Classify Sandzakian Bosniak Esad Dudžo

[Ayetooey]

He claims lineage from the medieval slavic Bosnian kingdom, what do you think? Classification and where does he pass.

https://sandzakhaber.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/wpid-esad-dzudzevic-spomen-ploca-acif-efendija-acif-hadziahmetovic-novi-pazar-1345834543-201434.jpg
http://sandzakpress.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Esad-Dzudzo-2-620x400.jpg
http://sandzakpress.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/11.jpg

[Pribislav]

Arabid + Armenoid.

Could fit easy in Jordan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

[Ayetooey]

Arabid and Armenoid.

Could fit easy in Jorda, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

I always thought it was just Albanians, and then Turks who were settled in Sandzak, then I read this.

A large demographic shift occurred as Serbs fought several wars against the Ottoman Empire. The Turks drove the Christian population northwards, while Muslims were driven to the Ottoman territory. The land abandoned by the Serbs was settled by Muslims, mainly ethnic Serbs who confessed Islam and Turks, but also significant population from the Caucasus, the Middle East and the Asia Minor. Large migrations occurred throughout the 18th and 19th century.

So Arabs, Caucasians etc were settled in Sandzak not just Turks. This guy could easily have some Arab ancestry, he looks more Arab admixed than Turk.

[Mingle]

Arabid + Armenoid.

Could fit easy in Jorda, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

He can pass as Punjabi too. Wonder if he has Roma blood.

[Pribislav]

I always thought it was just Albanians, and then Turks who were settled in Sandzak, then I read this.

A large demographic shift occurred as Serbs fought several wars against the Ottoman Empire. The Turks drove the Christian population northwards, while Muslims were driven to the Ottoman territory. The land abandoned by the Serbs was settled by Muslims, mainly ethnic Serbs who confessed Islam and Turks, but also significant population from the Caucasus, the Middle East and the Asia Minor. Large migrations occurred throughout the 18th and 19th century.

So Arabs, Caucasians etc were settled in Sandzak not just Turks. This guy could easily have some Arab ancestry, he looks more Arab admixed than Turk.

Behind name Turks ware hidden folks such as Arabs, Kurds, Caucasians, Levantines... Every muslim who was not from Balkans was "Turk" for Christian Balkanites and also from native Balkans Muslims.

[Ayetooey]

He can pass as Punjabi too. Wonder if he has Roma blood.

He could have anything tbh, paternally over 70 percent have Gheg Albanian origin, but autosomally they could be mixed with Turk, North African, Arab, Gypsy, Caucasian etc, whatever the Ottomans shipped in there. He looks Palestinian to me more than Roma.

[Dukagjini]

He could have anything tbh, paternally over 70 percent have Gheg Albanian origin, but autosomally they could be mixed with Turk, North African, Arab, Gypsy, Caucasian etc, whatever the Ottomans shipped in there. He looks Palestinian to me more than Roma.

Why do you keep changing your avatar and user info lol

[Cristiano viejo]

Could pass as Arab, Turk and North African very easily.

[MiloshN]

Why do you keep changing your avatar and user info lol

all ''heroes'' of Sandzak are still alive ...

[Pribislav]

Esad Džudžo is too dark and exotic for average Syrians. Am I right?

[Ayetooey]

Esad Džudžo is too dark and exotic for average Syrians. Am I right?

He looks distinctly Palestinian to me.

[Pribislav]

He looks distinctly Palestinian to me.

Palestinians are visible darker than Syrians on average.
Palestinians have more Arabids and north African types. Syrians have more Meds.
Syria has the most people which could pass in southern Europe of all Middle Eastern countries (If we don't count Turkey).

[rein]

Buy him a genetic test to see if he’s 100% Balkan. Or not.

[Pribislav]

Buy him a genetic test to see if he’s 100% Balkan. Or not.

It's hard to me to believe that he would be 100% Balkan.

This man must be heavy MENA influenced.

[Ayetooey]

Buy him a genetic test to see if he’s 100% Balkan. Or not.

He would never do one, it would destroy his political narrative. By paternal dna over 70 percent of Sandzakians are of Gheg Albanian origin not Slavic origin like they claim, in terms of autosomal plotting, there's very little out there. Some Sandzakians look more Balkan Albanian, but someone like Esad would likely plot close to West Asians, he doesn't look Balkan at all.

[rein]

He would never do one, it would destroy his political narrative. By paternal dna over 70 percent of Sandzakians are of Gheg Albanian origin, in terms of autosomal plotting, there's very little out there. Some Sandzakians look more Balkan Albanian, but someone like Esad would likely plot close to West Asians, he doesn't look Balkan at all.

Only one way to find out.

[Ayetooey]

Only one way to find out.

He believes he is a Slavic Bosnian with ancestry from the medieval Bosnian state. I think he looks in the mirror and knows this is not true, but taking a dna test would be a step too far. I'd love to see some Sandzakian autosomal results but there's not much out there.

[Pribislav]

He believes he is a Slavic Bosnian with ancestry from the medieval Bosnian state. I think he looks in the mirror and knows this is not true, but taking a dna test would be a step too far. I'd love to see some Sandzakian autosomal results but there's not much out there.

Actually Sandžaklis bealive that the are Illyrins, and Bosnian muslims also claim Illyrian origin. Sandžaklis neither Bosnian muslims don't want to have anything with Slavs.
They say that Tvrtko, Kulin Ban and Matej Nonoslav were Illyrians.
Some muslims are obsessed with Goths, especially Bosnian one. Still Illyrians are quite more popular.

[Mingle]

He believes he is a Slavic Bosnian with ancestry from the medieval Bosnian state. I think he looks in the mirror and knows this is not true, but taking a dna test would be a step too far. I'd love to see some Sandzakian autosomal results but there's not much out there.

On the K15 PCA (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyn3orovma7jb8y/k15ByCountries.png?dl=0) created by an Anthrogenica user, there was a person that appeared to be a Sanjak Bosniak ('BosnjakinjaSandzak'). You can see them at the bottom right corner here:

https://i.imgur.com/2lnSlZO.png?1

I just sent a PM to the guy that made that map in case he has more info on this person.

BTW, on this PCA, the further south means the more northern shift and the further west means the more eastern shift, as you can see with Serbs plotting southwest of Albanians despite being "genetically northeast" of them. This Sanjak person appears to be somewhat equidistant between the Albanian cluster and Serbian cluster. But they aren't really close to either. This is only one person so likely not representative but its a start.

[Ayetooey]

On the K15 PCA (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tyn3orovma7jb8y/k15ByCountries.png?dl=0) created by an Anthrogenica user, there was a person that appeared to be a Sanjak Bosniak ('BosnjakinjaSandzak'). You can see them at the bottom right corner here:

https://i.imgur.com/2lnSlZO.png?1

I just sent a PM to the guy that made that map in case he has more info on this person.

BTW, on this PCA, the further south means the more northern shift and the further west means the more eastern shift, as you can see with Serbs plotting southwest of Albanians despite being "genetically northeast" of them. This Sanjak person appears to be somewhat equidistant between the Albanian cluster and Serbian cluster. But they aren't really close to either.

Interesting. Sandzakians can be quite different depending on what town they are from, so I'd be curious as to what town he is from. Novi Pazar will have more Turkish and Mena influenced than somewhere in North Sandzak like prijepolje.

[Mingle]

Interesting. Sandzakians can be quite different depending on what town they are from, so I'd be curious as to what town he is from. Novi Pazar will have more Turkish and Mena influenced than somewhere in North Sandzak like prijepolje.

He gave me the coordinates and the PCA is public so I think its okay to share this. He says he got this from a Serb or Bosniak. This is their Eurogenes K15. There isn't anything else available.

North_Sea 20.73
Atlantic 14.38
Baltic 15.22
Eastern_Euro 11.16
West_Med 17.76
West_Asian 5.49
East_Med 12.95
Red_Sea 1.5
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.2
Oceanian 0.61
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

[Khamzat]

He can pass as far as Pakistan lol

[Pribislav]

He gave me the coordinates and the PCA is public so I think its okay to share this. He says he got this from a Serb or Bosniak. This is their Eurogenes K15. There isn't anything else available.

North_Sea 20.73
Atlantic 14.38
Baltic 15.22
Eastern_Euro 11.16
West_Med 17.76
West_Asian 5.49
East_Med 12.95
Red_Sea 1.5
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.2
Oceanian 0.61
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Do you have population sharing, or some other caltulators?

I suppose that this guy is from western Sandžak. They have more Serbian ancestors than those from eastern Sandžak.

[Ayetooey]

Do you have population sharing, or some other caltulators?

I suppose that this guy is from western Sandžak. They have more Serbian ancestors than those from eastern Sandžak.

I've noticed people from North-West Sandzak look more Slavic, I read that most of them are genuine Muslim Serbs by descent, an example of one.

http://users.minmedia.me/media/519d000557bd3.jpg

[Mingle]

Do you have population sharing, or some other caltulators?

I suppose that this guy is from western Sandžak. They have more Serbian ancestors than those from eastern Sandžak.

Unfortunately no. I got this info based off the coordinates he used to plot the person on the PCA. The only information he had was the coordinates and he got the coordinates from somebody else (he doesn't remember who). They look like a balanced Serb-Albanian mix, right?

[Dick]

Unfortunately no. I got this info based off the coordinates he used to plot the person on the PCA. The only information he had was the coordinates and he got the coordinates from somebody else (he doesn't remember who). They look like a balanced Serb-Albanian mix, right?

Not really. More like Macedonians.

[Ayetooey]

Not really. More like Macedonians.

Might be Crn Volks gedmatch results.

[tipirneni]

Unfortunately no. I got this info based off the coordinates he used to plot the person on the PCA. The only information he had was the coordinates and he got the coordinates from somebody else (he doesn't remember who). They look like a balanced Serb-Albanian mix, right?

Does North Sea & baltic values look higher ? He seem to have more North African/Med mix look.

[Dick]

Might be Crn Volks gedmatch results.

Crn Wallack. But seriously need to see mixed modes and other calc results not just eurogenes

[Mingle]

Does North Sea & baltic values look higher ? He seem to have more North African/Med mix look.These aren't the results of the guy in the OP. Its a completely unrelated person.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Ayetooey]

These aren't the results of the guy in the OP. Its a completely unrelated person.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

I get the feeling if there's any serious Sandzak dna testing, it'll just get mixed with the Bosniak results, unlike the Serb dna projects which often separate Y dna and autosomal results based on region, Bosniaks just mix them all together, and they take in groups which are completely unrelated to Bosnia which makes it even harder to make an accurate estimation. Example, this line from the Bosniak dna project of FTDNA.


The Bosniak DNA project has launched with the aim of identifying the genetic image and origin of Bosniaks in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Sandzak and other countries throughout the Balkans and diaspora. Everyone who identifies as a Bosniak, as well as those who declare themselves as Gorans, Torbesh and other Muslim folk living among the Bosniaks is welcome to the group.

There should be an entirely separate Sandzak dna project, they are ethnically unique in the Balkans.

[Ayetooey]

This is Y dna samples previously shared by user Morlak.

E1b1b.....71.264% (62)
R1b........6.896% (6)
I1..........4.597% (4)
I2..........3.448% (3)
R1a........3.448% (3)
J2a.........3.448% (3)
J2b.........2.298% (2)
C...........2.298% (2)
J1..........1.149% (1)
H...........1.149% (1)

[Mingle]

I get the feeling if there's any serious Sandzak dna testing, it'll just get mixed with the Bosniak results, unlike the Serb dna projects which often separate Y dna and autosomal results based on region, Bosniaks just mix them all together, and they take in groups which are completely unrelated to Bosnia which makes it even harder to make an accurate estimation. Example, this line from the Bosniak dna project of FTDNA.


The Bosniak DNA project has launched with the aim of identifying the genetic image and origin of Bosniaks in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Sandzak and other countries throughout the Balkans and diaspora. Everyone who identifies as a Bosniak, as well as those who declare themselves as Gorans, Torbesh and other Muslim folk living among the Bosniaks is welcome to the group.

There should be an entirely separate Sandzak dna project, they are ethnically unique in the Balkans.

Agree.

Isn't the Serbian DNA Project testing Sanjak Muslims? If they are, then we can just take the results of the Bosniak DNA project with a grain of salt and look at the Serbian one for the proper results.

[Marmara]

He doesn't look like a Balkan Turk. More like an Arab.

There is no logic to claim they are Turkish admixed if they don't speak Turkish like the Turkish minority of Serbia or Kosovo.

[Ayetooey]

Agree.

Isn't the Serbian DNA Project testing Sanjak Muslims? If they are, then we can just take the results of the Bosniak DNA project with a grain of salt and look at the Serbian one for the proper results.

I am not sure, Privislav or Tschaikisten would know more about that, I am not joining the project till I get my subclade tested.

[Mingle]

This is Y dna samples previously shared by user Morlak.

E1b1b.....71.264% (62)
R1b........6.896% (6)
I1..........4.597% (4)
I2..........3.448% (3)
R1a........3.448% (3)
J2a.........3.448% (3)
J2b.........2.298% (2)
C...........2.298% (2)
J1..........1.149% (1)
H...........1.149% (1)

He made a mistake when posting those results. (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?242929-Genetics-of-Bosniaks-from-Sandzak&p=5113129&viewfull=1#post5113129) These are the actual results:



189 samples
E1b1b....41%(78)
R1b.......16%(32)
I2..........12% (24)
J2b.........10% (19)
I1............5% (10)
J2a.........5% (10)
R1a.........2%(5)
G2a.........2%(5)
T.............1%(2)
C..............1%(2)
H.............0.5%(1)
J1.............0.5%(1)

Some mod needs to edit the OP in that thread of his.

[Ayetooey]

He doesn't look like a Balkan Turk. More like an Arab.

There is no logic to claim they are Turkish admixed if they don't speak Turkish like the Turkish minority of Serbia or Kosovo.

There's historical records showing that Turks settled in Sandzak along with Slavic speakers and assimilated, and there's Turkish HG's found in Sandzak that are not found in neighbouring populaces. No one has claimed this man looks Turkish btw, we all agree he looks Palestinian or at the least some sort of Levantine Arab, Ottomans also settled Arabs and Caucasians into Sandzak, not just Turks.

[Pribislav]

I've noticed people from North-West Sandzak look more Slavic, I read that most of them are genuine Muslim Serbs by descent, an example of one.

http://users.minmedia.me/media/519d000557bd3.jpg

Yes, there visible different than eastern/southeastern Sandžaklis.

In Sandžak (which is partly in Montenegro) 2/3 of Sanžaklis live in eastern Sanžak, they are predominantly Ghegs with Tukish, Levantine and Serbian influence.
Only 1/3 of Sandžaklis live in western Sanžak and they mostly of Serbian origin.

Eastern Sandžak (roughly)
Novi Pazar, Serbia - 66 5000 (Muslims 87%)
Tutin, Serbia - 8400 (Muslims 90%)
Rožaje, Montenegro - 7600 (Muslims 91%)
Bijelo Polje, Montenegro - 15 400 (Muslims 36%)
Berane, Montenegro - 34 000 (Muslims 23%)
Plav, Montenegro - 3600 (Muslims 87%)
Gusinje, Montenegro - 4000 (Muslims 92%)
Sjenica, Serbia - 14 000 (Muslims 83%)

Western Sandžak (roughly)
Nova Varoš, Serbia - 8800 (Muslims 15%)
Priboj, Serbia - 14 900 (Muslims 23%)
Prijepolje, Serbia - 13 300 (Muslims 34%)
Pljevlja, Montenegro - 30 700 (Muslims 13%)

This is without souronding villages, only cities/towns.

[Marmara]

There's historical records showing that Turks settled in Sandzak along with Slavic speakers and assimilated, and there's Turkish HG's found in Sandzak that are not found in neighbouring populaces. No one has claimed this man looks Turkish btw, we all agree he looks Palestinian or at the least some sort of Levantine Arab, Ottomans also settled Arabs and Caucasians into Sandzak, not just Turks.

Turks are settled all over Balkans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_the_Balkans

Countries they live in usually make propaganda that they are assimilated converts.

[Zroota]

Extremely atypical Bosnian.

Looks Assyroid, and he's a bit exotic for that too.

[Mortimer]

He does look Assyroid or Armenoid maybe. Could be jewish too.

[Pribislav]

bump

[Pribislav]

He does look Assyroid or Armenoid maybe. Could be jewish too.

You looks whiter than him.

[CommonSense]

Assyroid. Honestly, his look is not rare among them at all. I spent the last few days in Prague and on the bus that took us there and back there were a couple of Sandzak muslim women and they all looked West Asian. It's so funny when they claim that we are mixed with Turks while they are pure Bosniak Illyrians xD

[Pribislav]

Assyroid. Honestly, his look is not rare among them at all. I spent the last few days in Prague and on the bus that took us there and back there were a couple of Sandzak muslim women and they all looked West Asian. It's so funny when they claim that we are mixed with Turks while they are pure Bosniak Illyrians xD

When I was in Novi Pazar I have seen many Turkish looking people.
Before my visit to Novi Pazar I imagine them as Montenegrins. They looks different from Montenegrins, and they are pretty short on average. Muslims from Novi Pazar looks mostly like Gheg Albanians, on the second place are Turkish looking people.

[Papastratosels26]

Atypical

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