South French

[Portukalos]

North Provence (Digne , valley of Bleone):

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4117/4861207273_4c367812f2_b.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Alpes-de-Haute-Provence-Position.svg/200px-Alpes-de-Haute-Provence-Position.svg.png

Do they ressemble people in North Italy or ?

[GeistFaust]

Quite a diverse mix anything from Noric, Atlanto Med, Aplinoid Med, Sub-Nordic, and Aplinoid is represented quite well. Some of them do look especially northern Italian but a few could pass as German I think. Most of them just look French neither Italian nor German.

[Tel Errant]

North Provence (Digne , valley of Beone)
Real Provence, it's been long time that people living in Nice or worse Marseille ceased being Provençaux. Sian ben campa comme dirait l'autre.

[Portukalos]

Real Provence, it's been long time that people living in Nice or worse Marseille ceased being Provençaux. Sian ben campa comme dirait l'autre. Yeah it's pretty much the center of the region . Well actually Marseille was already an Italian city in the 40's so :tongue.

http://voyages.ideoz.fr/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Provence-Alpes-Cote-DAzur.gif

[Hess]

Yeah I think they resemble North Italians a bit. Overall, they're probably a bit lighter than people from Marseille. One of them looks a lot like my dad

[Tel Errant]

Yeah it's pretty much the center of the region . Well actually Marseille was already an Italian city in the 40's so :tongue.

http://voyages.ideoz.fr/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Provence-Alpes-Cote-DAzur.gif

Carbone et Spirito, les premiers parrains de Marseille ont importé du parmesan de contrebande alors que le port était bloqué pour je ne sais plus quelle raison. Cocasse et anecdotique mais ça te donne une idée du marché.

[Portukalos]

Carbone et Spirito, les premiers parrains de Marseille ont importé du parmesan de contrebande alors que le port était bloqué pour je ne sais plus quelle raison. Cocasse et anecdotique mais ça te donne une idée du marché.

Ils ont vite fait de prendre le contrôle de la ville d'ailleurs :rolleyes2: biensûr le parmesan n'a pas eu autant la côte que les panzani.

[Tel Errant]

Davantage que les Italiens les Corses ont été influents dans le milieu, de Carbone à Marcantoni en passant par les chimistes de la French connexion, les insulaires se sont imposés de belle manière.

[Hess]

there is actually already a thread on Marseilles

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27467

[Hess]

and here is one on SW France
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26992

[Portukalos]

there is actually already a thread on Marseilles

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27467

Thanks. But Marseille is way too mixed. It's like New York.

[Hess]

Thanks. But Marseille is way too mixed. It's like New York.

what about the other link that I posted- Aquitaine, Midi-Pyrénées, and Languedoc Roussillon?

the people from the two threads look almost identical, with the people from Marseilles being just a little bit darker?

[Tel Errant]

Thanks. But Marseille is way too mixed. It's like New York.

That's right, even if the surnames match the area, it's almost certain that people will have non provençal origin. That works for all the cities of coastal mediteranean France in fact.

[GeistFaust]

That's right, even if the surnames match the area, it's almost certain that people will have non provençal origin. That works for all the cities of coastal mediteranean France in fact.

Tel Errant have you ever heard of the name De La Courvoisier I am just curious I have been doing some genealogical research for someone and this name came up located in Bezeirs. Supposedly they were French Magistrates from the area of Jura. Jean Antoine De La Courvoisier was a popular minister of defense during the reign of Charles the 10th.

[Tel Errant]

what about the other link that I posted- Aquitaine, Midi-Pyrénées, and Languedoc Roussillon?

the people from the two threads look almost identical, with the people from Marseilles being just a little bit darker?

Marseille not only is the biggest southern French city but also our biggest port. It makes as much sense as sampling Paris.
Languedoc situation is similar to that of Provence, Aquitaine and Midi-Pyrénées are ok as long as you avoid Toulouse i'd say.

[Hess]

I have to disagree with you guys about Marseilles

http://anthrofrance.blogspot.com/search/label/Limousin%20%3A%20Bas-Limousin

This is a set from Brive-la-Gaillarde, a region in the middle of France. As you can see, they don't look that much Darker than the people from Marseilles.

While I do agree with you that Marseilles has a large immigrant population, they can be very easily spotted most of the time.

[Tel Errant]

Tel Errant have you ever heard of the name De La Courvoisier I am just curious I have been doing some genealogical research for someone and this name came up located in Bezeirs. Supposedly they were French Magistrates from the area of Jura. Jean Antoine De La Courvoisier was a popular minister of defense during the reign of Charles the 10th.

De La Courvoisier is not a proper French spelling. 'De la' is féminine and 'Courvoisier' is masculine, it's either De/Du or simply 'Courvoisier'; or 'De la Courvoisière' (unlikely). And it's Béziers.
No I've never heard of it.

[Portukalos]

http://anthrofrance.blogspot.com/search/label/Limousin%20%3A%20Bas-Limousin

Except 3 outliers , they look straight up S.French.


While I do agree with you that Marseilles has a large immigrant population, they can be very easily spotted most of the time

I wasn't talking about phenotypes. Historically Marseilles was partially Italian since back to the 19th century for example.

[Tel Errant]

I have to disagree with you guys about Marseilles
About what are you disagreing exactly?



http://anthrofrance.blogspot.com/search/label/Limousin%20%3A%20Bas-Limousin

This is a set from Brive-la-Gaillarde, a region in the middle of France. As you can see, they don't look that much Darker than the people from Marseilles.

While I do agree with you that Marseilles has a large immigrant population, they can be very easily spotted most of the time.
It's not about their darkness or lightness, it's about accuracy.
Many people in Southern France come from the Parisian agglomeration or the Nord-Pas-de-Calais region which was once the "berceau" of France. It's not only a matter of foreign immigration.

[Hess]

[QUOTE=Tel Errant;447244]About what are you disagreing exactly?[QUOTE]

From what you guys were saying, It sounded to me like you think that most people in Marseilles is mixed.

Since my father is 100% French from Marseilles, I just wanted to point out that there are still many ethnic Frenchmen left in Marseilles and that Marseilles is not all that different from other regions in Southern France in terms of phenotype.

[Tel Errant]

From what you guys were saying, It sounded to me like you think that most people in Marseilles is mixed.

Since my father is 100% French from Marseilles, I just wanted to point out that there are still many ethnic Frenchmen left in Marseilles and that Marseilles is not all that different from other regions in Southern France in terms of phenotype.
Marseille is completly mixed. Even the accent is.
There are many ethnic Frenchmen in Marseille indeed, and they come from northen France. If your father is 100% Marseillais then he's a rare specimen nowadays.

[Portukalos]

From what you guys were saying, It sounded to me like you think that most people in Marseilles is mixed.

Since my father is 100% French from Marseilles, I just wanted to point out that there are still many ethnic Frenchmen left in Marseilles and that Marseilles is not all that different from other regions in Southern France in terms of phenotype. Marseille is a quite cosmopolite city and not that recently. Of course if your dad is native provencal. nobody would refute it just becoz he's from Marseille. cosmopolite doesn't mean exclusive.

[Portukalos]

Davantage que les Italiens les Corses ont été influents dans le milieu, de Carbone à Marcantoni en passant par les chimistes de la French connexion, les insulaires se sont imposés de belle manière. Les Corses j'allais les oublier :rolleyes:

[Tel Errant]

Besides, I personally can't stand Marseille, I dislike that city as much as I love Nice.

[Tel Errant]

Les Corses j'allais les oublier :rolleyes:

Don't disdain Corsicans, they're one of the most brave and deserving people of our nation.

[Portukalos]

Besides, I personally can't stand Marseille, I dislike that city as much as I love Nice.I find it is a very particular city. A double world. I always was attracted by Nice. I live quite close and I had some friends living there.

[Portukalos]

Don't disdain Corsicans, they're one of the most brave and deserving people of our nation. Never did. I gonna start a thread on them ; )

[Portukalos]

Provence used to be peopled by Ligurians (old South-Indo-European undertermined branched people) and Gauls (later arrivals , Celti-speaking tribes coming from farher north).
Im guessing some Greek and Roman settlers could be added as well especially in the south. xD

[Tel Errant]

Ligurians expanded as far as Auvergne (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velay#Les_Vellavi).

[Portukalos]

Ligurians expanded as far as Auvergne (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velay#Les_Vellavi).

Interresing. Many scholars had a hard time knowing what are the Ligurians , either were they a Celtic people or an independant Indo-European population , related to Celtic (but likely Italic as well) while now I don't know if there is a consesus but it seems the second hypothesis was taken.

[Tel Errant]

Il ne s'agit que de catégories linguistiques à mon avis, autant les Celtes que les Ligures ou les Italiques. A chaque amélioration technologique durant l'Antiquité a correspondu une nouvelle vague d'envahisseurs apportant chacun leur langue et leur culture, se superposant et se mélant à la population précédente sans la remplacer.

[supergiovane]

southern french look like Cri Cri

http://www.prdisk.ru/images/players_minifoto/popup_preview_sbastien_roch1.jpg

as soon as you go north of the Loire the people magically start looking like Emmanuel Petit.

http://static1.purepeople.com/articles/8/22/71/8/@/156256-emmanuel-petit-637x0-3.jpg

it's ok, I'm trolling.

[Portukalos]

Il ne s'agit que de catégories linguistiques à mon avis, autant les Celtes que les Ligures ou les Italiques. A chaque amélioration technologique durant l'Antiquité a correspondu une nouvelle vague d'envahisseurs apportant chacun leur langue et leur culture, se superposant et se mélant à la population précédente sans la remplacer.
Probably vous avez raison. Bien que cela s'est passé un peu avant l'Antiquité.

Il serait interressant de creuser un peu plus. Il faut que les gens essayent de chercher un peu au-de-là de leur identité première (c'est mon opinion)

[Comte Arnau]

Since my father is 100% French from Marseilles, I just wanted to point out that there are still many ethnic Frenchmen left in Marseilles and that Marseilles is not all that different from other regions in Southern France in terms of phenotype.

Frenchmen and North Africans for sure. I wonder whether there are still ethnic Provençals in Marseille or if the Frederic Mistrals are gone forever. :ohwell:

[Hussar]

Probably vous avez raison. Bien que cela s'est passé un peu avant l'Antiquité.

Il serait interressant de creuser un peu plus. Il faut que les gens essayent de chercher un peu au-de-là de leur identité première (c'est mon opinion)


The subject is interesting since the mainstream of academic world label the populations of extreme north-west Italy as Celto-ligurians.

Celto-ligurians on our textbooks are beieved to be the fundamental substratum of Piedmont, Valleè D'Aote and Liguria.

[Tel Errant]

Frenchmen and North Africans for sure. I wonder whether there are still ethnic Provençals in Marseille or if the Frederic Mistrals are gone forever. :ohwell:

For what it's worth there are three Provençaux on the Apricity, Portukalos, myself and another regionalist one. None of us have provençal ancestry.

[Ouistreham]

The subject is interesting since the mainstream of academic world label the populations of extreme north-west Italy as Celto-ligurians.

Celto-ligurians on our textbooks are beieved to be the fundamental substratum of Piedmont, Valleè D'Aote and Liguria.

This seems to be right. South-Eastern France and North-Western Italy share to various degrees a common Ligurian substrate, whose linguistic marker is the suffix "-asc." in placenames and derivates like Venasque (Provence), Grugliasco (Piedmont), and monégasque, mentonasque, tendasco, comasco, bermamasco etc.

[Hussar]

This seems to be right. South-Eastern France and North-Western Italy share to various degrees a common Ligurian substrate, whose linguistic marker is the suffix "-asc." in placenames and derivates like Venasque (Provence), Grugliasco (Piedmont), and monégasque, mentonasque, tendasco, comasco, bermamasco etc.


Yes, and cohese with that, a celtic component. Celtoligurian were an hybrid population as much as Celtiberians.
I believed it to be mainly cultural, but now i think it's biological too ; although genetic anthropology is still far from being perfetct, my latest personal results showed a range of 45-47% of "north-atlantic" (it's a conventional name, chosen to define a genetic component very common in central northern France and in the British isles) ; it's way too much to be a casuality.

[Portukalos]

The subject is interesting since the mainstream of academic world label the populations of extreme north-west Italy as Celto-ligurians.

Celto-ligurians on our textbooks are beieved to be the fundamental substratum of Piedmont, Valleè D'Aote and Liguria.

Yes it is. I did read this several times before "Celto-Ligurians" it seems to larger than only Northern Italy and would refer to an area where both Ligurian and Celtic cultures were in contacts for a very long time.

[Ibericus]

For what it's worth there are three Provençaux on the Apricity, Portukalos, myself and another regionalist one. None of us have provençal ancestry.
If im not mistaken Portukalos is half Berber jew

[Portukalos]

If im not mistaken Portukalos is half Berber jewI don't think I ever said I was Berber , Provencal or Jewish. I kept my background secret.