Classify Cherokee and Sioux Amerindians

[♥ Lily ♥]

You don't need to classify them all individually,
I just seek a general classification of their collective phenotypes.

Cherokee (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee)

https://calisphere.org/clip/500x500/20183a4f73dc768a0b3dbeecefdc0706
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/1f/f2/fd1ff20a1b881dc2ffadd74d4101ab36.jpg
https://www.legendsofamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/CherokeeIndians.jpg

[♥ Lily ♥]

Sioux (https://www.google.com/search?q=sioux+indians&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi3tr7dz6LmAhUOQ8AKHdefCK4Q_AUoAXoECBAQA w&biw=1280&bih=650#imgdii=HcK4gWBDdqGyoM:&imgrc=Zau3EoWlCbpfpM:)

https://i.pinimg.com/474x/e9/41/37/e94137f2ef1cbd8222411feb7a0a3c7a.jpg
https://www.legendsofamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/SiouxIndians.jpg
http://www.californiaindianeducation.org/famous_indians/pictures/Six_Famous_Indian_Chiefs_Horseback.jpg
http://indians.org/articles/article-images/indian-headdress.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Her_Know%2C_Dakota_Sioux%2C_by_Heyn_Photo%2C_1899. jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/58/27/825827e095e100f0090c371514cee862.jpg
http://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-2004-57778&max=1000
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/En-chief-sitting-bull.jpg/1200px-En-chief-sitting-bull.jpg
http://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-2004-57879&max=1000
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/sg8AAMXQQUpRCZJX/s-l300.jpg
http://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-2004-57816&max=1000
https://worldhistoryarchive.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/a-kiowa-mother-and-child.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/d5/0f/c8d50f04c543bc96048b66cab2b0190a.jpg
http://www.artnet.com/WebServices/images/ll00156lldz4SGFgxNECfDrCWvaHBOcUCMC/james-e.-bama-sioux-indian-wearing-ribbon-shirt.jpg
https://www.firstpeople.us/pictures/art/odd-sizes/pt/A-Sioux-Indian-865x914.jpg
https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000J7mnH0DyMqE/s/900/900/161-360-MR196d1.jpg
http://www.sonofthesouth.net/union-generals/sioux-indians/pictures/indian-beadwork.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jfhgzyt0DY

[dududud]

They are cutie.

[Dna8]

Nice photos, ♥ Lily ♥.

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Collectively I would classify them as a group of Silvid.

[mutabor]

Some individuals are admixed with Europeans.

[♥ Lily ♥]

Some individuals are admixed with Europeans.

How would you classify all the people who are aren't admixed with Europeans in these very old photographs of their tribes?

[Synapsid]

Silvids. They have high Ancestral North Amerind (ANA) compared Mesoamerican and Andean population who have more Both ANA and South American Native (SNA) related ancestry. ANA and SNA are derived from Ancestral Native American cluster (ANA). Basal ANA diverged into an "Ancient Beringian" (AB) lineage at ca. 20 kya. The non-AB lineage further diverged into "Northern Native American" (NNA) and "Southern Native American" (SNA) lineages between about 17.5 and 14.6 kya. Most pre-Columbian lineages are derived from NNA and SNA, except for the American Arctic. ButSilvid phenotype comes from
1) a higher amount of NNA
2) More basal in phenotype to more tropical Amerindians. In other words, the ancestors of all Native Americans resembled more like a Sioux or a Cheyenne than a Mayan (who under went more phenotypic changes in response to changes in the Environment) or an Inuit (more recent Siberia introduction with less West Eurasian ANE admixture and more East Asain)

[Token]

Palaeolithic Siberians.

[Synapsid]

How would you classify all the people who are aren't admixed with Europeans in these very old photographs of their tribes?

It difficult to distinctish who Euro admixture when it comes to North American Native because they often have similar phenotypic overlap with West Eurasians that are actual native compared more southern Amerindians (mesoamericans, Andean and Amazonain). It is more easier to see Euro admixture in Mexican or S. Americans native becuase they much darker skin and more broad facial features.

[Synapsid]

Palaeolithic Siberians.

Ancient Paleo-Siberians (AP) like the ancient Kolyma samples (Kolyma-1 and Kolyma-2) you mean. Upper Palaeolithic Siberians (ANS) were predominately Early West Eurasians/Paleo-Europeans, even in the Western Edges of Beringia. Yana-1 and Yana-2 were ANS (ancient North Siberian) and was very similar to MA-1/ANE, and they can be modelled as a 73% EWE (on the Kostenki-14-Sunghir-Proto Gravettian/Buryan-Kaya/Vestonice clade) and 27% ENA/Early East Asian. Ancestral Native Americans split of from the Kolyma like Ancient Paleo-Siberian (AP) around 23,000 kya which was a population modelled as 40% ANE (not ANS) and 60% EEA/North East Asian carrying the cold adapted EDAR variant 370A.

[mutabor]

They have rather Tungid skull shapes with heavy expanding cheek bones. The differences from Tungids are Papuan like features - bigger noses, more protruding mouth area and darker skin.

Sibirids

http://humanphenotypes.net/basic/sibiridm.jpghttp://humanphenotypes.net/basic/sibiridf.jpghttp://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-2004-57778&max=1000

[Synapsid]

They have rather Tungid skull shapes with heavy expanding cheek bones. The differences from Tungids are Papuan like features - bigger noses, more protruding mouth area and darker skin.

Sibirids

http://humanphenotypes.net/basic/sibiridm.jpghttp://humanphenotypes.net/basic/sibiridf.jpghttp://ids.si.edu/ids/deliveryService?id=NMAH-2004-57778&max=1000

I been to a Native American reservation in the Northern part of the States, and some individuals look very Aralid/South central Siberian. Very smooth reddish/ruddy light brown skin, very straight black hair and massive cheekbones. They look massive, taller and more stocky/build compared Mexicans or Peruvians. Some look like those mongolian wrestlers or Kazakh eagle hunters but with long hair and high nose bridge/proboscis. There was a Northern Han member on Ta who visited a reservation and said that he was confused a native when he was tanned.

[mutabor]

Chukchi girl from Russia

https://img2.ntv.ru/home/news/20170208/16_pak_vs.jpg


https://youtu.be/vg5dS5R5BfM

[mutabor]

I been to a Native American reservation in the Northern part of the States, and some individuals look very Aralid/South central Siberian. Very smooth reddish/ruddy light brown skin, very straight black hair and massive cheekbones. They look massive, taller and more stocky/build compared Mexicans or Peruvians. Some look like those mongolian wrestlers or Kazakh eagle hunters but with long hair and high nose bridge/proboscis. There was a Northern Han member on Ta who visited a reservation and said that he was confused a native when he was tanned.

Kazakh girl with stronger cheek bones, straight black hair


https://youtu.be/AGT_hJnkobs

[Lousianaboy]

wtf, they are thin and have round skull ?

[Synapsid]

Kazakh girl with stronger cheek bones, straight black hair


https://youtu.be/AGT_hJnkobs

She can pass easily as a Cheyenne native. One girl looked like her but older and a bit fatter. Unfortunately alcoholism and obesity is a common thing in reservations. I find wider eyed and tanned Kazakh as North Ameridian/Northern Plains Indian looking but they are not really common. Most Kazakhs I met have very pale skin and strong epicathnic folds.

[Maguzanci]

Ancient Paleo-Siberians (AP) like the ancient Kolyma samples (Kolyma-1 and Kolyma-2) you mean. Upper Palaeolithic Siberians (ANS) were predominately Early West Eurasians/Paleo-Europeans, even in the Western Edges of Beringia. Yana-1 and Yana-2 were ANS (ancient North Siberian) and was very similar to MA-1/ANE, and they can be modelled as a 73% EWE (on the Kostenki-14-Sunghir-Proto Gravettian/Buryan-Kaya/Vestonice clade) and 27% ENA/Early East Asian. Ancestral Native Americans split of from the Kolyma like Ancient Paleo-Siberian (AP) around 23,000 kya which was a population modelled as 40% ANE (not ANS) and 60% EEA/North East Asian carrying the cold adapted EDAR variant 370A.

How much West Eurasian ancestry do unadmixed Native Americans really have then? Does it varied in amounts among different Native populations?

[Synapsid]

How much West Eurasian ancestry do unadmixed Native Americans really have then? Does it varied in amounts among different Native populations?

It does vary among different Amerind sub-population. Ancient Beringians (AB) spilt from Ancestral Native Amerians (ANA) and seem to have absorbed more ANE-related ancestry independently before they went largely extinct, but they contributed a small amount to Athabaskans (Dene) people in Canada, whch temperorly elevated their ANE ancestry, but then the Dene had more recent Siberian (Proto-Inuit) ancestry which decreased their ANE to the Amerindian Average. I think around 30-35 percent depending what parameters you are using. The western Eurasian ancestry is Paleo-European/Gravettian related, not the Basal Eurasian admixed West Eurasians you see now. So that would make Amerinds 1/3 cro-magnon technically speaking.

[Maguzanci]

It does vary among different Amerind sub-population. Ancient Beringians (AB) spilt from Ancestral Native Amerians (ANA) and seem to have absorbed more ANE-related ancestry independently before they went largely extinct, but they contributed a small amount to Athabaskans (Dene) people in Canada, whch temperorly elevated their ANE ancestry, but then the Dene had more recent Siberian (Proto-Inuit) ancestry which decreased their ANE to the Amerindian Average. I think around 30-35 percent depending what parameters you are using. The western Eurasian ancestry is Paleo-European/Gravettian related, not the Basal Eurasian admixed West Eurasians you see now. So that would make Amerinds 1/3 cro-magnon technically speaking.

ANE is not pure West Eurasian but mixed with East Eurasian right?

Would that make pure Amerindians as genetically West Eurasian as some Turkic Central Asians like Altaian, Kyrgyz, Kazakh? And would this means that Mestizos are closer to 65-70% West Eurasian than 50% unlike Hapas?

[Synapsid]

ANE is not pure West Eurasian but mixed with East Eurasian right?

Would that make pure Amerindians as genetically West Eurasian as some Turkic Central Asians like Altaian, Kyrgyz, Kazakh? And would this means that Mestizos are closer to 65-70% West Eurasian than 50% unlike Hapas?

Yes. Mestizos cluster closer to Europeans than hapas despite having darker skin tones. Interestingly many white nationalist in North America seem to prefer East Asians (particularly Asian women) and Hapas over Mestizos. Think of John Derbyshire, Steve Sailers, Ryan Faulk and the Alt right leader Richard Spencer etc.

[Maguzanci]

Yes. Mestizos cluster closer to Europeans than hapas despite having darker skin tones. Interestingly many white nationalist in North America seem to prefer East Asians (particularly Asian women) and Hapas over Mestizos. Think of John Derbyshire, Steve Sailers, Ryan Faulk and the Alt right leader Richard Spencer etc.

I see.

Do you think this Hazara artist can pass as Silvid North American Indian type? https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?309074-Guess-classify-this-professional-artist-Can-he-pass-as-Amerindian-in-Latin-America?:

How about this professional dancer from Uzbekistan?:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?260141-Classify-and-guess-this-Native-American-looking-dancer

Finally, can you see this indigenous shaman from Tuva passing among Silvid North American Indians?
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?260740-Classify-this-indigenous-shaman

[Zuh]

ANE is not pure West Eurasian but mixed with East Eurasian right?

Would that make pure Amerindians as genetically West Eurasian as some Turkic Central Asians like Altaian, Kyrgyz, Kazakh? And would this means that Mestizos are closer to 65-70% West Eurasian than 50% unlike Hapas?


According to gedrosida k3 im 65% west Eurasian . I think i would be the perfect Malta boy example.

[Latinus]

Silvids.

[Carlito's Way]

I been to a Native American reservation in the Northern part of the States, and some individuals look very Aralid/South central Siberian. Very smooth reddish/ruddy light brown skin, very straight black hair and massive cheekbones. They look massive, taller and more stocky/build compared Mexicans or Peruvians. Some look like those mongolian wrestlers or Kazakh eagle hunters but with long hair and high nose bridge/proboscis. There was a Northern Han member on Ta who visited a reservation and said that he was confused a native when he was tanned.

Most of those natives are highly mixed, many even mixed with black ancestry
next time go to the reservations of Southwestern USA where its home to the purest Amerindians in the USA