Are they Portuguese or Greek?

[Deneb]

https://i.ibb.co/yW6qyNr/41.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/FY3PGfL/42.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Dna8]

Greek.

Nice thread.

[Blondie]

greek

[Aspar]

They lack West Asian features...
I will go with Portuguese.

[Rouxinol]

In my opinion they look too western-shifted to be Greek but maybe that's the trick.

[Catarinense1998]

Greek.

[Dna8]

It was a coin flip for me.

[Zroota]

Portuguese.

There's just something.

[Dna8]

Portuguese.

There's just something.

For me the Portuegesisms of aesthetic are related to a degree of Northern Shift, over Med Alpinid faces..

[Dna8]

I think they're actually Portuguese now..

[Voskos]

Portuguese.

[IrisSelene]

This is so hard... I would say Portuguese because there's something about them that I find similar in Spanish guys since I live here but at the same time there's something that says Greek lol

[Ülev]

Hellenic people

[Marmara]

Portuguese

[NicodemoAS]

Portuguese

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Greeks

Why dont you post group pictures?

[Queen B]

I suposse they are Portuguese, but the 2nd one, could be very easily be Greek

[Deneb]

Greeks

Why dont you post group pictures?

If I post all the team, this game would be very easy. Let's try...



https://i.ibb.co/tDjMpy3/Andrezinho-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/2MPtRYY/Duarte-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/NF0N0Kt/Filipe-Soares-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/chsn1KK/Gois-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/Cz8W6BS/Gon-alo-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/8dXcBFC/chabyyyy.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/BPRQTm9/Igor.jpg (https://ibb.co/ZJCFc30)
https://i.ibb.co/vYdCXzr/Joao-Patrao-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/3N9nchY/Joao-Pedro-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/Wcxwsc9/Kiko-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/NKzJPTd/Miguel-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/LzpmVPb/Queiros-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)




…

[PT Tagus]

I'd say Greek.

[Sikeliot]

Portuguese. But it could go either way.

Portuguese to me often pass better in Greece for whichever reason than in South Italy/Sicily so I DO actually struggle distinguishing some Portuguese from Greeks.

[Deneb]

I'd say Greek.

What about their mates?

[Dna8]

Portuguese for ethnos of aesthetics featured, IMO.

[Dna8]

This two phase aesthetic deployment was novel :thumb001:

[PT Tagus]

What about their mates?

Some guys look Portuguese.

I'd say Portuguese now. :rofl:

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Portuguese for ethnos of aesthetics featured, IMO.

Many are obviously foreigners, including one bolivian/peruvian detected.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Some pardos, some latinos and portugueses kkk

[Deneb]

Many are obviously foreigners, including one bolivian/peruvian detected.

All of them are Portuguese, or at least were born in Portugal.

[Sikeliot]

For me the Portuegesisms of aesthetic are related to a degree of Northern Shift, over Med Alpinid faces..

Portuguese vs Greek is a difference usually of higher Atlantid and lower Dinarid.

Greeks aren't much less "northern" than the Portuguese but it's more Slavic like I guess.

[Rouxinol]

Well, I was leaning towards Portuguese since the first two pics, turns out I was right.

But this one looks half-chink or something equally mongoloid:

https://i.ibb.co/NF0N0Kt/Filipe-Soares-400x400.jpg

[Tenma de Pegasus]

All of them are Portuguese, or at least were born in Portugal.

Born in Portugal? Oh big thing

[Cernunnos]

They are Portuguese....

[Joso]

portuguese

[Newsboy]

This was a difficult one, until Artabro posted the whole team. Then it became apparent to me that they're Portuguese.


They lack West Asian features...
I will go with Portuguese.

Not sure if you're being serious, but most ethnic Greeks lack West Asian features as well. It's generally very easy to distinguish Levantines, Iraqis, Iranians, Caucasians (Caucasus), and even many Turks from Greeks.

[Deneb]

This was a difficult one, until Artabro posted the whole team. Then it became apparent to me that they're Portuguese.



Not sure if you're being serious, but most ethnic Greeks lack West Asian features as well. It's generally very easy to distinguish Levantines, Iraqis, Iranians, Caucasians (Caucasus), and even many Turks from Greeks.

Yeah, they are PORTUGUESE

[Morena]

I am late to the party, but two of the guys in the team are either foreign or have a pseudo foreign look to them.

[Joso]

Yeah, they are PORTUGUESE

:thumb001:

[Rgvgjhvv]

They can pass as Greek, especially the second guy

[Aspar]

This was a difficult one, until Artabro posted the whole team. Then it became apparent to me that they're Portuguese.



Not sure if you're being serious, but most ethnic Greeks lack West Asian features as well. It's generally very easy to distinguish Levantines, Iraqis, Iranians, Caucasians (Caucasus), and even many Turks from Greeks.

I am not saying that Greeks ae full blown West Asians, of course not.
And they are closer phenotypically to Portuguese than to most West Asians imo.
But they still have some West Asian features that Iberians lack.

[Hellenas]

Cromagnoids(square angular faces, deep set eyes)

https://i.ibb.co/yW6qyNr/41.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/FY3PGfL/42.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/tDjMpy3/Andrezinho-400x400.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/NF0N0Kt/Filipe-Soares-400x400.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Cz8W6BS/Gon-alo-400x400.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/LzpmVPb/Queiros-400x400.jpg

Mediterraneans

https://i.ibb.co/BPRQTm9/Igor.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/8dXcBFC/chabyyyy.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/NKzJPTd/Miguel-400x400.jpg

Med-Berid

https://i.ibb.co/2MPtRYY/Duarte-400x400.jpg

Med-Alpine

https://i.ibb.co/Wcxwsc9/Kiko-400x400.jpg

Looks Saharid, perhaps just very tanned

https://i.ibb.co/vYdCXzr/Joao-Patrao-400x400.jpg

Saharid influenced?

https://i.ibb.co/3N9nchY/Joao-Pedro-400x400.jpg

Saharid

https://i.ibb.co/chsn1KK/Gois-400x400.jpg


THEY ARE PORTUGUESE

[Sebastianus Rex]

Looks Saharid, perhaps just very tanned

https://i.ibb.co/vYdCXzr/Joao-Patrao-400x400.jpg

Saharid influenced?

https://i.ibb.co/3N9nchY/Joao-Pedro-400x400.jpg

Saharid

https://i.ibb.co/chsn1KK/Gois-400x400.jpg


THEY ARE PORTUGUESE

Saharids don't look like that, that is a negroid influenced type, like most north africans.

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/benatia.jpg



First guy is a dinarcized gracile-med.

Second guy is coarse med.

Third guy is Dinaro-Med or Littorid.

[Hellenas]

Saharids don't look like that, that is a negroid influenced type, like most north africans.

https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/benatia.jpg



First guy is a dinarcized gracile-med.

Second guy is coarse med.

Third guy is Dinaro-Med or Littorid.

Same race
https://i.ibb.co/chsn1KK/Gois-400x400.jpg
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/benatia.jpg

Non-Europeans

Very brown and it looks natural
https://i.ibb.co/vYdCXzr/Joao-Patrao-400x400.jpg

Looks mixed with Saharids
https://i.ibb.co/3N9nchY/Joao-Pedro-400x400.jpg

https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/m/marktwain/103749/marktwain1.jpg

[Rouxinol]

^The narrow-faced guy looks (dark) Portuguese, the other two, in all honesty, must be gypsy.

[Dorian]

This one looks what I call archaic-apish
https://i.ibb.co/3N9nchY/Joao-Pedro-400x400.jpg

Similar to these:
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTY0NzAzMTEyOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNjYwMzYwNg@@._ V1_.jpg
https://s.nbst.gr/files/1/2013/01/21/zaradoukas.thumbnail.jpg
https://fthisimage.azureedge.net/userfiles/articles/legacy/65f2d7ee-f1bc-4ecc-aa01-ea90ce207b02.jpg?h=573&scale=both&bgcolor=151515&mode=pad
https://i.postimg.cc/jjLLhy4P/xilourisgiannis.jpg
[url=https://postimages.org/]https://i.postimg.cc/BQGR0842/Screenshot-1.jpg

[JMack]

This one looks what I call archaic-apish


He's just ugly, looks nothing like a Saharid.

Saharids always look very SSA admixed, this guy does not look SSA influenced but CM.

[Rouxinol]

He's just ugly, looks nothing like a Saharid.

Saharids always look very SSA admixed, this guy does not look SSA influenced but CM.

Right, there's nothing SSA about him. In my opinion he could pass almost as typical in Iran though. I've noticed that Portuguese gypsies either look like Iranids or Veddoid Indians or mixes of both. The more Veddoid the more disgusting they are.

[Joso]

This one looks what I call archaic-apish
https://i.ibb.co/3N9nchY/Joao-Pedro-400x400.jpg

...

He looks gracile-med+brunn, looks like a southern Italian+Irish mix

[Rouxinol]

He looks gracile-med+brunn, looks like a southern Italian+Irish mix

No one agrees he looks like a light-eyed Iranid?

[Joso]

No one agrees he looks like a light-eyed Iranid?

I think he could pass as Irano-Afghan but he looks more like a brunn with med influence to me, he resembles this brunn guy a bit:

http://i25.tinypic.com/f3sw9x.jpg

[Dorian]

I didn't say anything about saharid,well some kind of archaic CM like brunn could explain it.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

https://cdn-images.rtp.pt/icm/noticias/images/8e/8ec5ec54ed489bd79dd84bcd0b439a6e?620&rect=0,121,1838,1008&w=860


From all the players posted, João Pedro is actually the one from my perception that looks stereotypically Greek, rather than Portuguese.

[Radiy]

Portuguese.

[Dorian]

From all the players posted, João Pedro is actually the one from my perception that looks stereotypically Greek, rather than Portuguese.

No,none looks Greek.
It was very obvious from the 1st photo I saw while I was scrolling,seems like people's perceptions are influenced by some stereotypes in these kind of forums.

[Hellenas]

He's just ugly, looks nothing like a Saharid.

With this dark skin color and this facial features he still looks much North African influenced.


Saharids always look very SSA admixed, this guy does not look SSA influenced but CM.

SAHARID (South-Mediterranean)

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/gl-saharid.jpg
Saharid (after Lundman)

A tall, gracile and high-skulled Mediterranid found in the southern Iberian Peninsula and North Africa.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/gloss2.htm#Saharid

Fonseca Cardoso "Anthropologia Portuguesa"

"The study also refers to a fourth type, a dark-pigmented dolichocephal that corresponds to the Berber(Saharid-Cromanoid) type from Africa"

"Στη μελέτη γίνεται αναφορά και σε έναν τέταρτο τύπο, σκουρόχρωμο δολιχοκέφαλο που αντιστοιχεί στον Βερβερικό (Σαχάριο-Κρομανοειδή) τύπο εξ Αφρικής"

http://fyletika.blogspot.com/2018/08/blog-post_8.html

"In the country there is a small percentage of brachycephal Alpines as well as a one-digit percentage of African phenotypes." In short, the Portuguese are Cromagnoids, Mediterraneans, Alpines and secondarily Saharids "

"Στη χώρα υπάρχει ένα μικρό ποσοστό βραχυκέφαλων Αλπικών, όπως και μονοψήφιο ποσοστό Αφρικανικών φαινοτύπων. Με λίγα λόγια οι Πορτογάλοι είναι Κρομανοειδείς, Μεσογειακοί, Αλπικοί και δευτερευόντως Σαχάριοι"

http://fyletika.blogspot.com/2018/02/blog-post_1.html

"and a few African elements that we find in the south"

"και λίγα Αφρικανικά, που τα βρίσκουμε στο νότο"

http://fyletika.blogspot.com/2017/07/blog-post_22.html

"Some North Africans"

"κάποιοι Βορειοαφρικανοί"

http://fyletika.blogspot.com/2017/01/blog-post_20.html

"Finally, there are some of the Berberid and Saharid types in the south of the country." In conclusion, in Portugal, there are Cromanoids in an overwhelming majority, with some Mediterraneans and with one-digit percentages followed by the Nordics, Saharids and Alpines."

"Τέλος, εντοπίζονται κάποιοι του Βερβερικού και Σαχάριου τύπου στα νότια της χώρας. Συμπερασματικά, στην Πορτογαλία υπάρχουν Κρομανοειδείς σε συντριπτική πλειοψηφία, με κάποιους Μεσογειακούς και με μονοψήφια ποσοστά έπονται Νορδικοί, Σαχάριοι και Αλπικοί."

http://fyletika.blogspot.com/2015/03/blog-post_21.html

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-E4IiO1S83uA/UnUgy_UpwuI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/74izWU4TfXk/s320/Rouwaida+Mahrouki.jpg
Saharid North African

"North Africans react when they consider them black or with significant Negroid blending"

"οι Βορειοαφρικανοί αντιδρούν όταν τους θεωρούν μαύρους ή με σημαντική νέγρικη ανάμειξη"

https://fyletika.blogspot.com/2013/11/blog-post_14.html


I don't see much SSA in the phenotype of most North Africans, they are right to react when they called negroids.

https://i.imgur.com/qeq7efR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YjAdwkX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/awgxuj5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/h2g3D0d.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uaNWDal.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TDrxHvI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jJ3V8HF.jpg


Greek population has West Asian influence, Iberians have North African. No big deal!

[KingOf]

No,none looks Greek.
It was very obvious from the 1st photo I saw while I was scrolling,seems like people's perceptions are influenced by some stereotypes in these kind of forums.

i agree Iberian/Greek similarity on a group level is overrated here
only Italians can be mistaken as Greeks imo as a group
i would place Iberians behind Italians with other South Balkanites

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Greek population has West Asian influence, Iberians have North African. No big deal!

Greeks are genetically closer to MENAs (yes, North Africans included as well) and it is not marginally in comparison with Iberians. North African genomes in Iberia range from 1% to 10% depending on the individual and region whereas you will struggle to find a Greek that doesn't have a minimum of 40% of genetic affinity with Levantines. From head I can think of Greeks that look metrically like João Pedro, be it Zaradoukas, Anastasios Bakasetas, Karagounis or even this Greek TA member who was half-German that I can't remember the name now. That type of convex nose, short forehead and eye set that resembles Amernoids, Levantines and so on that gives a West Asian vibe is more commonly found in Greece than in Portugal.

[Damião de Góis]

Don't think this guy is saharid.

https://www.footballdatabase.eu/images/photos/players/a_175/175042.jpg

[Hellenas]

Greeks are genetically closer to MENAs (yes, North Africans included as well) and it is not marginally in comparison with Iberians. North African genomes in Iberia range from 1% to 10% depending on the individual and region whereas you will struggle to find a Greek that doesn't have a minimum of 40% of genetic affinity with Levantines. From head I can think of Greeks that look metrically like João Pedro, be it Zaradoukas, Anastasios Bakasetas, Karagounis or even this Greek TA member who was half-German that I can't remember the name now. That type of convex nose, short forehead and eye set that resembles Kavkazians, Levantines and so on that gives a West Asian vibe is more commonly found in Greece than in Portugal.

Nice joke, I am sure your good in them. Greeks closer to MENA and Levantines, lol, keep dreaming, you can sell these jokes to some Nordicist Nazis or to some anti-orthodox westerners, I am sure about that. Greeks have already blew up such claims one million times, no need repeating and no need answering to nonsense.

Blood of North Africans run in your Iberian veins, blood of West Asians run in ours, no big deal!

[Sikeliot]

Greeks are genetically closer to MENAs (yes, North Africans included as well) and it is not marginally in comparison with Iberians. North African genomes in Iberia range from 1% to 10% depending on the individual and region whereas you will struggle to find a Greek that doesn't have a minimum of 40% of genetic affinity with Levantines. From head I can think of Greeks that look metrically like João Pedro, be it Zaradoukas, Anastasios Bakasetas, Karagounis or even this Greek TA member who was half-German that I can't remember the name now. That type of convex nose, short forehead and eye set that resembles Amernoids, Levantines and so on that gives a West Asian vibe is more commonly found in Greece than in Portugal.

Greeks don't have Afroasiatic (Levant/Arabian/North African) ancestry, but they do have much higher Iranian Neolithic and Caucasus input than Iberians have.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Nice joke, I am sure your good in them. Greeks closer to MENA and Levantines, lol, keep dreaming, you can sell these jokes to some Nordicist Nazis or to some anti-orthodox westerners, I am sure about that. Greeks have already blew up such claims one million times, no need repeating and no need answering to nonsense.

Blood of North Africans run in your Iberian veins, blood of West Asians run in ours, no big deal!

It is not a joke though but genetics.

[Dorian]

The so called levantine component is still much older in Europe than the recent North-African one ,try again .

[Dorian]

Plus finding "similar" individuals from Greeks is not a proof of anything,I can start searching for Portuguese that resemble Kasidiaris(more-likely to happen there) and say "He looks Portuguese".
He looks what he is ,he is what he is ,end of story.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Greeks don't have Afroasiatic (Levant/Arabian/North African) ancestry, but they do have much higher Iranian Neolithic and Caucasus input than Iberians have.

You are subscribing to what I have just said. Due to common heritage Greeks have more genetic affinity with Middle-Easterners and North Africans than we do even if we have small percentage of North African genomes. North Africans ain't just 100% "North African" in terms of components. Phenotypes on a broad scale correlate with genomes, so it is not mischievousness to say that Greece would overlap better. If you mould Greek samples on PCA maps and scale approximation by removing Albanian samples and Southern Slavs like Macedonians and Bulgarians then Greek samples will be closer to West Asians than to the rest of Europe. This is not an attack on Greeks, just the way things are.

[Hellenas]

It is not a joke though but genetics.

Lol! Keep joking!

Portugal: European 89.7% Middle Eastern 9.5%, Northeast African 0.8%, Sub-Saharan African, South Asian, East Asian, North Asian, Native American 0.0%.

Greek(full Greek only): European 87.6%, Middle Eastern 12.4%. Sub-Saharan African, Northeast African, South Asian, East Asian, North Asian, Native American 0.0%.

DNA Tribes® SNP Admixture Results by Population
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2012-08-01.pdf


According to the genetic site eupedia.com:

Northern Greeks(Thrace & Macedonia) : 93,7 % European
Central Greeks(Epirus & Thessaly) : 92,2 % European
Southern Greeks(Sterea Hellas & Peloponnese) : 93,9 % European
Eastern Greeks(Aegean islands & Ionia) : 91,7% European
Cretan Greeks(Crete) : 91,1 % European

All Greeks : 93,4 % European

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t994640-13/?postcount=126#post11562743
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/printthread.php?t=26644&pp=25&page=1

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

The so called levantine component is still much older in Europe than the recent North-African one ,try again .

True but it doesn't make it more European. It peaks among Levantines, not Greeks.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Plus finding "similar" individuals from Greeks is not a proof of anything,I can start searching for Portuguese that resemble Kasidiaris(more-likely to happen there) and say "He looks Portuguese".
He looks what he is ,he is what he is ,end of story.

Kasidiaris types isn't that uncommon in Greece apparently. I made a thread recently about AEK fans that were in Lisbon and I saw a minority that didn't look that much different. The explanation for it was that "AEK fans are Anatolian Greeks", lol.

[Dorian]

True but it doesn't make it more European. It peaks among Levantines, not Greeks.

True like the genetic affinity thing you said above about removing these components but the correlation of genome&phenotypes is half-truth half-diversion since modern menas have different components making them darker-more armenoid/arabid etc while original ones were probably like the average Cypriot(descending from Eteocypriots) (not talking about a minority of dark hellenized phoenician/arabid phenotypes in Cyprus).
+The fact that Greeks have components making them even lighter "Cypriots"

[Dorian]

Kasidiaris types isn't that uncommon in Greece apparently. I made a thread recently about AEK fans that were in Lisbon and I saw a minority that didn't look that much different. The explanation for it was that "AEK fans are Anatolian Greeks", lol.

Well since you tried to relate the above guy with Greeks,I can't trust your perception, brain is a weird thing creating biases(simply said :one sees what he wants to see).

[Livin]

Greeks are genetically closer to MENAs (yes, North Africans included as well) and it is not marginally in comparison with Iberians. North African genomes in Iberia range from 1% to 10% depending on the individual and region whereas you will struggle to find a Greek that doesn't have a minimum of 40% of genetic affinity with Levantines. From head I can think of Greeks that look metrically like João Pedro, be it Zaradoukas, Anastasios Bakasetas, Karagounis or even this Greek TA member who was half-German that I can't remember the name now. That type of convex nose, short forehead and eye set that resembles Amernoids, Levantines and so on that gives a West Asian vibe is more commonly found in Greece than in Portugal.

Short forerhead is a med trait actually xd.Having a sloping forerhead like me for example is a progress of dinarization.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

True like the genetic affinity thing you said above about removing these components but the correlation of genome&phenotypes is half-truth half-diversion since modern menas have different components making them darker-more armenoid/arabid etc while original ones were probably like the average Cypriot(descending from Eteocypriots) (not talking about a minority of dark hellenized phoenician/arabid phenotypes in Cyprus).
+The fact that Greeks have components making them even lighter "Cypriots"

More reason you give to me then. If you mould Iberian samples by removing Central European and South Eastern samples, Iberians will still have more proximity with North European samples than with MENAs. If Iberians have more indigenous European components then according to your logic there's no point in trying to say that guys like Kasidiraris are more common in here, genetics ain't supporting that theory.

[Livin]

Kasidiaris types isn't that uncommon in Greece apparently. I made a thread recently about AEK fans that were in Lisbon and I saw a minority that didn't look that much different. The explanation for it was that "AEK fans are Anatolian Greeks", lol.

Kasidiaris btw is a really atypical face for every greek ethnic group and he looks almost north african.Btw i have never seen any greek looking close to him.I am talking about facial features not skin colour etc.

[Hellenas]

Kasidiaris types isn't that uncommon in Greece apparently. I made a thread recently about AEK fans that were in Lisbon and I saw a minority that didn't look that much different. The explanation for it was that "AEK fans are Anatolian Greeks", lol.

Dream on, no Anthropologist mention any Saharid types in Greece like in south Iberia, except one Greek Anthropologist who refers some Saharid influences in the very south of Crete. And that's how it goes, you are closer to North Africa, we are closer to West Asia. Portugal and Iberian has North Africanoids, in Greece we have West Asian Armenoids and Iranoids.

[Dorian]

More reason you give to me then. If you mould Iberian samples by removing Central European and South Eastern samples, Iberians will still have more proximity with North European samples than with MENAs. If Iberians have more indigenous European components then according to your logic there's no point in trying to say that guys like Kasidiraris are more common in here, genetics ain't supporting that theory.

None denies what you just said but the difference is that Greeks have the pre-phoenician/arab levantine component of Cyprus ,Cypriots just have this too and Iberians the North-African one and not an ancient berber one for example which would be different so they are more likely to have the extremes of phenotypes of modern North Africans than Greeks have of the extremes of modern Levantines.

[Livin]

Kasidiaris types isn't that uncommon in Greece apparently. I made a thread recently about AEK fans that were in Lisbon and I saw a minority that didn't look that much different. The explanation for it was that "AEK fans are Anatolian Greeks", lol.

This is the most retarted thing they told you xd.Anatolian Greeks first of all genetically they are closer to aegean islanders.Their looks are between med and west asia(armenoid) nothing to do with Kasidiaris face who looks like an algerian/Morrocan refugee xdd :rofl_002::rofl_002::rofl_002:

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Dream on, no Anthropologist mention any Saharid types in Greeks like in south Iberia, except one Greek Anthropologist who refers some Saharid influences in the very south of Crete. Portugal and Iberian has North Africanoids, in Greece we have Armenoids and Iranoids.

I don't really care much about outdated anthropology as you might have noticed. Nowadays we have genetics. Was any of my remarks regarding genetics of Iberians and Greeks so far untrue? Just check population approximation levels on any Gedmatch project and you will see the difference. On an individual level genetics do not necessarily have to correlate with phenotype but on a broad scale when we are talking about entire regions and nations, it does correlate.

[Livin]

I don't really care much about outdated anthropology as you might have noticed. Nowadays we have genetics. Was any of my remarks regarding genetics of Iberians and Greeks so far untrue? Just check population approximation levels on any Gedmatch project and you will see the difference. On an individual level genetics do not necessarily have to correlate with phenotype but on a broad scale when we are talking about entire regions and nations, it does correlate.

I agree that Portugal and Spain are by far more european states from genetics kind of view ,but you guys have some ssa.Not much but still.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

None denies what you just said but the difference is that Greeks have the pre-phoenician/arab levantine component of Cyprus ,Cypriots just have this too and Iberians the North-African one and not an ancient berber one for example which would be different so they are more likely to have the extremes of phenotypes of modern North Africans than Greeks have of the extremes of modern Levantines.

Define "Ancient Berber" and explain how they differed significantly from the Berbers that invaded the Iberian Peninsula. We use Iberomaurussian samples to analyse the percentage of North-African genomes among Iberians, how more ancient does it have to be?

[Hellenas]

I don't really care much about outdated anthropology as you might have noticed.

No racialist either really care about nonsensical claims of supposed "outdated anthropology" or about your own claims.


Nowadays we have genetics. Was any of my remarks regarding genetics of Iberians and Greeks so far untrue? Just check population approximation levels on any Gedmatch project and you will see the difference. On an individual level genetics do not necessarily have to correlate with phenotype but on a broad scale when we are talking about entire regions and nations, it does correlate.

I already proved you wrong and biased.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I agree that Portugal and Spain are by far more european states from genetics kind of view ,but you guys have some ssa.Not much but still.

It ranges from nearly 0% to 3% depending on the individual. Does it have a significant impact in terms of phenotypes? If it did then half of Iberia would be nordic looking having in mind that it isn't uncommon for Iberians to have a range of 30% to 40% of so called northwestern and northeastern genomes, but it doesn't work like that.

[Dorian]

Define "Ancient Berber" and explain how they differed significantly from the Berbers that invaded the Iberian Peninsula. We use Iberomaurussian samples to analyse the percentage of North-African genomes among Iberians, how more ancient does it have to be?

I'm not immersed in genetics of others but If I'm wrong on something you could correct me .
Maybe as ancient as the levantine in European mediterranean?It makes sense that as there's difference between ancient levantines and modern ones,the same is going to apply to Berbers.

[Livin]

It ranges from nearly 0% to 3% depending on the individual. Does it have a significant impact in terms of phenotypes? If it did then half of Iberia would be nordic looking having in mind that it isn't uncommon for Iberians to have a range of 30% to 40% of so called northwestern and northeastern genomes, but it doesn't work like that.

I think its more than 3% if i am not mistaken.Or it must be in south spain areas,but anyways.I dont care either about looks xd.I am a brown person!So,i am the last in here whos gonna pretend the aryan :D

[Sebastianus Rex]

Same race
https://i.ibb.co/chsn1KK/Gois-400x400.jpg
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/benatia.jpg

Non-Europeans

Very brown and it looks natural
https://i.ibb.co/vYdCXzr/Joao-Patrao-400x400.jpg

Looks mixed with Saharids
https://i.ibb.co/3N9nchY/Joao-Pedro-400x400.jpg

https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/m/marktwain/103749/marktwain1.jpg

1st guy is from Madeira and very atypical and dark (possibly gypsy), but that's not saharid. More like a middle-eastern phenotype (looks like some of those guys Sikeliot often posts).

https://diarioatual.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/13-Jo%C3%A3o-Go%C3%ADs-e1422379756366.jpg


2nd guy is a dinarcized gracile-med:
https://www.bdfutbol.com/i/j/70851.jpg

The other is coarse med (paleo-sardinian influenced).

None of these guys look like Saharids, if they did I would have no problem admiting it. For example, a Saharid looking Portuguese is this guy (he is from the North btw):

https://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/14/2018/324x324/101832.jpg

https://www.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/558e88250cf22ae409f54ef9/600.558e88250cf22ae409f54ef9.jpg

https://cdn.record.pt/images/2013-07/img_920x518$2013_07_23_15_41_00_806736.jpg

[Dorian]

I agree that Portugal and Spain are by far more european states from genetics kind of view ,but you guys have some ssa.Not much but still.

There's nothing more "european"bro ,the fact that some components exist &peak in other modern non-"european"populations doesn't mean much,I can call theirs(other europeans in general) "neolithic anatolian" "central asian" "siberian" or something ,the only reason that it doesn't happen is that there doesn't exist such a pure population in their ancestral places.

[Livin]

There's nothing more "european"bro ,the fact that some components exist &peak in other modern non-"european"populations doesn't mean much,I can call theirs(other europeans in general) "neolithic anatolian" "central asian" "siberian" or something ,the only reason that it doesn't happen is that there doesn't exist such a pure population in their ancestral places.

Well,if we look it this way,then no1 in EU is actually white-caucasoid xd.I was reffering that iberians have more steppe admixture and less west asian/east med than Greeks.But anyway who cares.

[Sikeliot]

You are subscribing to what I have just said. Due to common heritage Greeks have more genetic affinity with Middle-Easterners and North Africans than we do even if we have small percentage of North African genomes. North Africans ain't just 100% "North African" in terms of components. Phenotypes on a broad scale correlate with genomes, so it is not mischievousness to say that Greece would overlap better. If you mould Greek samples on PCA maps and scale approximation by removing Albanian samples and Southern Slavs like Macedonians and Bulgarians then Greek samples will be closer to West Asians than to the rest of Europe. This is not an attack on Greeks, just the way things are.


You would have to remove a lot of European populations to make Greeks look West Asian. You'd have to remove their Balkan neighbors, as well as central and southern Italians, and you'd have to take out Sicilians and Maltese who actually plot closer to West Asia than do Greeks.

[Livin]

You would have to remove a lot of European populations to make Greeks look West Asian. You'd have to remove their Balkan neighbors, as well as central and southern Italians, and you'd have to take out Sicilians and Maltese who actually plot closer to West Asia than do Greeks.

If you put out Pontic and cappadocian greeks.Then the only greek group with high west asia admixture are cretans,maniots, islanders and anatolian greeks.Personally i dont think mainlanders got high west asia.Also Cretans the majority have west asian lineages(Haplogroup).

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

I'm not immersed in genetics of others but If I'm wrong on something you could correct me .
Maybe as ancient as the levantine in European mediterranean?It makes sense that as there's difference between ancient levantines and modern ones,the same is going to apply to Berbers.

Iberomaurussians samples are from the upper paleolithic. Modern Berbers haven't changed that drastically, even during that period they had already a significant portion of sub saharan genomes, being E1b1b the most common haplogroup as it still is in the present.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

You would have to remove a lot of European populations to make Greeks look West Asian. You'd have to remove their Balkan neighbors, as well as central and southern Italians, and you'd have to take out Sicilians and Maltese who actually plot closer to West Asia than do Greeks.

Not if you do the average. If you divide the entire country by regions as you usually do, then concerning some regions like Thessaloniki you would have to remove more Balkan nations indeed. Genetically Greece is a lot more heterogeneous than Portugal which is the most homogeneous nation in Europe genetically, the opposite.

You don't get this substantial differences among Portuguese:

Thessalonian

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 5.94
2 Greek 7.05
3 Bulgarian 7.49
4 Romanian 8.89
5 Central_Greek 10.94
6 Italian_Abruzzo 11.11
7 Tuscan 11.19
8 Serbian 11.51
9 Ashkenazi 11.6
10 East_Sicilian 12.29
11 West_Sicilian 12.79
12 North_Italian 14.11
13 South_Italian 14.49
14 Moldavian 16.38
15 Italian_Jewish 18.38
16 Croatian 18.82
17 Hungarian 18.9
18 Austrian 19.11
19 Sephardic_Jewish 19.59
20 Algerian_Jewish 19.68

Crete

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 4.8
2 Ashkenazi 4.99
3 Central_Greek 5.04
4 South_Italian 6.27
5 Italian_Abruzzo 7.48
6 Italian_Jewish 7.58
7 West_Sicilian 8.8
8 Greek_Thessaly 9.41
9 Sephardic_Jewish 9.44
10 Algerian_Jewish 10.05
11 Greek 10.88
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.5
13 Tuscan 12.52
14 Tunisian_Jewish 12.9
15 Cyprian 14.25
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.98
17 Bulgarian 17.38
18 Syrian 17.51
19 Turkish 18.14
20 North_Italian 18.81

[Sikeliot]

Not if you do the average. If you divide the entire country by regions as you usually do, then concerning some regions like Thessaloniki you would have to remove more Balkan nations indeed. Genetically Greece is a lot more heterogeneous than Portugal which is the most homogeneous nation in Europe genetically, the opposite.

You don't get this substantial differences among Portuguese:

Thessalonian

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 5.94
2 Greek 7.05
3 Bulgarian 7.49
4 Romanian 8.89
5 Central_Greek 10.94
6 Italian_Abruzzo 11.11
7 Tuscan 11.19
8 Serbian 11.51
9 Ashkenazi 11.6
10 East_Sicilian 12.29
11 West_Sicilian 12.79
12 North_Italian 14.11
13 South_Italian 14.49
14 Moldavian 16.38
15 Italian_Jewish 18.38
16 Croatian 18.82
17 Hungarian 18.9
18 Austrian 19.11
19 Sephardic_Jewish 19.59
20 Algerian_Jewish 19.68

Crete

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_Sicilian 4.8
2 Ashkenazi 4.99
3 Central_Greek 5.04
4 South_Italian 6.27
5 Italian_Abruzzo 7.48
6 Italian_Jewish 7.58
7 West_Sicilian 8.8
8 Greek_Thessaly 9.41
9 Sephardic_Jewish 9.44
10 Algerian_Jewish 10.05
11 Greek 10.88
12 Libyan_Jewish 12.5
13 Tuscan 12.52
14 Tunisian_Jewish 12.9
15 Cyprian 14.25
16 Lebanese_Muslim 16.98
17 Bulgarian 17.38
18 Syrian 17.51
19 Turkish 18.14
20 North_Italian 18.81


You proved my point. Much of mainland Greece is no more West Asian than Balkan Slavs, and not more than Albania. The islands are closer to Sicily and southern Italy, and both the islands and South Italy are more West Asian than mainland Greece. So you'd have to remove all of these groups.

[Hellenas]

1st guy is from Madeira and very atypical and dark (possibly gypsy), but that's not saharid. More like a middle-eastern phenotype (looks like some of those guys Sikeliot often posts).

https://diarioatual.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/13-Jo%C3%A3o-Go%C3%ADs-e1422379756366.jpg

These just are your own classifications. Anthropologists talk about dark-pigmented North African Saharid and Berberid types in Portugal, go on and call them as gypsies, dark europeans or whatever you like. Natural dark skin color is an indication of out European admixture to me as well as to most Europeans, either it's North African or North African influenced, Saharid or Saharoid. As any other place in Europe, Portugal has some out European admixture. I am sure many Portuguese call all these darkies as gypsies and don't want to get mixed with them.


2nd guy is a dinarcized gracile-med:
https://www.bdfutbol.com/i/j/70851.jpg

The other is coarse med (paleo-sardinian influenced).

None of these guys look like Saharids, if they did I would have no problem admiting it. For example, a Saharid looking Portuguese is this guy (he is from the North btw):

https://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/players/14/2018/324x324/101832.jpg

https://www.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/558e88250cf22ae409f54ef9/600.558e88250cf22ae409f54ef9.jpg

https://cdn.record.pt/images/2013-07/img_920x518$2013_07_23_15_41_00_806736.jpg

These just are your own classifications. Anthropologists talk about North African Saharids and Berberids in Portugal. Go on and call them all as gypsies, "dark europeans" or whatever you like. Natural dark skin color to me, as to most Europeans, is an indication of out European admixture, either North African Saharid, Berberid or Saharoid, Berberoid for your country, also some must be gypsies. Portugal as any other place in Europe has some out European admixture. I am sure many if not most Portuguese call those darkies as gypsies and don't want to get mixed with them.

[Dna8]

Portuguese vs Greek is a difference usually of higher Atlantid and lower Dinarid.

Greeks aren't much less "northern" than the Portuguese but it's more Slavic like I guess.

Yep, I agree.

West Northern Vs East Northern, in my mind.

[DarknessWin]

Hard , they can pass perfect as Greeks but i am not sure

[DarknessWin]

If I post all the team, this game would be very easy. Let's try...



https://i.ibb.co/tDjMpy3/Andrezinho-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/2MPtRYY/Duarte-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/NF0N0Kt/Filipe-Soares-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/chsn1KK/Gois-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/Cz8W6BS/Gon-alo-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/8dXcBFC/chabyyyy.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/BPRQTm9/Igor.jpg (https://ibb.co/ZJCFc30)
https://i.ibb.co/vYdCXzr/Joao-Patrao-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/3N9nchY/Joao-Pedro-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/Wcxwsc9/Kiko-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/NKzJPTd/Miguel-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/LzpmVPb/Queiros-400x400.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)




…

Ok forget it , they are Iberians.
The first 2 look Greek by the way but others not

[Faklon]

Due to common heritage Greeks have more genetic affinity with Middle-Easterners and North Africans than we do even if we have small percentage of North African genomes. North Africans ain't just 100% "North African" in terms of components.

Source for this(either by diy calculator or peer reviewed study)?

Greece is leaning towards Anatolia,

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fc2W-6tR-HA/Urigqts3hwI/AAAAAAAAJbg/hqZiV1TOGgc/s1600/europe.png

And from what I recall North-Africans are somewhat like WHG-shifted Beduins which would not make them close to Iberians but still closer than Greeks.



I was reffering that iberians have more steppe admixture

More likely WHG not Steppe, actually Iberians look like predominately a mix of WHG and early farmers when Greeks a mix of Yamnaya(as in Steppe) and early farmers, Steppe is not "Northern" which is absurd by itself and these people weren't particularly light-pigmented as neither were WHGs.

Swedish gatherers on the other hand were,

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9faAor2hsHU/VQTCpkYlwdI/AAAAAAAAKAY/66NrPHxDoJ4/s1600/change.jpg

Steppe describes the latest people that got absorbed into West-Northern-South European populations so neither can I see how Steppe admixture would make you more aboriginal European, cave monkey, wegue wegue. This is not a cline from North to South or percentages of aboriginal ancestry, this is triangle of three fundamental European populations(gatherers, farmers, Indo-Europeans) with more than one parameters to account. See that the Thessalonian Brás posted is closer to both Austrians and Sephardics than Iberians(with whom he probably shares a lot of farmer ancestry), this doesn't make the aforementioned populations neither "Northern" nor "Southern" than Portuguese/Iberians.

As for cherry-picking, the most famous Portuguese in Greece is José Carlos Gonçalves Rodrigues (https://www.google.gr/search?q=Jos%C3%A9+Carlos+Gon%C3%A7alves+Rodrigues&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=OX&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRgYCu0NrgAhXLJFAKHQ_vBpQQ_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=611#imgrc=bIXzmYlZQQpWTM:) and I'm quite convinced that he is not the most typical sample.

For the Dinaro-med type mentioned, I think that a fair example is Tasos Nousias (https://www.google.gr/search?q=%CF%84%CE%AC%CF%83%CE%BF%CF%82+%CE%BD%CE% BF%CF%8D%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%82&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=C0V&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj466Xl29rgAhVQyKQKHc_pCy4Q_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=611) passing from Epirus to Crete.

tl;dr

Hellenass is a bum

[DarknessWin]

Iberomaurussians samples are from the upper paleolithic. Modern Berbers haven't changed that drastically, even during that period they had already a significant portion of sub saharan genomes, being E1b1b the most common haplogroup as it still is in the present.

E1b1b is Balkanic and let Haplogroup aside .
According to DNA Greece have 0% African mix while Iberia have a lot

Greece have more anatolia mix = west asia
I can pick up the african mixed players very easy and they cant pass in Greece

https://i.imgur.com/RxjI66i.png

[Sebastianus Rex]

As for cherry-picking, the most famous Portuguese in Greece is José Carlos Gonçalves Rodrigues (https://www.google.gr/search?q=Jos%C3%A9+Carlos+Gon%C3%A7alves+Rodrigues&safe=off&client=ubuntu&hs=OX&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRgYCu0NrgAhXLJFAKHQ_vBpQQ_AUIDigB&biw=1280&bih=611#imgrc=bIXzmYlZQQpWTM:) and I'm quite convinced that he is not the most typical sample.



Zeca is not ethnic Portuguese, he is of mixed ex-colonial background (like many football players).

Good examples of dark Portuguese are these:

https://www.iol.pt/multimedia/oratvi/multimedia/imagem/id/558e88250cf22ae409f54ef9/600.558e88250cf22ae409f54ef9.jpg

http://fpfimagehandler.fpf.pt/FPFImageHandler.ashx?type=Person&id=830032&op=t&w=325&h=378

https://gmsrp.cachefly.net/images/18/07/18/2003784f21ed2d5b43b2396023b3ec31/960.jpg

[kleenex]

Portuguese. For your info there are two types of Greeks; mainland/Western Greek types and Island/Asian Minor West Asian Greeks in case you weren't aware.

[Rgvgjhvv]

God Livin you're so annoying

[Papastratosels26]

They lack West Asian features...
I will go with Portuguese.Not all Greeks have West Asian features.

[KuriousKatKommittee]

https://i.ibb.co/yW6qyNr/41.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/FY3PGfL/42.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
DaayyYYYYYamn, boi!! 😩😫💧💦💦💦💦❤👌
Not sure but they sure do belong in my ethno state (a.k.a. harem). First guy reminds me of Dom Mazzetti.

[Morena]

DaayyYYYYYamn, boi!! ��������������❤��
Not sure but they sure do belong in my ethno state (a.k.a. harem). First guy reminds me of Dom Mazzetti.

I only like the second one you posted of all the guys. He has a good face and pretty eyes. But these team shots are like mugshots or license plate pictures (shudder). I'm sure they all look better in motion and with a personality. :thumb001:

[Zroota]

Third guy is Dinaro-Med or Littorid.
Third guy may not be Saharid, but I wouldn't say he's Dinaro-Med or Littorid. If that's the case, then many West Asians will be Dinarid or Atlanto-Med.

I'd say he's Anatolid with some Orientalid and Turanid elements. I've seen Iraqi Arabs who look like that.

https://i.ibb.co/chsn1KK/Gois-400x400.jpg

Is it possible that some Portuguese people have native American ancestry, perhaps from the distant past when some his ancestors mixed with the natives and moved back to Portugal? I don't know, but he does have a pseudo Mestizo look as well. :confused:

[Zroota]

DaayyYYYYYamn, boi!! 😩😫💧💦💦💦💦❤👌
Not sure but they sure do belong in my ethno state (a.k.a. harem). First guy reminds me of Dom Mazzetti.
Second guy is too white for my liking. He looks like British conservative YouTuber, Paul Joseph Watson. Lol.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJnKYkSXcAAeZr1.jpg

First guy has those creepy, blinding blue eyes. Give him dark eyes and I think he'll be fine. :p

[Sebastianus Rex]

Portuguese. For your info there are two types of Greeks; mainland/Western Greek types and Island/Asian Minor West Asian Greeks in case you weren't aware.

So what ? There's also hundreds of thousands (millions with the diasporas) of Portuguese islanders from Madeira and Azores and we dont make any distinction, they are as Portuguese as any mainlander.

Are you insinuating that Greeks are not a true ethnicity and rather a social construct ?

Do you even live in Greece ?

[kleenex]

So what ? There's also hundreds of thousands (millions with the diasporas) of Portuguese islanders from Madeira and Azores and we dont make any distinction, they are as Portuguese as any mainlander.

Are you insinuating that Greeks are not a true ethnicity and rather a social construct ?

Do you even live in Greece ?

Hell no. I'm an American of Greek descent whose family has been in the US since the late 1800's.I even had a relative who fought in the Civil War. We endured all the bs handed out to immigrants like Poles, Irish, Slavs, Italians. We were "pure" Greeks from the mainland whose roots were deep. Not sure what's happening in Greece today but there seems to be considerable mixing with other groups.

[Mingle]

Portuguese. For your info there are two types of Greeks; mainland/Western Greek types and Island/Asian Minor West Asian Greeks in case you weren't aware.

Don't you mean three types?

1. Mainland
2. Aegean Islands
3. Asia Minor/Cyprus

[Mingle]

Hell no. I'm an American of Greek descent whose family has been in the US since the late 1800's.I even had a relative who fought in the Civil War. We endured all the bs handed out to immigrants like Poles, Irish, Slavs, Italians. We were "pure" Greeks from the mainland whose roots were deep. Not sure what's happening in Greece today but there seems to be considerable mixing with other groups.

Is there a high concentration of Greeks in Florida? Surprised you're purely Greek if your family has been around that long. Greeks are pretty rare here in NY and I never heard of them being common in any part of the US.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Hell no. I'm an American of Greek descent whose family has been in the US since the late 1800's.I even had a relative who fought in the Civil War. We endured all the bs handed out to immigrants like Poles, Irish, Slavs, Italians. We were "pure" Greeks from the mainland whose roots were deep. Not sure what's happening in Greece today but there seems to be considerable mixing with other groups.

Your previous comment is out of line for someone who is not truly Greek, you should let Greeks decide if they make distinctions between mainlanders and islanders...imo that makes sense for someone who knows about the History of ancient Greece, Magna Graecia etc...

I honestly think that americans like you and Sikeliot should avoid posting your theories (based on demodé anglo-saxon racialist views) about countries you never visited and peoples you are not in touch with.

[KingOf]

Portuguese. For your info there are two types of Greeks; mainland/Western Greek types and Island/Asian Minor West Asian Greeks in case you weren't aware.

Mainland Greeks as a group don't look Western at all... if anything they look more Eastern compared to Islanders in the Balkan sense of Eastern

[Sikeliot]

Mainland Greeks as a group don't look Western at all... if anything they look more Eastern compared to Islanders in the Balkan sense of Eastern

Peloponnesians look kind of Western European. Other mainlanders look Slavic influenced.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Your previous comment is out of line for someone who is not truly Greek, you should let Greeks decide if they make distinctions between mainlanders and islanders...imo that makes sense for someone who knows about the History of ancient Greece, Magna Graecia etc...

I honestly think that americans like you and Sikeliot should avoid posting your theories (based on demodé anglo-saxon racialist views) about countries you never visited and peoples you are not in touch with.


Mainland Greeks as a group don't look Western at all... if anything they look more Eastern compared to Islanders in the Balkan sense of Eastern

Yeah he's completely bonkers, that guy

[KingOf]

Peloponnesians look kind of Western European. Other mainlanders look Slavic influenced.

not really to me but anyway
in a group sense you can call Western Greek types those who have a pan NorthMed look honestly... as other Greeks who pass easily in Central/West Europe don't really fit the bill for common Greek look to me
Mainland Greek/Western Type and Islander/Eastern Type is wrong imo

[Sikeliot]

not really to me but anyway
in a group sense you can call Western Greek types those who have a pan NorthMed look honestly... as other Greeks who pass easily in Central/West Europe don't really fit the bill for common Greek look to me
Mainland Greek/Western Type and Islander/Eastern Type is wrong imo

Greeks typically fall into 4 groups to me:

1. Balkan/Slavicized types, mostly in Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace, and Epirus
2. A more "Pan-South Euro" look common to Peloponnese, North Aegean, and Cyclades
3. "Sicilian" looking people from Dodecanese, Crete, and Cyprus
4. Anatolian/Caucasus types in Cappadoccian and Pontic Greeks

[KingOf]

Yeah he's completely bonkers, that guy

you are from Canada right?
i see two sides have formed in this forum about phenotypes... one the Natives who where born and raised in their country and other the Natives born in New World countries
growing in a country full of Euromutts you can't really have a good opinion about your ethnicity and it's looks

[nafz]

you are from Canada right?
i see two sides have formed in this forum about phenotypes... one the Natives who where born and raised in their country and other the Natives born in New World countries
growing in a country full of Euromutts you can't really have a good opinion about your ethnicity and it's looks

Even among Greek native users there are differing opinions about how Greeks look....

[Rgvgjhvv]

you are from Canada right?
i see two sides have formed in this forum about phenotypes... one the Natives who where born and raised in their country and other the Natives born in New World countries
growing in a country full of Euromutts you can't really have a good opinion about your ethnicity and it's looks

I am one of the best on here identifying Greeks. But the Greeks I am used to seeing my entire life are Peloponnesians , Islanders and Cypriots. When I see pseudo-Balkan or pseudo-Northern shifted Greeks it is very foreign to me. But I also know those are not the typical phenotype that exist within our ethnicity either.


Greeks typically fall into 4 groups to me:

1. Balkan/Slavicized types, mostly in Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace, and Epirus
2. A more "Pan-South Euro" look common to Peloponnese, North Aegean, and Cyclades
3. "Sicilian" looking people from Dodecanese, Crete, and Cyprus
4. Anatolian/Caucasus types in Cappadoccian and Pontic Greeks

It's impossible to put Greeks into phenotypical categories like this. It's just not accurate as you'll find way too many crossovers in reality. For example, my family easily fits phenotypically anywhere from Sicily to Cyprus and that doesn't make us atypical for being from Samos. Not even close. It just means we lack a predominately "Balkan" look that other Greeks may have

[Rgvgjhvv]

Even among Greek native users there are differing opinions about how Greeks look....

That's because the majority of Northern Greeks on TA have a nordicized fetish. Then non-Greeks give in to their agenda and everyone becomes completely ignorant to reality

[KingOf]

Greeks typically fall into 4 groups to me:

1. Balkan/Slavicized types, mostly in Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace, and Epirus
2. A more "Pan-South Euro" look common to Peloponnese, North Aegean, and Cyclades
3. "Sicilian" looking people from Dodecanese, Crete, and Cyprus
4. Anatolian/Caucasus types in Cappadoccian and Pontic Greeks

i can mostly agree in your post but i can see it is a carbon copy of how you analyze genetics
anyway most Greeks have panGreek look to me even if they fit better in a group you posted rather another... i can post numerous Greek 'traps' here but it is pointless really...

[KingOf]

Even among Greek native users there are differing opinions about how Greeks look....

yes but that siding i posted still exists... most Italians disagree with American Sikeliot and that happened with other countries as well

[nafz]

That's because the majority of Northern Greeks on TA have a nordicized fetish. Then non-Greeks give in to their agenda and everyone becomes completely ignorant to reality

I agree that some may have an agenda, some others though are simply responding to trollish posts made by non Greeks.

[KingOf]

I am one of the best on here identifying Greeks. But the Greeks I am used to seeing my entire life are Peloponnesians , Islanders and Cypriots. When I see pseudo-Balkan or pseudo-Northern shifted Greeks it is very foreign to me. But I also know those are not the typical phenotype that exist within our ethnicity either.

Then you are not the best my friend :p You need to travel Greece more because Balkan and Slavic looking Greeks very well exist.

[Rgvgjhvv]

yes but that siding i posted still exists... most Italians disagree with American Sikeliot and that happened with other countries as well

The thing that doesn't make sense with that comparison is that Sikeliot is exoticizing Sicilians IN Sicily, not Sicilian-Americans. So he's arguing with Southern Italians IN Italy about how they look like, even though THEY are the ones who live there.

[Dorian]

Yeah the division between Greek groups and their genetics/phenotypes are exaggerated and there is overlap but If you want to take such divisions seriously kleenex might be up to something.Take a look here:
For the english users :1st autocthonous/2 refugees/3 internal migrants ,so it seems it's not only about anatolian refugees in the two big Greek cities but in most of them along with internal migrations so it's more complicated.

https://i.postimg.cc/KcfV0vWg/ahZ6Est.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Rgvgjhvv]

Then you are not the best my friend :p You need to travel Greece more because Balkan and Slavic looking Greeks very well exist.

I know they exist, I visit every year in Athens and it is something I still am not used to. They are not the greatest representation, however. But obviously fit very well amongst their native regions.

[KingOf]

Yeah the division between Greek groups and their genetics/phenotypes are exaggerated and there is overlap but If you want to take such divisions seriously kleenex might be up to something.Take a look here:
For the english users :1st autocthonous/2 refugees/3 internal migrants ,so it seems it's not only about anatolian refugees in the two big Greek cities but in most of them along with internal migrations so it's more complicated.

i saw your face recently bro and in this forum you can only pass as Northern Greek... where is your ancestry from?
if i post mine i can't pass in North Greece (i don't really look West Asian influenced but i definitely pass better in Crete/Cyprus than Bulgaria on my border... i don't really look Native Balkan... let alone Slavic influenced)

[Dorian]

i saw your face recently bro and in this forum you can only pass as Northern Greek... where is your ancestry from?
if i post mine i can't pass in North Greece (i don't really look West Asian influenced but i definitely pass better in Crete/Cyprus than Bulgaria on my border... i don't really look Native Balkan... let alone Slavic influenced)

In paper I'm Half-Northerner/Half-Southerner (Voliot-Messinian) ,until recently I thought I was half Constantinopolitan from refugees to Volos but apparently it was just the half of my mother's one grandmother(lol) and so I have actual northern ancestry that splits to (kozani/selitsa-achaea/drama/pilio along with the fanariot).
Paternal side mostly Maniot since my village is a Maniot colony to Messinia with the exception of grandmother's paternal side who were from Lefkada, and my surname's ancestor who came to this village from Arcadia(something like g or g2-father of my grandfather so my ydna would be "arcadian".)

Yeah ,a big analysis :p but I just want to show how meaningless is to use someone's birth place to correlate it with his autosomal,it's meaningless unless you know his family tree,the above chart proves this.

I guess these light Sfakiots according to these forums are bulgaroslavs that migrated there lol.

[KingOf]

In paper I'm Half-Northerner/Half-Southerner (Voliot-Messinian) ,until recently I thought I was half Constantinopolitan from refugees to Volos but apparently it was just the half of my mother's one grandmother(lol) and so I have actual northern ancestry that splits to (kozani/selitsa-achaea/drama/pilio along with the fanariot).
Paternal side mostly Maniot since my village is a Maniot colony to Messinia with the exception of grandmother's paternal side who were from Lefkada, and my surname's ancestor who came to this village from Arcadia(something like g or g2-father of my grandfather so my ydna would be "arcadian".)

Yeah ,a big analysis :p but I just want to show how meaningless is to use someone's birth place to correlate it with his autosomal,it's meaningless unless you know his family tree,the above chart proves this.

I guess these light Sfakiots according to these forums are bulgaroslavs that migrated there lol.

pretty complicated and cool!
just so you know Makedonian/Thracian Greeks don't consider Epirus/Thessaly as North Greece... leave us alone :p
true about Sfakiots i will just tell others my ancestors were badass Islander pirates to play it cool from now on lol

[Dorian]

i saw your face recently bro and in this forum you can only pass as Northern Greek... where is your ancestry from?
if i post mine i can't pass in North Greece (i don't really look West Asian influenced but i definitely pass better in Crete/Cyprus than Bulgaria on my border... i don't really look Native Balkan... let alone Slavic influenced)

For a second I thought you were livin when you mentioned how you can't pass in the North :P ,I haven't seen you ,you could upload one.

[KingOf]

For a second I thought you were livin when you mentioned how you can't pass in the North :P ,I haven't seen you ,you could upload one.

i pass ofc bro... non Greeks will say i don't pass that was my point
not feeling like uploading for now... maybe in the future

[Dorian]

pretty complicated and cool!
just so you know Makedonian/Thracian Greeks don't consider Epirus/Thessaly as North Greece... leave us alone :p
true about Sfakiots i will just tell others my ancestors were badass Islander pirates to play it cool from now on lol

Right!central Greeks they're called here..I meant compared to the cretans/maniots/aegeans etc they'd be considered slavovlachs here.
Well I don't underestimate real slavovlachness ,it's just that these phenotypes were not exclusive to them so you can't be sure to call them such ,especially when we're talking about balkanoslavs or in other cases where they'll mention venetians as If these themselves had a majority of such types.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Congratulations Greeks...you have been Sikeliotized !

Greeks are Greeks...whatever, we in Portugal even take pride about Lisbon (ancient Olissipo) being founded and named after unknown Greek seamen who represented the mythological figure of Ulysses...nobody cares if they came from an island or Attica or Peloponesus whatever, they WERE GREEK !

[Sikeliot]

yes but that siding i posted still exists... most Italians disagree with American Sikeliot and that happened with other countries as well

They can have their disagreements, we're all entitled to our opinions. I am not trying to force them to conform to my point of view (which is backed by genetics -- do you even know what Sicilians are like genetically?).

[KingOf]

They can have their disagreements, we're all entitled to our opinions. I am not trying to force them to conform to my point of view (which is backed by genetics -- do you even know what Sicilians are like genetically?).

i know what they are like... i've seen some stuff
still closer to Mainland Greeks than to Lebanese but you still believe it is more common for a Sicilian to look half Greek/half Lebanese than full Greek

[Sikeliot]

i know what they are like... i've seen some stuff
still closer to Mainland Greeks than to Lebanese but you still believe it is more common for a Sicilian to look half Greek/half Lebanese than full Greek

Sicilians are closest to Cretans/Dodecanese. They don't have enough NE European type DNA to be like mainland Greeks, and have more Levantine DNA than most Greeks have... but I didn't say they on average fit better in Lebanon than in Greece.

I did however say they fit better in the Levant than in Iberia, which DNA supports.

[KingOf]

Sicilians are closest to Cretans/Dodecanese. They don't have enough NE European type DNA to be like mainland Greeks, and have more Levantine DNA than most Greeks have... but I didn't say they on average fit better in Lebanon than in Greece.

I did however say they fit better in the Levant than in Iberia, which DNA supports.

i don't know about that last part it doesn't go like that to me... for example Greece is closer to Bosnia than to Iberia genetically but we fit better in Iberia imo

[kleenex]

https://cdn-images.rtp.pt/icm/noticias/images/8e/8ec5ec54ed489bd79dd84bcd0b439a6e?620&rect=0,121,1838,1008&w=860


From all the players posted, João Pedro is actually the one from my perception that looks stereotypically Greek, rather than Portuguese.

He doesn't look Greek to me

[kleenex]

He doesn't look Greek to me

I'm 100! percent mainland Greek I guess I don't look typical in your opinion:

[Livin]

Greeks typically fall into 4 groups to me:

1. Balkan/Slavicized types, mostly in Thessaly, Macedonia, Thrace, and Epirus
2. A more "Pan-South Euro" look common to Peloponnese, North Aegean, and Cyclades
3. "Sicilian" looking people from Dodecanese, Crete, and Cyprus
4. Anatolian/Caucasus types in Cappadoccian and Pontic Greeks

LOL.

The caucasus term is completely wrong.Pontic Greeks are probably the swarthiest ethnic group in the whole country.The majority of us looking closer to cypriots and sicilians rather to georgians,dagestanis and other caucasus groups.Do not also forget that we score the highest east med admixture along with Cypriots in the whole country.To be honest the average Pontians looks closer to a syrian,lebanese,assyrian,kurd rather to a caucasus groups like Laz,Georgian,dagestanis,Cissarians etc.

[Livin]

I'm 100! percent mainland Greek I guess I don't look typical in your opinion:

You look fine for mainland standarts.I would never guess you for islander or cretan!!!

You pass easy in Macedonia region aswell.

[Faklon]

You look fine for mainland standarts.I would never guess you for islander or cretan!!!

You pass easy in Macedonia region aswell.

He can easily pass in the Aegean and he along with Sikeliot should stop pushing the mainland bias.

It's not like he looks like this Aegean islander politician carrying a surname that can be correlated with Dalmatia, Giannis Ragousis

https://nb.bbend.net/media/news/2016/04/29/692263/main/ragkousis.jpg

[nafz]

He can easily pass in the Aegean and he along with Sikeliot should stop pushing the mainland bias.

It's not like he looks like this Aegean islander politician carrying a surname that can be correlated with Dalmatia, Giannis Ragousis

https://nb.bbend.net/media/news/2016/04/29/692263/main/ragkousis.jpg

Actually his surname can be correlated with Sicily

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragusa,_Sicily

[Faklon]

Actually his surname can be correlated with Sicily

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragusa,_Sicily

Doubtful,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ragusa

http://paros-onomata.blogspot.com/2014/03/blog-post_9095.html



–Ραγκούσης ή Ραγούσης ή Ραγγούσης: Επίθετο πατριδωνύμιο. Καταγωγής από τη Ραγούζα (Ragusa) σήμερα Ντουμπρόβνικ στην ανατολική Αδριατική. Ιλλύριοι φυλή της Ραγούζας, Λιμάνι γνωστό της εποχής για τις εμπορικές συναλλαγές των μεσογειακών λαών αλλά και την εύρεση εργατών, στρατιωτών κλπ. Η Ραγούζα είναι το σημερινό Ντουμρόβνικ της Κροατίας. Η Δημοκρατία της Ραγκούσα (επίσης γνωστή ως Δημοκρατία του Ντουμπρόβνικ, το όνομά του το πείρε από τον προστάτη St. Biagio) ήταν μια ναυτική δημοκρατία στην Αδριατική, υπήρχε από τον δέκατο αιώνα έως το 1808. Το κεφάλαιό της ήταν η πόλη του Ντουμπρόβνικ στη Δαλματία το έδαφός της είναι πλέον μέρος της Κροατίας και ένα μικρό μέρος του Μαυροβουνίου (Sutorina) και Βοσνία και Ερζεγοβίνη (Neum). Οι κάτοικοί της μιλούσαν Δαλματικά, μια λατινογενή γλώσσα που μιλούσαν κάποτε κατά μήκος των ακτών της Δαλματίας. Οι Παριανοί, ως γνωστόν είχαν αποικία τους το νησί Φάρος της Αδριατικής. Καθολικού δόγματος, όπως κι άλλα επίθετα από τη Ραγούζα βλέπε Αργουζής, Ραουζαίος κλπ. Σε τεφτέρια αργυραμοιβών αναφέρονται ακόμη Ναπολιτάνικα και Ραγκουσέϊκα αργυρά τάλιρα, χρυσά αλτίν, μισίρια και τουνέζικα φλουριά.

[nafz]

Doubtful,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ragusa

http://paros-onomata.blogspot.com/2014/03/blog-post_9095.html


I have not been able to find any non Greek reference about the island of Paros having established a colony in the Adriatic like your source claims.

On the other hand it is a well known fact that the Cyclades including Paros was under western and Latin control for centuries, see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_the_Archipelago

Given the fact that Ragusi is an Italian surname, see

https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/RAGUSI

it would make much more sense that the surname was transplanted to Paros by some Latin/Western/Italian person who happened to live there than your dubious

"Adriatic colony of Paros" theory.

[Livin]

He can easily pass in the Aegean and he along with Sikeliot should stop pushing the mainland bias.

It's not like he looks like this Aegean islander politician carrying a surname that can be correlated with Dalmatia, Giannis Ragousis

https://nb.bbend.net/media/news/2016/04/29/692263/main/ragkousis.jpg

He neither look south but neither north.IMO he looks mainland without strong levantine input or without slavobalkan mix.

[Livin]

He can easily pass in the Aegean and he along with Sikeliot should stop pushing the mainland bias.

It's not like he looks like this Aegean islander politician carrying a surname that can be correlated with Dalmatia, Giannis Ragousis

https://nb.bbend.net/media/news/2016/04/29/692263/main/ragkousis.jpg

Ragousis is Norid or North Pontid/Dinarid mix.Kinda balkan look!!!

[Faklon]

I have not been able to find any non Greek reference about the island of Paros having established a colony in the Adriatic like your source claims.

On the other hand it is a well known fact that the Cyclades including Paros was under western and Latin control for centuries, see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_the_Archipelago

Given the fact that Ragusi is an Italian surname, see

https://www.cognomix.it/mappe-dei-cognomi-italiani/RAGUSI

it would make much more sense that the surname was transplanted to Paros by some Latin/Western/Italian person who happened to live there than your dubious

"Adriatic colony of Paros" theory.

1. Not my theory.

2. You should be looking for books instead of references.

https://www.amazon.com/Pharos-Parian-Settlement-Dalmatia-International/dp/1841719919

I remember Jana telling me that there some people in Dalmatia claiming Greek ancestry.

[Dorian]

Surnames are only useful for ydna purposes,it's meaningless to correlate it with phenotypes.

[nafz]

1. Not my theory.

2. You should be looking for books instead of references.

https://www.amazon.com/Pharos-Parian-Settlement-Dalmatia-International/dp/1841719919

I remember Jana telling me that there some people in Dalmatia claiming Greek ancestry.

Yeah I saw the book too.

Still it talks about a Parian colony of the 4th c BC.

The Italians were in the cyclades until the 16th century AD.

That's like 2 millennia of time difference.

Again it makes more sense that the name was brought to us by the Italians than of it being indigenous from Paros.

[Faklon]

He neither look south but neither north.IMO he looks mainland without strong levantine input or without slavobalkan mix.

When you speak of input you should post IBD, otherwise it's just another meaningless anthrotard word.

He looks like a generic old man from Heraklion to Metsovo, one day he could be selling loukoumades and the other one feta.


Ragousis is Norid or North Pontid/Dinarid mix.Kinda balkan look!!!

Balkan look indeed, likely paired with balkan roots.

[Livin]

When you speak of input you should post IBD, otherwise it's just another meaningless anthrotard word.

He looks like a generic old man from Heraklion to Metsovo, one day he could be selling loukoumades and the other one feta.



Balkan look indeed, likely paired with balkan roots.

Strong levantine input is much stronger among islanders,cretans etc thats why i said he looks more mainlander to me.Ofc he can pass as Cretan but not as the most typical face you can see.As for Ragousis he looks like Costas Gavras the Pontic Greek.

[Faklon]

Strong levantine input is much stronger among islanders,cretans etc thats why i said he looks more mainlander to me.Ofc he can pass as Cretan but not as the most typical face you can see.As for Ragousis he looks like Costas Gavras the Pontic Greek.

Define Levantine input ffs. Is it farmer input or are you hiding IBD shares with some Levantine civilization? If you do, which Levantine civilization is it?

Stop taking everything Sikeliot posts for granted.

[Livin]

Define Levantine input ffs. Is it farmer input or are you hiding IBD shares with some Levantine civilization? If you do, which Levantine civilization is it?

Stop taking everything Sikeliot posts for granted.

Strong levantine input is high east med admixture.I am not copying anything from Sikeliot.Some specific areas in southern parts of Greece have this input and its obvious from both genetics and looks.Do not tell me that the average Cretan looks the same with a person from Epirus,Macedonia,Thessalia or even some northern parts of Peloponnesus and Central Greece.

[nafz]

Strong levantine input is much stronger among islanders,cretans etc thats why i said he looks more mainlander to me.Ofc he can pass as Cretan but not as the most typical face you can see.As for Ragousis he looks like Costas Gavras the Pontic Greek.

Costas Gavras Pontic? I thought he was from Arcadia.

If there is Pontic ancestry it must be very distant because I have seen an interview where he mentions that his grandparents were Peloponnesean.

[Livin]

Costas Gavras Pontic? I thought he was from Arcadia.

If there is Pontic ancestry it must be very distant because I have seen an interview where he mentions that his grandparents were Peloponnesean.

http://www.pontos-news.gr/article/154838/i-istoria-tis-pontiakis-oikogeneias-ton-gavradon-sto-neo-vivlio-toy-omiroy-mayridi


http://www.pontos-news.gr/article/183025/o-kostas-gavras-apo-horio-toy-sti-gortynia-hronia-polla-stoys-pontioys


θειος μου ειναι ρε.Εμεις οι γαβραδες ειμαστε Ποντιακη οικογενεια απο την Σαντα της Τραπεζουντας κυριως.

[Livin]

Costas Gavras Pontic? I thought he was from Arcadia.

If there is Pontic ancestry it must be very distant because I have seen an interview where he mentions that his grandparents were Peloponnesean.

Διαβασε εδω για περισσοτερα αν δεν βαριεσαι και εχεις χρονο.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabras

[nafz]

http://www.pontos-news.gr/article/154838/i-istoria-tis-pontiakis-oikogeneias-ton-gavradon-sto-neo-vivlio-toy-omiroy-mayridi


http://www.pontos-news.gr/article/183025/o-kostas-gavras-apo-horio-toy-sti-gortynia-hronia-polla-stoys-pontioys


θειος μου ειναι ρε.Εμεις οι γαβραδες ειμαστε Ποντιακη οικογενεια απο την Σαντα της Τραπεζουντας κυριως.

Πολυ ενδιαφερον δεν ηξερα την προελευση του ονοματος . Στη περιπτωση του σκηνοθετη αυτο που το κανει πιο ενδιαφερον ειναι οτι καποιοι Ποντιοι βρεθηκαν στην Ελλαδα και συγκεκριμενα σε μερη που δεν παει το μυαλο οπως την ορεινη Γορτυνια της Πελοπονησου.
Συνηθως τα μερη που παει το μυαλο μας για Ποντιους στην Ελλαδα ειναι Μακεδονια, Θρακη κλπ.

[Faklon]

Strong levantine input is high east med admixture.I am not copying anything from Sikeliot.Some specific areas in southern parts of Greece have this input and its obvious from both genetics and looks.Do not tell me that the average Cretan looks the same with a person from Epirus,Macedonia,Thessalia or even some northern parts of Peloponnesus and Central Greece.

INPUT=CONTRIBUTION TO THE GENE POOL, CAN ONLY BE SEEN VIA IBD
LEVANT=A HUGE AREA OF DIFFERENT GENE POOLS AND CIVILIZATIONS

CAN YOU SHOW ME YOUR STUDY ON LEVANTINE INPUT?

Even if the average Cretan doesn't look exactly like the average Epirot they will be closer than the averages of a dozen nearby civilizations and we know that they share similar input(IBD).

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?146213-Greek-IBD-Sharing-on-23andme-Top-5-Countries-of-Ancestry-for-the-Greeks-on-my-list

Actually, the mayor of Heraklion looks kinda like kleenex.

http://www.ert.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Lamprinos2.jpg

[Faklon]

DON'T MAKE ME SOUND LIKE HELLENASS, I AM A SLAVOVLACHIC SUPREMACIST

[Livin]

Πολυ ενδιαφερον δεν ηξερα την προελευση του ονοματος . Στη περιπτωση του σκηνοθετη αυτο που το κανει πιο ενδιαφερον ειναι οτι καποιοι Ποντιοι βρεθηκαν στην Ελλαδα και συγκεκριμενα σε μερη που δεν παει το μυαλο οπως την ορεινη Γορτυνια της Πελοπονησου.
Συνηθως τα μερη που παει το μυαλο μας για Ποντιους στην Ελλαδα ειναι Μακεδονια, Θρακη κλπ.

Ναι.Οι Γαβραδες καθε χρονο κανουμε κατι σαν event και μαζευομαστε σε καποιο συγκερκιμενο μερος και τιμαμε τον αγιο θεοδωρο γαβρα.

http://www.saint.gr/2575/saint.aspx


Τον ειχα συναντησει και μια φορα απο κοντα.Μιλησαμε αν και δεν τον παω λογο του οτι πουλαει αριστεριλα και ειναι πιο πλουσιος και απο τον ροκφελερ χδδδ.Ασε που μενει παρισι...anyway,ειχα κανει classification thread γι αυτον.Διναρικο τον ταξινομησαν οι περισσοτεροι αν θυμαμαι καλα.

Παντως Γαβραδες εχει και πελοποννησο,κρητη ακομα και σε καποια νησια.

[Livin]

INPUT=CONTRIBUTION TO THE GENE POOL, CAN ONLY BE SEEN VIA IBD
LEVANT=A HUGE AREA OF DIFFERENT GENE POOLS AND CIVILIZATIONS

CAN YOU SHOW ME YOUR STUDY ON LEVANTINE INPUT?

Even if the average Cretan doesn't look exactly like the average Epirot they will be closer than the averages of a dozen nearby civilizations and we know that they share similar input(IBD).

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?146213-Greek-IBD-Sharing-on-23andme-Top-5-Countries-of-Ancestry-for-the-Greeks-on-my-list

Actually, the mayor of Heraklion looks kinda like kleenex.

http://www.ert.gr/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Lamprinos2.jpg

Anyway we have different opinions.IMO some Greeks dont look the same with other greek groups.Kleenex can pass in the whole country,but i would never guss him as a Cretan or Islander with the first.He looks Peloponnesian and central Greek.If you also check his gedmatch results you will see that he is closer to some central Italians rather to Sicilians,Cretans or Islanders.Anyway i am swarthy med but i wish i could be DinaroBALKANER RAPER like Ragousis xddd ;)

[Faklon]

Anyway we have different opinions.IMO some Greeks dont look the same with other greek groups.Kleenex can pass in the whole country,but i would never guss him as a Cretan or Islander with the first.He looks Peloponnesian and central Greek.If you also check his gedmatch results you will see that he is closer to some central Italians rather to Sicilians,Cretans or Islanders.Anyway i am swarthy med but i wish i could be DinaroBALKANER RAPER like Ragousis xddd ;)

Genetics is not about opinions but anyways.

Kleenex looks rather "mainstream Mediterranean/Euro-mediterranean" than "mainstream Balkanic" to me which of course doesn't make him unpassable in Epirus as not even Epirus looks "mainstream Balkanic" on average. He is absolutely atypical for Peloponnese as Peloponnesians are devil spawns that look either Lithuanian or Western-African, I know that this sounds absurd or trollish but once you come and live in the South you will have the chance to see it yourself.

[Livin]

Genetics is not about opinions but anyways.

Kleenex looks rather "mainstream Mediterranean/Euro-mediterranean" than "mainstream Balkanic" to me which of course doesn't make him unpassable in Epirus as not even Epirus looks "mainstream Balkanic" on average. He is absolutely atypical for Peloponnese as Peloponnesians are devil spawns that look either Lithuanian or Western-African, I know that this sounds absurd or trollish but once you come and live in the South you will have the chance to see it yourself.

You coming exactly to my words.I said the same thing with you.Kleenex looks normal euro-med(atlantomed/Pontid) without any west asian/levant influence.He is from Arcadia as he stated.I have been in whole Greece pretty much, i am travelling a lot to province so i have an average exp to how greeks look like.Peloponnesians are not all the same.You can easily recognize some swarthy maniots or some gypsy looking Pyrgiotes etc.By the way my point was that Kleenex neither looks slavobalkan and neither east med(aka levantine like many people from Crete,Islands etc).With a few words to what i call neolithic mainlander aka EV13.

[Livin]

Genetics is not about opinions but anyways.

Kleenex looks rather "mainstream Mediterranean/Euro-mediterranean" than "mainstream Balkanic" to me which of course doesn't make him unpassable in Epirus as not even Epirus looks "mainstream Balkanic" on average. He is absolutely atypical for Peloponnese as Peloponnesians are devil spawns that look either Lithuanian or Western-African, I know that this sounds absurd or trollish but once you come and live in the South you will have the chance to see it yourself.

Genetics ofc have nothing to do with phenotypes.But its obvious that populations with high east med and high west asia admixture will have west asian/ and levant like faces.

[Faklon]

With a few words to what i call neolithic mainlander aka EV13.

You do realize that this line kills more brain cells than a cocaine one, don't you?

[Livin]

You do realize that this line kills more brain cells than a cocaine one, don't you?

Neolithic mainlanders are not the same with neolithic islanders,cretans and laconians(Maniots).

J2a and g2a giving to these regions high west asia and east med admixture.EV13 is more balkan haplo and closer to albanians.Mainland Greece is northern shifted even without the slavic admixture.Because you have limited east med admixture.

[Faklon]

Neolithic mainlanders are not the same with neolithic islanders,cretans and laconians(Maniots).

J2a and g2a giving to these regions high west asia and east med admixture.EV13 is more balkan haplo and closer to albanians.Mainland Greece is northern shifted even without the slavic admixture.Because you have limited east med admixture.

Take a break from this forum.

[Livin]

You do realize that this line kills more brain cells than a cocaine one, don't you?

Majority of mainlanders are EV13 mostly with balkan mtdna if i remember well when the regions i mention above have j2a and sardinian like mtdna.Thats why they differ also on gedmatch.

[Livin]

Take a break from this forum.

For the last time.

Mainland Greece=EV13 mostly with balkan mtdna.Genetically closer to Albanians even without the slavic admixture.Limited east med admxture comparing to regions like Mani,Crete,Dodecanese and aegean islands.

Crete,Laconia,Islands=More j2a,J1 etc with sardinian like mtdna witch (increase western asia and east med admixture),genetically closer to Sicilians and South Italians in general.

Pontic Greeks and Cappadocians= A mix of J2a and G2a with west asian like mdna genetically closer to other Mesopotamians.High east med and western asia admixture witch makes them genetically closer to armenians,assyrians,kurds,turks, etc.

Cypriots=Mostly J2a and genetically closer to other levantines.


I can't make it more simple.

[Faklon]

...

I realize what you are trying to say man, it's just arbitrary and stupid. Let's start from saying that we descend from the mingling of different civilizations and not from different components in diy calculators nor arbitrary concepts such as "Southern, Northern". Y-DNA can be a useful indicator but alone is still not enough.

[KingOf]

Anyway we have different opinions.IMO some Greeks dont look the same with other greek groups.Kleenex can pass in the whole country,but i would never guss him as a Cretan or Islander with the first.He looks Peloponnesian and central Greek.If you also check his gedmatch results you will see that he is closer to some central Italians rather to Sicilians,Cretans or Islanders.Anyway i am swarthy med but i wish i could be DinaroBALKANER RAPER like Ragousis xddd ;)

we are not blind my dude of course 30 Cretans and 30 Makedonians will be guessed which group is which... we are talking about individuals here and most Greeks pass in all of Greece including Mr. Kleenex...

[Livin]

I realize what you are trying to say man, it's just arbitrary and stupid. Let's start from saying that we descend from the mingling of different civilizations and not from different components in diy calculators nor arbitrary concepts such as "Southern, Northern". Y-DNA can be a useful indicator but alone is still not enough.

Δεν υπαχει καμμια γενετικη διαφορα μεταξυ του greek mainlander και ενος αλβανου.Ακομα και τις σλαβικες επιδρασεις να βγαλεις θα δεις οτι ειναι πανω κατω το ιδιο.Ολη η mainland απο την θρακη εως την μεσσηνια ειναι γενετικα northern shifted και πεφτει πανω στην αλβανια.Προσπαθω να στο φερω με τις απλοομαδες για να καταλαβεις οτι οι νεολιθικοι αγροτες δεν ειναι ολοι το ιδιο,οπως επισης το mtdna το οποιο ακομα και εγω δεν το γνωριζω αριστα ειναι διαφορετικο.Οι περιοχες που σου ανεφερα ειναι γενετικα διαφορετικες απο την mainland και ο λογος δεν εχει να κανει με τους σλαβους.Παπαρια μεντολες...η σλαβικη επιδραση στην ελλαδα να ειναι το παρα πολυ 30 με 35%.Μην το τραγικοποιουμε το θεμα...!

Ακομα και καποια gedmatch απο mainlanders αν δεις οπως π.χ του φιλου μας του kleenex που ειναι απο αρκαδια θα δεις οτι γενετικα ειναι πιο κοντα με καποιες κεντροβορειες περιοχες της ιταλιας η και με την αλβανια παρα με την κρητη,την σικελια,και τους ασκεναζιτες εβραιους που αυτα τα 3 group ειναι λιγο πολυ minoan like στο γενετικο κομματι.Ο Σικελιοτ αν και στο θεμα το ανθρωπολογικο γραφει μαλακιες και δεν εχει την παραμικρη ιδεα για το πως μοιαζουν οι ελληνες στο γενετικο κομματι τα γραφει σωστα.Οι περιοχες που αναφερω ειναι διαφορετικα τοσο στο autosomal οσο και στο ydna/mtdna.

Tεσπα το ολο θεμα πηγε μακρια,αυτο που ηθελα να πω ειναι οτι ο Klennex οπως και ειπες και συμφωνω 100% ειναι euro med.Το χρωμα επιδερμιδας ειναι νορμαλ,χωρις καποιο extreme trait.Ισως λιγο τα ματια του δινουν ενα περιεργο vibe λογο του οτι ειναι αμυγδαλωτα/close-set κλασσικο παραδειγμα μεσογειακων η εκδιναρισμενων στα βαλκανια και στην νοτια ευρωπη.Δεν ειπα οτι δεν περναει με τιποτα στα νησια η στην κρητη αλλα σε καμμια περιπτωση δεν θα τον εκανα ως πρωτη επιλογη.Νομιζω οτι ως αρκας και κεντρικοπελοποννησιος ειναι ενα καλο παραδειγμα mainlander.Θα μπορουσε να περασει ανετα στη Θεσσαλονικη ειτε ως ντοπιος η ακομα και ως θρακιωτης/μικρασιατης.

[Livin]

we are not blind my dude of course 30 Cretans and 30 Makedonians will be guessed which group is which... we are talking about individuals here and most Greeks pass in all of Greece including Mr. Kleenex...

So,you telling me that Polakis can pass in epirus or Thessalia :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Or that Sakis Rouvas looks typical for Islands and Crete xdddd.Its late for jokes..

[KingOf]

So,you telling me that Polakis can pass in epirus or Thessalia :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Or that Sakis Rouvas looks typical for Islands and Crete xdddd.Its late for jokes..

i said most Greeks dude not all what are you talking about...
now take this badass looking Dodecannese islander mayor and this swarthoid Makedonian and go to bed

Ο Φώτης Μάγγος γεννήθηκε στις 22 Οκτωβρίου του1973 στη Ρόδο Πατέρας του ο Μιχάλης Μάγγος, πρώην δήμαρχος Λειψών (1975-1978) και μητέρα του η Αλεξάνδρα Μάγγου, με καταγωγή από τους Λειψούς.
http://www.lipsi.gov.gr/sites/default/files/arxia/dimarxos.jpg
https://notosmedia.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/3596bbe40889e50308e08b4a567288d6_XL.jpg

Φάνης Παπάς Βιογραφικό Γεννήθηκα στη Θεσσαλονίκη το 1977. Η καταγωγή μου είναι από το Σοχό της επαρχίας Λαγκαδά, με ρίζες από τη Βλάστη Κοζάνης.
https://www.karfitsa.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Fanis-Pappas.jpg
https://www.voria.gr/images/thumbs_medium//2016-12/aGUc2NMPByq1N33ZaqME.jpg

[kleenex]

[QUOTE=Livin;5845682]You coming exactly to my words.I said the same thing with you.Kleenex looks normal euro-med(atlantomed/Pontid) without any west asian/levant influence.He is from Arcadia as he stated.I have been in whole Greece pretty much, i am travelling a lot to province so i have an average exp to how greeks look like.Peloponnesians are not all the same.You can easily recognize some swarthy maniots or some gypsy looking Pyrgiotes etc.By the way my point was that Kleenex neither looks slavobalkan and neither east med(aka levantine like many people from Crete,Islands etc).With a few words to what i call neolithic mainlander aka EV13.[/QUOTE

I humbly agree and my maternal grandfather (I discovered) was EV13 but my paternal side is G2A (from Messinia) which is an old neolithic lineage in Southern Greece. My take is that mainland Greece is made up of old Neolithic (and pre Neolithic) types that are similar to other West Meds; i.e, Sardinians, Tuscans, etc. The neolithic types in Greece have minimal Slav admixture and are actually much closer to Paleo-Balkan types. Then you have more Slav admixed types (have them in my own family) that look Macedonian (Slav Macedonia)), Serb, etc. As you noted there are "darker" Berid types in Mani. I believe that the Berid type can exist in Mani but not the Armenoid type which is a minority in Crete and the Dodacanese. By the way G2A's arrived in Europe around 7000 bc and migrated as far West as Scandinavia. Here is my paternal (G2A) grandfather; 85513

[Livin]

i said most Greeks dude not all what are you talking about...
now take this badass looking Dodecannese islander mayor and this swarthoid Makedonian and go to bed

Ο Φώτης Μάγγος γεννήθηκε στις 22 Οκτωβρίου του1973 στη Ρόδο Πατέρας του ο Μιχάλης Μάγγος, πρώην δήμαρχος Λειψών (1975-1978) και μητέρα του η Αλεξάνδρα Μάγγου, με καταγωγή από τους Λειψούς.
http://www.lipsi.gov.gr/sites/default/files/arxia/dimarxos.jpg
https://notosmedia.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/3596bbe40889e50308e08b4a567288d6_XL.jpg

Φάνης Παπάς Βιογραφικό Γεννήθηκα στη Θεσσαλονίκη το 1977. Η καταγωγή μου είναι από το Σοχό της επαρχίας Λαγκαδά, με ρίζες από τη Βλάστη Κοζάνης.
https://www.karfitsa.gr/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Fanis-Pappas.jpg
https://www.voria.gr/images/thumbs_medium//2016-12/aGUc2NMPByq1N33ZaqME.jpg

Τα παραδειγματα σου ειναι εντελως ακυρα και ειμαι σιγουρος οτι δεν εχεις δει κρητικο ουτε για δειγμα.Αν ο δευτερος ειναι swarthoid macedonian εγω ειμαι κελτικος νορδικος απο το εσσεξ της αγγλιας.Ο δευτερος ειναι τυπικη φατσα που μπορει να βρεθει σε ολα τα βαλκανια.Και δεν ειναι καν swarthoid.Οσο για τον πρωτο μοιαζει περισσοτερο με γαλλο-ελβετο παρα με ελληνα της mainland.Θα τον εκανα ανετα για σεφ σε καποιο κυριλε restaurant του παρισιου...

[Livin]

[QUOTE=Livin;5845682]You coming exactly to my words.I said the same thing with you.Kleenex looks normal euro-med(atlantomed/Pontid) without any west asian/levant influence.He is from Arcadia as he stated.I have been in whole Greece pretty much, i am travelling a lot to province so i have an average exp to how greeks look like.Peloponnesians are not all the same.You can easily recognize some swarthy maniots or some gypsy looking Pyrgiotes etc.By the way my point was that Kleenex neither looks slavobalkan and neither east med(aka levantine like many people from Crete,Islands etc).With a few words to what i call neolithic mainlander aka EV13.[/QUOTE

I humbly agree and my maternal grandfather (I discovered) was EV13 but my paternal side is G2A (from Messinia) which is an old neolithic lineage in Southern Greece. My take is that mainland Greece is made up of old Neolithic (and pre Neolithic) types that are similar to other West Meds; i.e, Sardinians, Tuscans, etc. The neolithic types in Greece have minimal Slav admixture and are actually much closer to Paleo-Balkan types. Then you have more Slav admixed types (have them in my own family) that look Macedonian (Slav Macedonia)), Serb, etc. As you noted there are "darker" Berid types in Mani. I believe that the Berid type can exist in Mani but not the Armenoid type which is a minority in Crete and the Dodacanese. By the way G2A's arrived in Europe around 7000 bc and migrated as far West as Scandinavia. Here is my paternal (G2A) grandfather; 85513

Υep.Ev13 lineages mixed with paleoeuropeans I2(cromanoid etc) and you have sardinian like people.Then g2a come but these people didn't left big genetic impact to mainland.They moved their assed northern.But Cretans etc have similar mtdna.

[KingOf]

Τα παραδειγματα σου ειναι εντελως ακυρα και ειμαι σιγουρος οτι δεν εχεις δει κρητικο ουτε για δειγμα.Αν ο δευτερος ειναι swarthoid macedonian εγω ειμαι κελτικος νορδικος απο το εσσεξ της αγγλιας.Ο δευτερος ειναι τυπικη φατσα που μπορει να βρεθει σε ολα τα βαλκανια.Και δεν ειναι καν swarthoid.Οσο για τον πρωτο μοιαζει περισσοτερο με γαλλο-ελβετο παρα με ελληνα της mainland.Θα τον εκανα ανετα για σεφ σε καποιο κυριλε restaurant του παρισιου...

Αν τον ποσταραν στο taxonomy ως Παπαδακη με ενα σαρικι στο κεφαλι ξερω πολυ καλα τι θα ελεγες φιλε...
γιατι πρεπει ολοι να συγκριθουν με το Πολακη για το δειγμα του Κρητικαρου δεν μπορω να καταλαβω

[Zuh]

1) Greek
2) Portugues

[Livin]

[QUOTE=Livin;5845682]You coming exactly to my words.I said the same thing with you.Kleenex looks normal euro-med(atlantomed/Pontid) without any west asian/levant influence.He is from Arcadia as he stated.I have been in whole Greece pretty much, i am travelling a lot to province so i have an average exp to how greeks look like.Peloponnesians are not all the same.You can easily recognize some swarthy maniots or some gypsy looking Pyrgiotes etc.By the way my point was that Kleenex neither looks slavobalkan and neither east med(aka levantine like many people from Crete,Islands etc).With a few words to what i call neolithic mainlander aka EV13.[/QUOTE

I humbly agree and my maternal grandfather (I discovered) was EV13 but my paternal side is G2A (from Messinia) which is an old neolithic lineage in Southern Greece. My take is that mainland Greece is made up of old Neolithic (and pre Neolithic) types that are similar to other West Meds; i.e, Sardinians, Tuscans, etc. The neolithic types in Greece have minimal Slav admixture and are actually much closer to Paleo-Balkan types. Then you have more Slav admixed types (have them in my own family) that look Macedonian (Slav Macedonia)), Serb, etc. As you noted there are "darker" Berid types in Mani. I believe that the Berid type can exist in Mani but not the Armenoid type which is a minority in Crete and the Dodacanese. By the way G2A's arrived in Europe around 7000 bc and migrated as far West as Scandinavia. Here is my paternal (G2A) grandfather; 85513


To make it more simple.Cretans are westernasianicized sardinian like people.This is what we call minoan like on genetics.These j2a west asian fucked sardinian like women.And you have a mix of east med/west asia/west med etc in a symmetric way.

[Livin]

Αν τον ποσταραν στο taxonomy ως Παπαδακη με ενα σαρικι στο κεφαλι ξερω πολυ καλα τι θα ελεγες φιλε...
γιατι πρεπει ολοι να συγκριθουν με το Πολακη για το δειγμα του Κρητικαρου δεν μπορω να καταλαβω


Και ποιος σου ειπε οτι εχω μονο τον Πολακη ως παραδειγμα Κρητικου?Και ποιος σου ειπε εσενα οτι ο Πολακης ειναι atypical για την Κρητη η ακομα και για καποια νησια?Οσο για τον πρωτο που μου λες το παραδειγμα σου ειναι κακο.Αν μου τον εβαζες σε classification thread θα σου ελεγα οτι ειναι κεντρικοδυτικοευρωπαιος.Σε καμμια περιπτωση δεν ειναι χαρακτηριστικο παραδειγμα κλασσικου mainlander.Ο δευτερος που εβαλες περναει πολυ πιο ανετα,και δεν ειναι σε καμμια περιπτωση swarthoid.

[Faklon]

Δεν υπαχει καμμια γενετικη διαφορα μεταξυ του greek mainlander και ενος αλβανου.Ακομα και τις σλαβικες επιδρασεις να βγαλεις θα δεις οτι ειναι πανω κατω το ιδιο.Ολη η mainland απο την θρακη εως την μεσσηνια ειναι γενετικα northern shifted και πεφτει πανω στην αλβανια.Προσπαθω να στο φερω με τις απλοομαδες για να καταλαβεις οτι οι νεολιθικοι αγροτες δεν ειναι ολοι το ιδιο,οπως επισης το mtdna το οποιο ακομα και εγω δεν το γνωριζω αριστα ειναι διαφορετικο.Οι περιοχες που σου ανεφερα ειναι γενετικα διαφορετικες απο την mainland και ο λογος δεν εχει να κανει με τους σλαβους.Παπαρια μεντολες...η σλαβικη επιδραση στην ελλαδα να ειναι το παρα πολυ 30 με 35%.Μην το τραγικοποιουμε το θεμα...!

Ακομα και καποια gedmatch απο mainlanders αν δεις οπως π.χ του φιλου μας του kleenex που ειναι απο αρκαδια θα δεις οτι γενετικα ειναι πιο κοντα με καποιες κεντροβορειες περιοχες της ιταλιας η και με την αλβανια παρα με την κρητη,την σικελια,και τους ασκεναζιτες εβραιους που αυτα τα 3 group ειναι λιγο πολυ minoan like στο γενετικο κομματι.Ο Σικελιοτ αν και στο θεμα το ανθρωπολογικο γραφει μαλακιες και δεν εχει την παραμικρη ιδεα για το πως μοιαζουν οι ελληνες στο γενετικο κομματι τα γραφει σωστα.Οι περιοχες που αναφερω ειναι διαφορετικα τοσο στο autosomal οσο και στο ydna/mtdna.

Tεσπα το ολο θεμα πηγε μακρια,αυτο που ηθελα να πω ειναι οτι ο Klennex οπως και ειπες και συμφωνω 100% ειναι euro med.Το χρωμα επιδερμιδας ειναι νορμαλ,χωρις καποιο extreme trait.Ισως λιγο τα ματια του δινουν ενα περιεργο vibe λογο του οτι ειναι αμυγδαλωτα/close-set κλασσικο παραδειγμα μεσογειακων η εκδιναρισμενων στα βαλκανια και στην νοτια ευρωπη.Δεν ειπα οτι δεν περναει με τιποτα στα νησια η στην κρητη αλλα σε καμμια περιπτωση δεν θα τον εκανα ως πρωτη επιλογη.Νομιζω οτι ως αρκας και κεντρικοπελοποννησιος ειναι ενα καλο παραδειγμα mainlander.Θα μπορουσε να περασει ανετα στη Θεσσαλονικη ειτε ως ντοπιος η ακομα και ως θρακιωτης/μικρασιατης.

Σου πόσταρα IBD πιο πάνω το οποίο κρίνει την καταγωγή μας μέσω των παππούδων μας, είναι το απόλυτο κριτήριο για να ξέρεις την κοινή καταγωγή δύο ατόμων. Αν πεις ότι εγώ ειμαι μιγάς και βγάζω τα ίδια admixtures με έναν Βορειοαφρικανό δεν σημαίνει ότι έχω Βορειοαφρικανικές ρίζες, τραγικότητες και απροσδιόριστες παπαρούνες το "Northern" και το "Minoan-like". Oι ίδιες απλοομάδες λίγο-πολύ έχουν βρεθεί σε όλη την Ελλάδα, αυτό που αλλάζει είναι η συχνοτητά τους το οποίο μπορείς να καταχωρήσεις σε διάφορους πολιτισμούς(μινωίτες, στέππα, σλάβοι κτλπ) αλλά το να αρχίσεις να μιλάς για διαφορετικό τύπο αγροτών μέσω δείγματος μόνο κάποιων απλοομάδων είναι τραγέλαφο, μπορεί η κουλτούρα του σέσκλο να είχε διαφορετικό ydna από τους μινωίτες και με την σειρά τους διαφορετικό ydna από τους κυκλαδίτες, πρέπει να μελετήσουμε αυτούς τους πολιτισμούς για να μάθουμε τι είχαν και όχι να δημιουργούμε αυτούς τους πολιτισμούς βασισμένοι ΜΟΝΟ στο y-dna. Tέλος, κατάλαβε επιτέλους ότι έχουμε 3εις βασικούς πολιτισμούς/παράγοντες στην Ευρώπη α)Ινδοευρωπαίοι/Στέππα β)Τροφοσυλλέκτες γ)Νεολιθικούς αγρότες όπου οι πρώτοι είναι φουλ Ανατολικοί(μισούς Βαλτικούς τροφοσυλλέκτες(ΕΗG)-μισούς Καυσάσιους τροφοσυλλέκτες(CHG) τους είχε βγάλει ο Haak κάτι χρονάκια πριν, αυτες έιναι οι κουλτούρες που μας ορίζουν και όχι το northern και το east-med.

[KingOf]

Και ποιος σου ειπε οτι εχω μονο τον Πολακη ως παραδειγμα Κρητικου?Και ποιος σου ειπε εσενα οτι ο Πολακης ειναι atypical για την Κρητη η ακομα και για καποια νησια?Οσο για τον πρωτο που μου λες το παραδειγμα σου ειναι κακο.Αν μου τον εβαζες σε classification thread θα σου ελεγα οτι ειναι κεντρικοδυτικοευρωπαιος.Σε καμμια περιπτωση δεν ειναι χαρακτηριστικο παραδειγμα κλασσικου mainlander.Ο δευτερος που εβαλες περναει πολυ πιο ανετα,και δεν ειναι σε καμμια περιπτωση swarthoid.

βαλε εναν swarthoid να καταλαβουμε και μεις οι θνητοι
τον Πολακη δεν τον βρισκω εξωτικο για Κρητη/νησια αλλα οχι και τυπικαλ μην κοροιδευομαστε... απλα στους ατυπικαλ

[Faklon]

Δυνατός Αρμένης ο Φάνης Παππάς, τον ανταλλάζω με Διναρικούς υπερΒαλκάνιους Κύπριους.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kdQPiRgwPto/VlBa_HF4PFI/AAAAAAAAEWw/JkVEypkl7-c/s1600/buxton18.png

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2j8ho2.jpg

[Livin]

βαλε εναν swarthoid να καταλαβουμε και μεις οι θνητοι
τον Πολακη δεν τον βρισκω εξωτικο για Κρητη/νησια αλλα οχι και τυπικαλ μην κοροιδευομαστε... απλα στους ατυπικαλ

Δεν εχω ορεξη να βαλω κανεναν.Αν θες σου δειχνω τα μουτρα μου,που οποτε πηγα Κρητη οι ντοπιοι με περναγαν για δικο τους και μου ελεγαν οτι μοιαζω αρκετα με Κρητικο.Ακομα και στον στρατο στην ΕΣΣΟ μου οι περισσοτεροι Κρητικοι ερχοντουσαν και με ελεγαν Κοπελι δικο μας εισαι εσυ ρε?

Φυσικα δεν θεωρω οτι μοιαζω με Κρητικο αλλα ως ενα σημειο μπορω να περασω πολυ πιο ανετα απ οτι περναω στην βορεια ελλαδα που ειμαι σαν την μυγα μες το γαλα..

[KingOf]

Δυνατός Αρμένης ο Φάνης Παππάς, τον ανταλλάζω με Διναρικούς υπερΒαλκάνιους Κύπριους.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kdQPiRgwPto/VlBa_HF4PFI/AAAAAAAAEWw/JkVEypkl7-c/s1600/buxton18.png

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2j8ho2.jpg

hahaha on the trade block also Kleenex'es kin Mihalis Bousis... a rich Peloponnesean-American (yes he is not Maniot, don't castrate him) who came back to motherland to own a football team
Livin is definitely brainwashed by Sikeliot's genetic analysis

http://www.gazzetta.gr/sites/default/files/styles/wweekend_inarticle/public/article/2018-09/img_8382_1.jpg?itok=c8WckFgl
http://resources.sport-fm.gr/supersportFM/images/news/18/10/18/150016.jpg

[KingOf]

Δεν εχω ορεξη να βαλω κανεναν.Αν θες σου δειχνω τα μουτρα μου,που οποτε πηγα Κρητη οι ντοπιοι με περναγαν για δικο τους και μου ελεγαν οτι μοιαζω αρκετα με Κρητικο.Ακομα και στον στρατο στην ΕΣΣΟ μου οι περισσοτεροι Κρητικοι ερχοντουσαν και με ελεγαν Κοπελι δικο μας εισαι εσυ ρε?

Φυσικα δεν θεωρω οτι μοιαζω με Κρητικο αλλα ως ενα σημειο μπορω να περασω πολυ πιο ανετα απ οτι περναω στην βορεια ελλαδα που ειμαι σαν την μυγα μες το γαλα..

δεν αντιλεγω οτι περνας πιο ευκολα στη Κρητη απο οτι στο Βορρα... νομιζω ειμαι κατανοητος σε αυτο το θεμα
συμφωνω οτι οι φαινοτυποι στη Ελλαδα απο περιοχη σε περιοχη αλλαζουν απλα τα ποσοστα εμφανισης... για αυτο και φαινονται διαφορες σαν groups

[Livin]

hahaha on the trade block also Kleenex'es kin Mihalis Bousis... a rich Peloponnesean-American (yes he is not Maniot, don't castrate him) who came back to motherland to own a football team
Livin is definitely brainwashed by Sikeliot's genetic analysis

http://www.gazzetta.gr/sites/default/files/styles/wweekend_inarticle/public/article/2018-09/img_8382_1.jpg?itok=c8WckFgl
http://resources.sport-fm.gr/supersportFM/images/news/18/10/18/150016.jpg

Can pass easy as Pontian without problem.

[Livin]

δεν αντιλεγω οτι περνας πιο ευκολα στη Κρητη απο οτι στο Βορρα... νομιζω ειμαι κατανοητος σε αυτο το θεμα
συμφωνω οτι οι φαινοτυποι στη Ελλαδα απο περιοχη σε περιοχη αλλαζουν απλα τα ποσοστα εμφανισης... για αυτο και φαινονται διαφορες σαν groups

Mα εγω δεν ειπα οτι οι κρητικοι ειναι UFO η οτι οι νησιωτες ειναι Ινκας απο το Μεξικο.Απλα εθιξα το θεμα οτι υπαρχουν και γενετικες και ανθρωπολογικες διαφορες αναμεσα σε περιοχες και μερη της Ελλαδας.Και να σου πω και κατι? δεν ειπα και κατι το τραγικο,Την αληθεια γραφω οσο πιο απλα μπορω.Τωρα αμα ειναι να κανω σαν τον hellenas και οπου βλεπω καστανο σκουρο μαλλι να λεω Greek και aegean med ας το παρατησουμε και ας κανουμε εθνικιστικη προπαγανδα οτι δεν υπαρχουν ουτε γενετικες ουτε ανθρωπολογικες διαφορες.

[Livin]

Δυνατός Αρμένης ο Φάνης Παππάς, τον ανταλλάζω με Διναρικούς υπερΒαλκάνιους Κύπριους.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kdQPiRgwPto/VlBa_HF4PFI/AAAAAAAAEWw/JkVEypkl7-c/s1600/buxton18.png

http://oi64.tinypic.com/2j8ho2.jpg

Κριμα να μην γεννηθηκαμε διναρικοι ρε γαμωτο....!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sikeliot]

Actually his surname can be correlated with Sicily

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragusa,_Sicily

It's the opposite actually. the name "Ragusa" must obviously be of Greek origin.

[Sikeliot]

Strong levantine input is much stronger among islanders,cretans etc thats why i said he looks more mainlander to me.Ofc he can pass as Cretan but not as the most typical face you can see.As for Ragousis he looks like Costas Gavras the Pontic Greek.

Cyclades don't have strong Levantine input, they are genetically closer to southern Peloponnese. They are distinguishable genetically from Crete and Dodecanese, and from southern Italy too.

[Livin]

Cyclades don't have strong Levantine input, they are genetically closer to southern Peloponnese. They are distinguishable genetically from Crete and Dodecanese, and from southern Italy too.

YOU are right. Greek islands are not all the same genetically.

[nafz]

It's the opposite actually. the name "Ragusa" must obviously be of Greek origin.

We are talking about the surname Ragusis.

See my other answer. Paros, Naxos, Syros and other Cyclades were under Italian control until the 16th century (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_the_Archipelago).

This is the only area of Greece which actually has a significant catholic minority.
It is more than likely that the surname "Ragusi" was transplanted to Greece via Italy.
There are many Cyclades persons with latin or Italian sounding surnames, some examples:

Russos , Martinos, Ragusis, Freris, Varveris etc

I know this well as I have 25% ancestry from the Cyclades.

[thracian_bro]

Portugese, have a distinct Atlantid face seen in Britain and Iberia