart for that very reason.

[Beorn]

I did vote 'other', but:


Yes, for Elementary, Middle School, High School and College

I'd think it best to make it compulsory up till the age of 16.
I see no need to make college and further education compulsory.

By the age of 16, you should have an inkling as to your chosen career, and spend the next years learning your trade.

With all this said though, I would very much welcome the less academically inclined to have the right to drop out from schooling and enter a professional apprenticeship.

By the age of 12 I had had my fill of school and my time was spent mostly being disruptive, suspended and being a general arsehole about the school grounds
A chance to actively engage in an apprenticeship would have been ideal for me.

[Rasvalg]

I think that children up until they are 18 should be compelled to go to school. I attend to agree with psychonaut though that beginning with high school or even the 8th grade year kids should be allowed to go to tech schools rather than traditional high school where a trade can be learned so that by the time that they are 18 and going to be out on their own they can go into a field of their choosing.
I see some of what my girlfriends kids bring home for homework and I must say that when I help them even I have to stop to think and they are only in 3rd grade. My son who is a freshman in High School...oh my gosh the stuff they are trying to cram in his brain.

[Psychonaut]

Yeah, but there's a lot of lazy parents who wouldn't make their kids go to school.

Yeah, but I'm not so sure that would be a bad thing. Much of the point of compulsory education is a kind of enforced egalitarianism, which I don't think necessarily serves society. making certain levels of education non-compulsory would do two things. First, it would make it so that teachers needn't dumb down the curriculums for the kids who don't want to be there. Th efforts and time of educators would no longer need to be spent on keeping problem children in school. This would allow education to be focused on making the best and the brightest better rather than catering to the dumbest of the dumb. Secondly, having a relatively uneducated underclass would lead to increased social stratification, which, IMHO, would be a most excellent thing.