Kurds: State main phenotypes (and where they pass)

[Zroota]

I included all sorts of Kurds, from Syria to Iran.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSNyfuIZArr0dkmDBtFz9hXGFT6Koq W3ddECOP2z46KbOUj8ygT
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTxCrMhbQhKhI-jCH44IrYHeeQDKcfq9y9jhbG2HhXW3xebG1pq
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS20Q-LVrydOQ71rKJIEPLUSihXT0amO4P2EE0Hk2INPWPZ0-6b
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT_JeRnyL6nrNZakOOVrPmLmjcalQV nZwwfM96t1ieLGc9raRhQ
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Kurdish_people_celebrating_Nowruz_2018%2C_Tangi_Sa r_village_%2813970105000310636575780990476714_1382 9%29.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/Kurdish_people_celebrating_Nowruz_2018%2C_Tangi_Sa r_village_%2813970105000310636575780985163970_8560 4%29.jpg
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/IMG-7742.JPG?itok=pjAnGIOm&c=37f0da6e3ac27fc3596fb2ff10ee7ef1
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTbQcJhAz9ypKIHNR-HuJDo7SZDOkV0qL0Bw7Q572-NQgB8_t-A
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRBXN584UGJm_lu4XjYFMtNMBwvac_ Zg_jLFqmF5UGNmwo2ufOI
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRrvdKrMKRpYwfQSFtOMRTYLHVdz6i Q-qKVJ6hLcdNl000cG6pB
https://media.voltron.voanews.com/Drupal/01live-166/styles/sourced/s3/2019-04/314D1B35-A01C-48BA-99D2-D0956F4D90B7.jpg?itok=YLrHv75Z
https://reaction.life/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/GettyImages-643642482-2500x1667.jpg
https://newsmedia.tasnimnews.com/Tasnim/Uploaded/Image/1395/12/20/1395122010501017810230264.jpg
https://media.mehrnews.com/d/2017/03/27/4/2415977.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQhM7Sgoj8zTnawDOiXEkYq9sZ_GAk AIFW50Y3Vf4U9S1_tTd-Y
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRx6Bpjbb1oT6sA12iMzwuBURvJRJ-a9YctmO_p8uLZBZnixzTD
https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_page/public/main-images/000_MV1DD.jpg?itok=6CuK1_2g
https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/turkish_women001.jpg
https://keepingdemocracyalive.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/109132731_mediaitem109132505.jpg
https://kurdistantribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/kurds-peace.jpg

[Kyp]

Robust Iranid, Iranid most prevalent. Some Anatolid.

pass best in Iran

[Zroota]

Bump

[Negah]

Not another one of these threads

Kurds pass best as Kurds


Also, why are Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan, etc on the list? is it for amusement, shock factor or just providing trolls a tool

[lameduck]

Not another one of these threads

Kurds pass best as Kurds


Also, why are Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan, etc on the list? is it for amusement, shock factor or just providing trolls a tool
Why saudia Arabia is wrong ,isn't it from MENA region? also a middle eastern ethnicity provide us nothing in a useless online discussion,if you are passively implying something.

[Oghuz]

Proto iranid
Irano cm
Iranid
Irano nordoid (not presented in the posted pics)

Pass best in Iran.

[hecate]

iran maybe and some faces remind me photos of turks

[Oghuz]

or just providing trolls a tool

that

[porpozontokonto]

Armenid, Iranid proper, Proto Iranid, Corded Nordid

If it wasn't for armenid they could pass in Afghanistan

[Oghuz]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT-UDkKY7zXo9GgYdlULFyDucJubQ0D56vaMUymPBAApBkjcjIc
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT7v16E7yAVFAJnc9_lXD0rQFMagtv 7nG8Vjn95qbGGv1iIb-RS
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQjOH_tIb2N_38do3ee_I7WYg18utL Us8VIMNBhHs_b0T1wze-7
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR0leSLxc12bzDab0fhm6msp20qiOg jUP6l6lVF2wzVUn7I2mvB
https://foreignpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/gettyimages-1130784312.jpg?w=800&h=533&quality=90
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQEykRmEmOPmbdQpcXcz_ip4I7nlqi 3spcFGDxcwO7OtrywR4xF
https://anfenglish.com/uploads/en/articles/2018/11/20181128-20181128-gerilla63a35c-image8a70bb-image.jpg
https://anfturkce.com/uploads/tr/articles/2019/03/20190327-gerilla-kahramanlik-haftasi-demec0a02dd-image.jpg
https://anfturkce.com/uploads/tr/articles/2018/11/20181109-cudi-sehitleri2c92a1-image.jpg
https://rojnews.news/uploads/tr/articles/2019/03/20190307-hpg-botan-da-sehit-duesen-6-gerillanin-kimligini-acikladid9329e-image.jpg
https://m.krdnews.net/sites/default/files/styles/medium/public/2019/08/xkrdnews-1566991599.JPG,qitok=IXo1WY0Q.pagespeed.ic.eso00b2 3xD.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSbhq2SXSGlKbGIXG_57OFBv6898-CbQO-U0HLv-FCQBRCUDKoY

[porpozontokonto]

https://rojnews.news/uploads/tr/articles/2019/03/20190307-hpg-botan-da-sehit-duesen-6-gerillanin-kimligini-acikladid9329e-image.jpg

Lmao the guy on the right is clearly a MİT agent

[kalach]

Proto iranid
Irano cm
Iranid
Irano nordoid (not presented in the posted pics)

Pass best in Iran.

Most Kurds I saw were East alpinid, iranid-armenoid mix, armenoid. I think robust iranid is a minority among them. Nordoiranid is much rare. Kurds mixed with native Anatolian phenos so much.
My paternal grandmother has lots of nordoiranid&proto-iranid mixed relatives including herself. I remember she told they were original Kurds, ones looking like Arabs and Armenians were not original.

[Negah]

Why saudia Arabia is wrong ,isn't it from MENA region? also a middle eastern ethnicity provide us nothing in a useless online discussion,if you are passively implying something.

@lame

MENA is perhaps not as diverse as SA but it is diverse. IMO Saudis and Kurds overlap is a sense that both groups look MENA but tbh, for the most part, they don't look the same. One can draw the same comparison within SA.

That is NW Indians or East Pakistanis look unmistakably South Asian but they don't look like Tamils. Sikhs look SA to me but they have their own look. Just like Bengalis have their own look.

This diversity to me is what makes the world really beautiful.

[lameduck]

@lame

MENA is perhaps not as diverse as SA but it is diverse. IMO Saudis and Kurds overlap is a sense that both groups look MENA but tbh, for the most part, they don't look the same. One can draw the same comparison within SA.

That is NW Indians or East Pakistanis look unmistakably South Asian but they don't look like Tamils. Sikhs look SA to me but they have their own look. Just like Bengalis have their own look.

This diversity to me is what makes the world really beautiful.

fair enough , appologies for miscontruing your post, there is so much trolling on these topics and putting down of others its difficult to filter through genuine argument

yeah ethnicities that live in mountains often times have a unique look to them like Pashtuns/Kurds other Hindukush/Karakorum tribes.

[Zroota]

Not another one of these threads

Kurds pass best as Kurds


Also, why are Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Turkmenistan, etc on the list? is it for amusement, shock factor or just providing trolls a tool
Why are you offended?

To me, Kurds can pass individually in any of these countries (just the same way even some Assyrians can as well). I'm sorry for not providing 'whiter' countries there like Georgia and Greece instead. But I'm sure that it wouldn't be "troll bait" if I included such countries. :picard1:

No, Kurds don't always best pass as Kurds. You're not a pure ethnic snowflake untouched and unmatched by your neighbours. You can pass elsewhere as well. My people included, as well as Turks, Azeris, Greeks and Mongolians....

P.S. A few Kurds definitely can pass as 'light' Pakistanis to me. You're just hard-pressed because Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are 'dark' countries. Just typical OWD mindset.

Here are Kurds that can easily pass in Pakistan:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSCYQpFV37eG4T2H4yXdIEifqDRct7 MGb3WEnbH1ydt9ynus8cL
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQ1nVjFSY6uWXgSAIh-ZYxwOaaM6wz9XyeB6ZD2HVZ8M4J7Cfbf
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS1g0GXKuQLS0xpwILs2N3hKJs3Vkb 9qBI2osJt9kfCZ99Uns6y
https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/images/stories/2018/June/b/Ramin-Hossein-Panahi-Iran-Execute.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQxg23bcQe_Oa26j0jPaD4NkgK3WjH C3AQXbJtOL_z_5D0fcy84
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTXT0fyDJj-0v4HzpptSU4KboET8nGX8-K1fRoIp53mLOm0NMhn
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTVICUwOpQHe80gtMsT8MJ94FqN6-1Lao_KdrBXV0icHqN-lzdD
https://i.postimg.cc/pXSsTZ3J/Untitled.png

I was not "allowed" to post Kurds before because one longtime OWD troll here had panic attacks when his people were displayed as extremely woggy. And I actually fairly included all types of Kurds, from light to dark. But the dark ones gave him brain aneurysms and they were said to be "probably Gypsy-mixed". Lmao. I was even convinced by that dumb idea. Nah, they are all true blue Kurds. And it's not a bad thing. But people love to call you a troll for including their darker types, and get panic attacks about it.

And now, yet again, we are still policed and educated on how Kurds look (despite the immense images of them on the net), where one user here even posted a list of cherrypicked lighter Kurdish soldiers yet again (sorry Meson, but what was the point of posting those CM, Nordid influenced types?). Looks like the spirit of this troll still lives on in some of the people here I guess. Pretty scary.

[Zroota]

Double

[Zoro]

Good job posting a variety of kurds and not just the ones from turkey as I often see. To me kurds are varied enough where they can pass in most of the places you noted with highest overlap in Iran but many can easily pass as various Turks and in Turkmenistan and even Uzbekistan.

The diversity is a reflection of all the genetic inputs to Kurds from Medes Parthians Mesopotamians Zagrosians Caucasians and Turkics

[FinalFlash]

They pass best in Iran, Azerbaijan, and Turkey imo. Secondary passability would be Armenia, Georgia(idk why they never get included in these debates), Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

[Zroota]

Good job posting a variety of kurds and not just the ones from turkey as I often see. To me kurds are varied enough where they can pass in most of the places you noted with highest overlap in Iran but many can easily pass as various Turks and in Turkmenistan and even Uzbekistan.

The diversity is a reflection of all the genetic inputs to Kurds from Medes Parthians Mesopotamians Zagrosians Caucasians and Turkics
And good job for understanding where I am coming from. I just wish more people (not just Kurds) are like you.

Kurds are indeed diverse looking as they're over 35 million. But this forum, only their lighter types are represented and you dare not showcase the more 'ethnic' looking ones. One banned user always presented more Euro looking types and now, a few people want to follow his footsteps as well (look at Negah's response). This thread was a retaliation to such people. And I thought it was just two Kurdish guys (both are banned). But it seems like a few have that mindset as well.

And in respect to my point of "diversity", of course, here are the more Med shifted 'western' look Kurds who pass in Turkey, Lebanon and the Mediterranean and are more 'ambiguous':

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTirJRAQ_uAAEE9XAt7Z4eI_yyvHHB YR0BYma0JWLaK2kD2H7U8
https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7881/46178986915_ce7b8cbbc7.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwkBu8pX4AATEgf.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQA7Nbveiv0pDsib6JAewlSdiypNGa LjanqQC-EB5cNoOovmlJg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTBzfJWIM48NLFpSuehotU7-M_Fw9ZC40D6Nl3a5GXDCyraSr5C
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRAr0JtTwhRnIJzRdYIw0-CvHf_rI56KxcNo63AzG_RBacF-Y_a
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSAuo_M66O90gDICrVkJphhLiE0BvS bHQk8s9yphaOBfp4_2IOn
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRSyTsmG0yVt4GBNsnyduk_XRqLeqQ MrTdLJt500qfLJZ8gTr5C

For every dark or 'Asiatic' looking Kurd, there's always these above types. So there's no problem with what types we can display. They are all Kurds, anyway. The 'dark' Kurd is not gypsy and the 'light' Kurd is not European mixed.

[Negah]

Why are you offended?

To me, Kurds can pass individually in any of these countries (just the same way even some Assyrians can as well). I'm sorry for not providing 'whiter' countries there like Georgia and Greece instead. But I'm sure that it wouldn't be "troll bait" if I included such countries. :picard1:

No, Kurds don't always best pass as Kurds. You're not a pure ethnic snowflake untouched and unmatched by your neighbours. You can pass elsewhere as well. My people included, as well as Turks, Azeris, Greeks and Mongolians....

P.S. A few Kurds definitely can pass as 'light' Pakistanis to me. You're just hard-pressed because Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are 'dark' countries. Just typical OWD mindset.

Here are Kurds that can easily pass in Pakistan:


I was not "allowed" to post Kurds before because one longtime OWD troll here had panic attacks when his people were displayed as extremely woggy. And I actually fairly included all types of Kurds, from light to dark. But the dark ones gave him brain aneurysms and they were said to be "probably Gypsy-mixed". Lmao. I was even convinced by that dumb idea. Nah, they are all true blue Kurds. And it's not a bad thing. But people love to call you a troll for including their darker types, and get panic attacks about it.

And now, yet again, we are still policed and educated on how Kurds look (despite the immense images of them on the net), where one user here even posted a list of cherrypicked lighter Kurdish soldiers yet again (sorry Meson, but what was the point of posting those CM, Nordid influenced types?). Looks like the spirit of this troll still lives on in some of the people here I guess. Pretty scary.

Dude nobody was offended, I am not even Kurd. Furthermore, I sure don't try to whitewash any group or anyone. Show me one instance of that.

Obviously, you don't seem to comprehend my intention. Again I stated Kurds look Like Kurds, there is no whitewashing them, that is just a fact. That is my opinion. I can state my opinions without you becoming sensitive. It is you who got sensitive because I stated my opinion. In addition, I simply stated these types of threads are stupid. Because it invites trolls.

I think the sensitivity on your part indicates you have some agenda where I don't have any agenda.

If you really believe Kurds and tribal Saudis overlap then you and I disagree. It is that simple. You are the one that attacked me. I did not attack. There is no intent of whitewashing the Kurds that is just my opinion.

BTW most of these Kurds that you posted don't look Pakistani IMO.

[Negah]

Good job posting a variety of kurds and not just the ones from turkey as I often see. To me kurds are varied enough where they can pass in most of the places you noted with highest overlap in Iran but many can easily pass as various Turks and in Turkmenistan and even Uzbekistan.

The diversity is a reflection of all the genetic inputs to Kurds from Medes Parthians Mesopotamians Zagrosians Caucasians and Turkics

From MY EXPERIENCE and IMO, Iranian Kurds don't have much overlap with Iranian Turkmens. I have lived in both regions. I think I am more KNOWLEDGEABLE than anybody here. Including the Kurds because most Kurds have no knowledge about the TURKMENS. NO WHITE Washing here FYI. But just stating the facts from a person who has been to both regions. The overlap is some but not significant.

Also, KURDS are not a cohesive group or for that matter, THEY ARE NOT a real ethic group. In Iran, itself Kurds speak 4 different languages that are not intelligible to each other. There is a reason why there has never been a KURDISH country because KURDS do not constitute an ethnicity in the modern sense; however, they are moving in that direction.

[lameduck]

Why are you offended?

To me, Kurds can pass individually in any of these countries (just the same way even some Assyrians can as well). I'm sorry for not providing 'whiter' countries there like Georgia and Greece instead. But I'm sure that it wouldn't be "troll bait" if I included such countries. :picard1:

No, Kurds don't always best pass as Kurds. You're not a pure ethnic snowflake untouched and unmatched by your neighbours. You can pass elsewhere as well. My people included, as well as Turks, Azeris, Greeks and Mongolians....

P.S. A few Kurds definitely can pass as 'light' Pakistanis to me. You're just hard-pressed because Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are 'dark' countries. Just typical OWD mindset.

Here are Kurds that can easily pass in Pakistan:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSCYQpFV37eG4T2H4yXdIEifqDRct7 MGb3WEnbH1ydt9ynus8cL
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQ1nVjFSY6uWXgSAIh-ZYxwOaaM6wz9XyeB6ZD2HVZ8M4J7Cfbf
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS1g0GXKuQLS0xpwILs2N3hKJs3Vkb 9qBI2osJt9kfCZ99Uns6y
https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/images/stories/2018/June/b/Ramin-Hossein-Panahi-Iran-Execute.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQxg23bcQe_Oa26j0jPaD4NkgK3WjH C3AQXbJtOL_z_5D0fcy84
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTXT0fyDJj-0v4HzpptSU4KboET8nGX8-K1fRoIp53mLOm0NMhn
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTVICUwOpQHe80gtMsT8MJ94FqN6-1Lao_KdrBXV0icHqN-lzdD
https://i.postimg.cc/pXSsTZ3J/Untitled.png

I was not "allowed" to post Kurds before because one longtime OWD troll here had panic attacks when his people were displayed as extremely woggy. And I actually fairly included all types of Kurds, from light to dark. But the dark ones gave him brain aneurysms and they were said to be "probably Gypsy-mixed". Lmao. I was even convinced by that dumb idea. Nah, they are all true blue Kurds. And it's not a bad thing. But people love to call you a troll for including their darker types, and get panic attacks about it.

And now, yet again, we are still policed and educated on how Kurds look (despite the immense images of them on the net), where one user here even posted a list of cherrypicked lighter Kurdish soldiers yet again (sorry Meson, but what was the point of posting those CM, Nordid influenced types?). Looks like the spirit of this troll still lives on in some of the people here I guess. Pretty scary.

only these two can , rest no way
he can pass in Punjab
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTXT0fyDJj-0v4HzpptSU4KboET8nGX8-K1fRoIp53mLOm0NMhn
he can pass as pashtun
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQ1nVjFSY6uWXgSAIh-ZYxwOaaM6wz9XyeB6ZD2HVZ8M4J7Cfbf

[lameduck]

Dude nobody was offended, I am not even Kurd. Furthermore, I sure don't try to whitewash any group or anyone. Show me one instance of that.

Obviously, you don't seem to comprehend my intention. Again I stated Kurds look Like Kurds, there is no whitewashing them, that is just a fact. That is my opinion. I can state my opinions without you becoming sensitive. It is you who got sensitive because I stated my opinion. In addition, I simply stated these types of threads are stupid. Because it invites trolls.

I think the sensitivity on your part indicates you have some agenda where I don't have any agenda.

If you really believe Kurds and tribal Saudis overlap then you and i disagree. It is that simple. You are the one that needs to attack me. I did not attack. There is no intent of whitewashing the Kurds that is just my opinion.

BTW most of these Kurds that you posted don't look Pakistan IMO.

i dont think he has an agenda , he has never tried to distance assyrians from any non european population.

the reason I quoted you was because of word "Shock", I mean addition of saudi arabia just to fill 10 spaces might be a "shock" for a inner mena anthrofora clique that is well versed with diveristy of the region, but it is not a "shock" for most of rest 7 billion world, i am talking from an outsiders perspective

[Tigranes]

They pass best in Iran, Azerbaijan, and Turkey imo. Secondary passability would be Armenia, Georgia(idk why they never get included in these debates), Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan.

Really? Which ones in the OP do you think can pass in Armenia/Georgia?

[Oghuz]

Here are Kurds that can easily pass in Pakistan:



All of them except one have the same skull structure as any other Iranid type despite the dark hair color.

Pakistan is ethnically not a established country, one can pass a nordid to a negroid in Pakistan similar to Brazil. Its a large and diverse country.

Your logic failed miserably.


sorry Meson, but what was the point of posting those CM, Nordid influenced types

Because you intentionally avoided that very existent type.

[Oghuz]

From MY EXPERIENCE and IMO, Iranian Kurds don't have much overlap with Iranian Turkmens. I have lived in both regions. I think I am more KNOWLEDGEABLE than anybody here. Including the Kurds because most Kurds have no knowledge about the TURKMENS. NO WHITE Washing here FYI. But just stating the facts from a person who has been to both regions. The overlap is some but not significant.

Also, KURDS are not a cohesive group or for that matter, THEY ARE NOT a real ethic group. In Iran, itself Kurds speak 4 different languages are not intelligible to each other. There is a reason why there has never been a KURDISH country because KURDS do not constitute an ethnicity in the modern sense; however, they are moving in that direction.

I would have to disagree a bit. I am quarter Kurd myself(maternal), I know how strong sense of Kurdish nationalism most Kurds have these days and its only growing.

[Reis-i Cumhur]

They look pretty much Mesopotamian zombies.
They can not even pass as an Armenian
Edit:I have changed my mind They look iranian for sure.

[Negah]

I would have to disagree a bit. I am quarter Kurd myself(maternal), I know how strong sense of Kurdish nationalism most Kurds have these days and its only growing.

As I stated there signs that it is moving in that direction mainly in Iraq and perhaps Syria. In Turkey and Iran, they are other factors playing. Mainly two powerful united nations with strong military forces, large Kurdish communities in non-Kurdish cities and Kurdish regional economy dependent on the central states.

But Kurdish unity or coalition is not here and it may never come into fruition, if it ever does it will change the map of the region dramatically.

[FinalFlash]

Really? Which ones in the OP do you think can pass in Armenia/Georgia?

Hard to pick em out but there are individuals in these photos who wouldn't stick out much further north though obviously as a group they look distinct.

[FinalFlash]

They look pretty much Mesopotamian zombies.
They can not even pass as an Armenian
Edit:I have changed my mind They look iranian for sure.

As a group they look distinct to Armenians or Turks for sure.

[lameduck]

As a group they look distinct to Armenians or Turks for sure.

but they are just a section of Kurdish diversity there are 35 million of them , Hadouken has more detailed gallery on anthroworld

[FinalFlash]

but they are just a section of Kurdish diversity there are 35 million of them , Hadouken has more detailed gallery on anthroworld

The ones in the OP is the set I was referring to.

[Reis-i Cumhur]

As a group they look distinct to Armenians or Turks for sure.

They don't look Caucasian Turks or Armenians.Caucasians are pretty light people They have nothing to do with Kurds.
Well Eastern Armenians are genetically Iranians(or Iranized Armenians) So maybe you are right.

[FinalFlash]

They don't look Caucasian Turks or Armenians.Caucasians are pretty light people They have nothing to do with Kurds.
Well Eastern Armenians are genetically Iranians(or Iranized Armenians) So maybe you are right.

I don't understand what you're insinuating when you say Eastern Armenians or Caucasian Armenians.

[Negah]

As a group they look distinct to Armenians or Turks for sure.

I agree.

[Marmara]

There was one British officer who visited Kurdish areas during Ottomans, who was shocked by phenotypes and wrote about how many could pass for British if they were dressed in British style.

Unfortunately i couldn't find his name.

[Bosniensis]

Medes aka Persians

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Median_empire_map.png

[Negah]

Eastern Armenians are genetically Iranians(or Iranized Armenians)

do you mind to share genetic results to prove this

[Marmara]

In Turkey, alongside regular Kurmanji Kurds we also have Zazas, people who are usually considered a Kurdish subethnicity, but their language (Zazaki) is a different Iranic language, not part of Kurdish dialects.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazas

[Oghuz]

As a group they look distinct to Armenians or Turks for sure.

Almost all of Kurds are in meso to dolichocephalic range while on average Turkish phenos are brachycephalic driven from Armenoid, Alpine, Anatolid range with Turanid layer.

[Oghuz]

As I stated there signs that it is moving in that direction mainly in Iraq and perhaps Syria. In Turkey and Iran, they are other factors playing. Mainly two powerful united nations with strong military forces, large Kurdish communities in non-Kurdish cities and Kurdish regional economy dependent on the central states.

But Kurdish unity or coalition is not here and it may never come into fruition, if it ever does it will change the map of the region dramatically.

Kurds in Turkiye will become majority group in next 15-20 years just by breeding at the same rate that they are breeding at right now so they do not need to get independence from Turkiye. They will become the dominant group in the country by themselves.

[Negah]

Kurds in Turkiye will become majority group in next 15-20 years just by breeding at the same rate that they are breeding at right now so they do not need to get independence from Turkiye. They will become the dominant group in the country by themselves.



These things will be interesting to watch.

[Kyp]

In Turkey, alongside regular Kurmanji Kurds we also have Zazas, people who are usually considered a Kurdish subethnicity, but their language (Zazaki) is a different Iranic language, not part of Kurdish dialects.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazas

Zazas seem to be slightly mixed with Turks. Does this have any historical reason or just geographical closeness?

[Kyp]

They don't look Caucasian Turks or Armenians.Caucasians are pretty light people They have nothing to do with Kurds.
Well Eastern Armenians are genetically Iranians(or Iranized Armenians) So maybe you are right.

You as an Azerbaijani Turk are probably way closer to Kurds than Eastern Armenians are.

[Marmara]

Zazas seem to be slightly mixed with Turks. Does this have any historical reason or just geographical closeness?

They are genetically identical to Kurds, but some might have mixed with Turks since they live west of Kurmanjis.

[Ujary]

Kurdish population is highly exaggerated.

In Turkey, the state keeps track of citizen's parental hometown (kütük) which is even written on ID cards. Kütük is passed to the next generation in a similar way to surnames. A woman changes her kütük to her husband's and children take their father's kütük. Hence, you can easily count how many people from a sprecific region there are in Turkey. Turkish Statistical Institute (TÜİK) shares this information every year with other demographic statistics.

In 2019, Turkey's population is 82.003.882. Total number of people whose kütük is one of Tunceli, Bingöl, Muş, Ağrı, Van, Bitlis, Diyarbakır, Adıyaman, Mardin, Şırnak, Siirt, Hakkari and Batman is 12.826.054. Şanlıurfa is a mixed town where Arabs, Kurds and Turks live their populations are very close to each other so when we add 1/3 of number of people whose kütük is from Şanlıurfa, we get 13.749.617. This population is not based on ethnicity but region. Thus, local Arabs and Turks in these cities are also included. For example, Arabs are still majority in half of Mardin and Siirt. Moreover, no distinction between Zazas and Kurds are made.

To sum up, Turks from these cities, all Turkish Kurds, all Turkish Zazas and all Turkish Arabs constitute 16.77% of Turkey's population. So, Kurds are not demographic threat to Turkey. Furthermore, assimilation is still a problem for Kurds. Rawest Research conducted a survey in 4 largest cities in the region: Diyarbakır, Mardin, Van and Şanlıurfa. The survey was about use of Kurdish language in everyday life. Participants are young adults (18-30 years old). According to the results:

1) 18% of Kurdish young adults have full proficiency in Kurdish and they also know how to read and write in Kurdish.
2) 26% of Kurdish young adults have full proficiency in Kurdish but they are illiterate in Kurdish.
3) 24,5% of Kurdish young adults can understand Kurdish but they cannot speak in Kurdish.
4) 17% of Kurdish young adults somewhat understand Kurdish and they cannot speak in Kurdish.
5) 14,5% of Kurdish young adults know a few Kurdish words or they don't know any.

In summary, only 44% of Kurdish young adults have proficiency in Kurdish. The responses to the question "How frequently do you speak in Kurdish with your friends?" are:
1) 15% stated "frequently".
2) 28% stated "sometimes".
3) 40% stated "rarely".
4) 17% stated "never".

The research can be found in the link: https://rawest.com.tr/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/DilYuvadir_infografik.pdf

[Zroota]

Dude nobody was offended, I am not even Kurd. Furthermore, I sure don't try to whitewash any group or anyone. Show me one instance of that.
You were put off when I included 'darker' countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, but not Med Islands. How come? A legit Kurdish user here (Zoro) did not have anything against me and applauded me for including all types of Kurds. He didn't protest at the fact that I had these countries.


Obviously, you don't seem to comprehend my intention. Again I stated Kurds look Like Kurds, there is no whitewashing them, that is just a fact. That is my opinion. I can state my opinions without you becoming sensitive. It is you who got sensitive because I stated my opinion. In addition, I simply stated these types of threads are stupid. Because it invites trolls.
Kurds LOOK like Kurds, because they are Kurds. But I'm sure you know that all ethnic groups can look like, or pass in, other ones. You are sensitive too. In this case, with trolls. I am not sure why you're giving them a high liege? Forget about them.


I think the sensitivity on your part indicates you have some agenda where I don't have any agenda.
You were hard-pressed to see Pakistan and Saudi Arabia there. You were paranoid and disgruntled. And I am the one with the agenda? Again, a Kurdish user here stood up with my position. Would your reaction be the same if I included Greece and Romania instead? Hm...


If you really believe Kurds and tribal Saudis overlap then you and I disagree. It is that simple. You are the one that attacked me. I did not attack. There is no intent of whitewashing the Kurds that is just my opinion.
Who said they overlap? This is a superficial thread about passing. Again, you seem hard-pressed about Kurds being equated with Saudis, but not Med Islanders (since I included them). I can clearly see that you have a bias. How come you didn't protest about Med Islands being there? Kurds don't overlap with them as well. Just saying.


BTW most of these Kurds that you posted don't look Pakistani IMO.
Your opinion. In my opinion, they do. If you're not a Kurd, then you're no more 'right' than me.


All of them except one have the same skull structure as any other Iranid type despite the dark hair color.
Okay, so you agree here.


Pakistan is ethnically not a established country, one can pass a nordid to a negroid in Pakistan similar to Brazil. Its a large and diverse country.
And? This proves my point that Kurds and even Assyrians can pass there.


Your logic failed miserably.
So did your hypocrisy and back-pedalling. We inadvertently agreed above and now you want to take a bash at me because I said Kurds can pass in Pakistan. Your bias agenda is clearly apparent.


Because you intentionally avoided that very existent type.
No. You were hard-pressed to see that Irano Nordic-CM were nonexistent in my opening post (hence your sour, unfriendly strawman reply up there). You always conveniently choose and cherrypick the lighter CM types to whitewash Iranians. I do not. You can see MOST Kurds do NOT look like that. And my post was focusing on the generic Kurdish look.

Again, an actual Kurd here Zoro commended my unbiased, fair representation of them. Sucks that I didn't include your beloved, light-skinned, Euro looking types that you seem to frequently post here (alongside that banned user). And sucks even more that you're making an enemy of me because of my visual perception of Kurds (so much for your "I respect Assyrians and their culture", because recently you have rarely shown me respect for my opinion).


but they are just a section of Kurdish diversity there are 35 million of them , Hadouken has more detailed gallery on anthroworld
Yep. Whitewashed, European-looking, handpicked Kurds that look like the Med looking ones that I posted in the previous page.

I am including the most average types:

https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_page/public/column-image/Kurds%28AFP%29_0.jpg?itok=PgxN657d
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/10/17/opinion/17graeberWeb/17graeberWeb-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
https://www.middleeasteye.net/sites/default/files/styles/article_page/public/main-images/000_SN3B9.jpg?itok=yDSiX4Lf
https://www-images.christianitytoday.com/images/79024.jpg?w=600
https://iranhr.net/media/content/images/IHR_copy2_rJRL8VT.jpg.885x520_q85_box-0%2C0%2C884%2C520_crop_detail_upscale.jpg
https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/files/live/sites/almonitor/files/images/almpics/2017/08/RTS1C25V.jpg
https://geopoliticalfutures.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/iran-kurdistan-kurds-militant.jpg

[Nomansman]

Why are you offended?

To me, Kurds can pass individually in any of these countries (just the same way even some Assyrians can as well). I'm sorry for not providing 'whiter' countries there like Georgia and Greece instead. But I'm sure that it wouldn't be "troll bait" if I included such countries. :picard1:

No, Kurds don't always best pass as Kurds. You're not a pure ethnic snowflake untouched and unmatched by your neighbours. You can pass elsewhere as well. My people included, as well as Turks, Azeris, Greeks and Mongolians....

P.S. A few Kurds definitely can pass as 'light' Pakistanis to me. You're just hard-pressed because Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are 'dark' countries. Just typical OWD mindset.

Here are Kurds that can easily pass in Pakistan:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSCYQpFV37eG4T2H4yXdIEifqDRct7 MGb3WEnbH1ydt9ynus8cL
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQ1nVjFSY6uWXgSAIh-ZYxwOaaM6wz9XyeB6ZD2HVZ8M4J7Cfbf
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcS1g0GXKuQLS0xpwILs2N3hKJs3Vkb 9qBI2osJt9kfCZ99Uns6y
https://www.ncr-iran.org/en/images/stories/2018/June/b/Ramin-Hossein-Panahi-Iran-Execute.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQxg23bcQe_Oa26j0jPaD4NkgK3WjH C3AQXbJtOL_z_5D0fcy84
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTXT0fyDJj-0v4HzpptSU4KboET8nGX8-K1fRoIp53mLOm0NMhn
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTVICUwOpQHe80gtMsT8MJ94FqN6-1Lao_KdrBXV0icHqN-lzdD
https://i.postimg.cc/pXSsTZ3J/Untitled.png

I was not "allowed" to post Kurds before because one longtime OWD troll here had panic attacks when his people were displayed as extremely woggy. And I actually fairly included all types of Kurds, from light to dark. But the dark ones gave him brain aneurysms and they were said to be "probably Gypsy-mixed". Lmao. I was even convinced by that dumb idea. Nah, they are all true blue Kurds. And it's not a bad thing. But people love to call you a troll for including their darker types, and get panic attacks about it.

And now, yet again, we are still policed and educated on how Kurds look (despite the immense images of them on the net), where one user here even posted a list of cherrypicked lighter Kurdish soldiers yet again (sorry Meson, but what was the point of posting those CM, Nordid influenced types?). Looks like the spirit of this troll still lives on in some of the people here I guess. Pretty scary.

Gotta be honest with you now....none of these people look very paki. They dont even look pashtun even. passes probably better as bandaris or balochis(they can be pretty dark though)

[porpozontokonto]

Kurds in Turkiye will become majority group in next 15-20 years just by breeding at the same rate that they are breeding at right now so they do not need to get independence from Turkiye. They will become the dominant group in the country by themselves.

They are mostly assimilated already. Most of the Kurds within young generations can't even speak Kurdish. Half of the Kurdish population in Turkey are born in western cities. They will be assimilated no matter what.

[Zroota]

Gotta be honest with you now....none of these people look very paki. They dont even look pashtun even. passes probably better as bandaris or balochis(they can be pretty dark though)
I guess that's your opinion, which is fine. I know many 'light' Pakis here who look like these Kurds. They wouldn't look out of place in Pakistan, which is a diverse country (even Meson points that out). Just the same way the Med looking Kurds in the previous page look, and can easily pass in, the Levant, Turkey and Med Islands. Pashtuns and Kurds in here are nearly identical looking, and generally look similar in my eyes. Perhaps because we have more Iraqi and Iranian Kurds, who may naturally look similar to the quintessential Indo-Iranian types?

[Nomansman]

I guess that's your opinion, which is fine. I know many 'light' Pakis here who look like these Kurds. They wouldn't look out of place in Pakistan, which is a diverse country (even Meson points that out). Just the same way the Med looking Kurds in the previous page look, and can easily pass in, the Levant, Turkey and Med Islands. Pashtuns and Kurds in here are nearly identical looking, and generally look similar in my eyes. Perhaps because we have more Iraqi and Iranian Kurds, who may naturally look similar to the quintessential Indo-Iranian types?

Apart from many of my family(and some other pashtuns/afghans) kurds, turks and afghans can many times look similiar to each other here.

Punjabis however just look south asian compared to many pics posted on the internet

[Oghuz]

Okay, so you agree here.


I agree that the hand picked dark kurds that you posted have Iranid like skull shape despite the darkest possible skin you could find on google pics. They are still Iranian people by their bone structure. Skin color does not matter.





And? This proves my point that Kurds and even Assyrians can pass there.




Proto Nordids, Atlanto Meds, Iranids and Negritos, Austrailoids, Turanids can also pass there. Anyone can pass in that large and diverse country.



No. You were hard-pressed to see that Irano Nordic-CM were nonexistent in my opening post (hence your sour, unfriendly strawman reply up there). You always conveniently choose and cherrypick the lighter CM types to whitewash Iranians. I do not. You can see MOST Kurds do NOT look like that. And my post was focusing on the generic Kurdish look.



My mother is half Sorani kurd, my grand father was from Sanandaj, the home of Kurds in their racial homeland of Rojhilat inside Iran. I do not have to agree with anyone to be the "Kurd".



No. You were hard-pressed to see that Irano Nordic-CM were nonexistent in my opening post


Why did you intentionally exclude the very existent Irano nordoid type Kurds ?

Pics I posted, which triggered you, are of like 75-80 % of the dark haired Kurds, I could have posted a full on dark blonde types as well but I am a realist and I do not care about skin color, I am myself a swarthy MENA looking man.



You always conveniently choose and cherrypick the lighter CM types to whitewash Iranians. I do not. You can see MOST Kurds do NOT look like that. And my post was focusing on the generic Kurdish look.



Here are my recent threads about Iranians. Most of the pics are of darker haired type Iranians. Show me the evidence that I post only nordoid types.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303788-Classify-swarthy-Iranian-men

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313992-Iranian-Female-Journalists-Hosts-Writers



Sucks that I didn't include your beloved, light-skinned, Euro looking types



I have always maintained that no Iranic person can look european. Your accusation is just baseless.



And sucks even more that you're making an enemy of me because of my visual perception of Kurds (so much for your "I respect Assyrians and their culture", because recently you have rarely shown me respect for my opinion).



I do not take internet that seriously that I will make friends and enemies here.

And yes I respect assyrians but you are an individual apparently with an agenda which is sad but OK.


Gotta be honest with you now....none of these people look very paki. They dont even look pashtun even.

Yes the skull shape is West Asian type even among the darkest possible types. They pass best as what they are like everyone else posted here.

[Oghuz]

They are genetically identical to Kurds, but some might have mixed with Turks since they live west of Kurmanjis.

I met a Zazaki man in France from Dersim region. He was like a big Kurdish nationalism larper, kinda toxic type which I disliked. I think these people identify as proper Kurds right but are not ? He looked like an Armenian.

[lameduck]

I agree that the hand picked dark kurds that you posted have Iranid like skull shape despite the darkest possible skin you could find on google pics. They are still Iranian people by their bone structure. Skin color does not matter.




Proto Nordids, Atlanto Meds, Iranids and Negritos, Austrailoids, Turanids can also pass there. Anyone can pass in that large and diverse country.



My mother is half Sorani kurd, my grand father was from Sanandaj, the home of Kurds in their racial homeland of Rojhilat inside Iran. I do not have to agree with anyone to be the "Kurd".



Why did you intentionally exclude the very existent Irano nordoid type Kurds ?

Pics I posted, which triggered you, are of like 75-80 % of the dark haired Kurds, I could have posted a full on dark blonde types as well but I am a realist and I do not care about skin color, I am myself a swarthy MENA looking man.



Here are my recent threads about Iranians. Most of the pics are of darker haired type Iranians. Show me the evidence that I post only nordoid types.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303788-Classify-swarthy-Iranian-men

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313992-Iranian-Female-Journalists-Hosts-Writers



I have always maintained that no Iranic person can look european. Your accusation is just baseless.



I do not take internet that seriously that I will make friends and enemies here.

And yes I respect assyrians but you are an individual apparently with an agenda which is sad but OK.



Yes the skull shape is West Asian type even among the darkest possible types. They pass best as what they are like everyone else posted here.

there is huge diversity but Punjabis/pashtuns/sindhis/balochs/dards often time show a look that is quite recongnizebale

e.g these two pakistani punjabis look very pakistani punjabis

https://alchetron.com/cdn/ch-nazar-muhammad-gondal-8b0a7562-15ea-4ff8-83a2-1ccb3062353-resize-750.jpeg
https://i2.wp.com/lahoreworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Pervez_Malik.jpg

[Negah]

You were put off when I included 'darker' countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, but not Med Islands. How come? A legit Kurdish user here (Zoro) did not have anything against me and applauded me for including all types of Kurds. He didn't protest at the fact that I had these countries.




Look at my other posts before accusing of trying to whitewash the Kurds. I just stated the facts. It seems you conveniently misquoted me since I wrote "Turkmenistan and etc". Also when one of the Armenian user / final flash mentioned that the Kurds don't really look like "the Turks and Armenians", I agreed with him. That surely is not the behavior of a whitewasher since both Armenians and Turks tend to be on the lighter spectrum of the skin color in the region. In fact, Both are lighter than the Kurds and Iranians.

As I said it seems to me that you are making assumptions and you know what happens when you do that. You make an ASS out of yourself and me.

[Negah]

You were hard-pressed to see Pakistan and Saudi Arabia there. You were paranoid and disgruntled. And I am the one with the agenda? Again, a Kurdish user here stood up with my position. Would your reaction be the same if I included Greece and Romania instead? Hm...



No, I am not hard-pressed because Pakistanis and Saudis are darker than the Kurds, I did not mention their skin colors, you have made an assumption. Which again is erroneous and incorrect. Again then why you have not mentioned the Turkmens. Also, Why not mention me when I agreed with Finalflash about Armenians and the Turks.

Frankly, it seems to me you have an agenda. I don't. That is our difference.

[Negah]

Your opinion. In my opinion, they do. If you're not a Kurd, then you're no more 'right' than me.

Even Lameduck who is a Pakistani agreed with me. I am not so sure why you are even debating me. I even wrote IMO why are you so biased and angry. Have you had a bad experience with Kurdish members on this forum? This is insane. Please sit back and reflect on your comments.

[Negah]

Who said they overlap? This is a superficial thread about passing. Again, you seem hard-pressed about Kurds being equated with Saudis, but not Med Islanders (since I included them). I can clearly see that you have a bias. How come you didn't protest about Med Islands being there? Kurds don't overlap with them as well. Just saying.]

To me, passing requires some good overlap. Then we can all pass everywhere.

It seems that your definition may be different than mine. I really don't know why I am debating this with you. Again, it seems that you have had some issues with Kurdish members here.

I lived among the Kurds (Iranian Kurdistan city of Sanandaj). I am not an expert. But I am more knowledgeable than most members. IMO It behooves you to listen to me rather than argue with me. You and other members may learn something.

[Negah]

I met a Zazaki man in France from Dersim region. He was like a big Kurdish nationalism larper, kinda toxic type which I disliked. I think these people identify as proper Kurds right but are not ? He looked like an Armenian.

Interesting

[Zroota]

I agree that the hand picked dark kurds that you posted have Iranid like skull shape despite the darkest possible skin you could find on google pics. They are still Iranian people by their bone structure. Skin color does not matter.
Who said they are not Iranian, or aren't an Iranian type of peoples? This post was about passing Kurds, not making Kurds less Iranic or anything in the likes.


Proto Nordids, Atlanto Meds, Iranids and Negritos, Austrailoids, Turanids can also pass there. Anyone can pass in that large and diverse country.
And? Instead of arguing with me about it or challenging me, why can't you just agree? And I did state later that Pakistan has diverse type of people where even Assyrians and Lebanese can pass there.


My mother is half Sorani kurd, my grand father was from Sanandaj, the home of Kurds in their racial homeland of Rojhilat inside Iran. I do not have to agree with anyone to be the "Kurd".
What are you on about here? You didn't answer my question that you quoted.


Why did you intentionally exclude the very existent Irano nordoid type Kurds ?
Good question. They are just not very common. Not saying they are very rare, but they are not the average Kurdish type. I mean, if I presented Celts in my post, of course I would more focus on the common, North Atlantid and Anglo-Saxon type, as instead of the 'dark' Celtic, Rowan Atkinson/Sean Connery types (which exist, but are rare). I think you should have good faith in others. You think, if somebody doesn't present 'light people', we are making an enemy of them or something and want to portray them negatively. Which is something I do NOT do here. Though this is not say that others don't do it.


Pics I posted, which triggered you, are of like 75-80 % of the dark haired Kurds, I could have posted a full on dark blonde types as well but I am a realist and I do not care about skin color, I am myself a swarthy MENA looking man.
Well, you're the one with gave me a negative reaction (alongside Negah). If you were a realist, you should've extended my thread by posting average looking Kurds that look like yourself (most do so), not the Irano-Nordoid types which are rare. Zoro says some Turanid Kurdish/Iranian types exist too. But you never include them. How come?


Here are my recent threads about Iranians. Most of the pics are of darker haired type Iranians. Show me the evidence that I post only nordoid types.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303788-Classify-swarthy-Iranian-men

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313992-Iranian-Female-Journalists-Hosts-Writers
The problem isn't that you commonly post Nordic types. That's fine, really. But the problem is when you say Irano-Nordoids only pass in Iran and can't pass in Europe. That's just laughable and even other users picked up on this. Yes, your Irano-Nordic types do look Iranian. But they can pass in Europe too, considering Europe has so many Nordic types and is probably the birthplace of the Nordic race. And when I say this, you go with your typical 'attack tactics' where you say we are 'eurowashing'. Um, no, if you're fairly white looking and racially Caucasoid, you can pass in Europe too. That's my only problem with your posts, really. I am actually not against you posting Iranic Nordic types.


I have always maintained that no Iranic person can look european. Your accusation is just baseless.
Which is as BASELESS as my my accusation. No, you are not a distinct looking group of race untouched by anybody. Some of your people can pass in Europe, just the same way that some can pass in South Asia. Spare me the holier-than-thou, "my people look like my people" attitude. This ethnic or racial patriotism is utterly disgusting and arrogant. Even I can admit that some Assyrians can pass elsewhere. My people are not above anybody when it comes to their looks. Nobody really is.


And yes I respect assyrians but you are an individual apparently with an agenda which is sad but OK.
I'm very sorry that I didn't include your favourite, much-worshipped Nordic Kurds. I am sorry that I featured generic or average looking Kurds, that even a Kurd here (Zoro) applauded me for me unbiased approach. Of course, I am the one with the agenda here. :picard1:


Look at my other posts before accusing of trying to whitewash the Kurds. I just stated the facts. It seems you conveniently misquoted me since I wrote "Turkmenistan and etc". Also when one of the Armenian user / final flash mentioned that the Kurds don't really look like "the Turks and Armenians", I agreed with him. That surely is not the behavior of a whitewasher since both Armenians and Turks tend to be on the lighter spectrum of the skin color in the region. In fact, Both are lighter than the Kurds and Iranians.

As I said it seems to me that you are making assumptions and you know what happens when you do that. You make an ASS out of yourself and me.
How is not including something you said "misquoting"? You need to learn the meaning. And what is with your arrogance?

And so you say Kurds don't look like Turks and Armenians. Okay, cool. But I was responding to one of your post. I am not an analyst where I have to go through everything you say in a large thread. My main focus anyway was that you seemed irked when I included Pakis, Saudis and Turkmens. I was just addressing that specific part.


No, I am not hard-pressed because Pakistanis and Saudis are darker than the Kurds, I did not mention their skin colors, you have made an assumption. Which again is erroneous and incorrect. Again then why you have not mentioned the Turkmens. Also, Why not mention me when I agreed with Finalflash about Armenians and the Turks.

Frankly, it seems to me you have an agenda. I don't. That is our difference.
What is my agenda? Including Saudi and Pakistani, and not Greece or Bulgaria? *sigh*

Look bub, I didn't come across your post agreeing with Final Flash. If you were not hard-pressed then that's good and I guess we misunderstood each other and got off on the wrong foot. Again, read above, it's not fair to bring up your agreement with Final Flash when I did not come across it, as I was merely quoting your earlier post (and thought you didn't post anymore). This thread is huge with so many pics and quotes. You know that I can easily miss a few posts here and there.


Even Lameduck who is a Pakistani agreed with me. I am not so sure why you are even debating me. I even wrote IMO why are you so biased and angry. Have you had a bad experience with Kurdish members on this forum? This is insane. Please sit back and reflect on your comments.
Such a racist, degrading mindset. Because I say Kurds look like Pakistanis, I am looking down upon them. :picard1:

Awesome. So if I had great experience with Kurds, therefore they must look like Germans. If I did not, they look like South Asians. Lmao. Your logic is risible and worthy of condemnation. And I thought you were rather civil and rational minded.

I have seen enough Pakistanis and Kurds to make a judgement. Actually, certain South Asians have private messaged me saying that they dare not pass Pakis as Kurds or Iranians (and vice versa) in fear of Iranic "racialists" calling them OWD for doing so. Lol.


To me, passing requires some good overlap. Then we can all pass everywhere.
Fair enough...


It seems that your definition may be different than mine. I really don't know why I am debating this with you. Again, it seems that you have had some issues with Kurdish members here.
Well yeah, one Turkish Kurd who always posted Euro looking Med Kurds, whilst brushing off darker Kurds as "gypsy admixed" and insulting you to the core if you said Kurds look like Iranians (to the point where he got permabanned). But of course, he doesn't have an agenda and I do.

Look at Zoro's comment in this thread. How come he doesn't have an issue with my Kurdish photo collection? Because he can see that I included all types of Kurds. You're making an enemy of me for NO REASON.


I lived among the Kurds (Iranian Kurdistan city of Sanandaj). I am not an expert. But I am more knowledgeable than most members. IMO It behooves you to listen to me rather than argue with me. You and other members may learn something.
Listen to you about what? What did I say or do that was so wrong and erroneous? Please enlighten me.

Kurds are diverse looking, from Iranid, Armenoid and even Turanid types to Med and Irano-Nordic types (though I would say Iranid and Armenoid are more common). Do you disagree with that?

[Kamal900]

They pass the best in Iran as mountain Iranid types. Other than Iran, they fit best in Turkey, Afghanistan(Tajiks and Pashtuns mostly) and even among Northern Syrian Arabs and Turkmen populace of the middle east. Only few individuals can pass in the Arabian peninsula. As a whole, they don't look like Palestinians or Jordanians or even the Lebanese for that matter.

[Ylla]

I think Turkey, Iran, maybe south Europe too individually
I included all sorts of Kurds, from Syria to Iran.


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRBXN584UGJm_lu4XjYFMtNMBwvac_ Zg_jLFqmF5UGNmwo2ufOI
Oh my heart, what a sweet boy :love0033:

[Negah]

Such a racist, degrading mindset. Because I say Kurds look like Pakistanis, I am looking down upon them. :picard1:

Awesome. So if I had great experience with Kurds, therefore they must look like Germans. If I did not, they look like South Asians. Lmao. Your logic is risible and worthy of condemnation. And I thought you were rather civil and rational minded.





What is wrong with you? Are you okay? What is the deal with your perpetual fixation with skin color? You are the RACIST here I am not.

When did I say Pakistanis and Saudis don't look Kurdish people because of their skin color? Again you are the one who is making the assumption and surmising that the difference is due to skin color. Then how about the Turkmens. Are Turkmens darker than the Kurds? It is the facial features that make these groups distinct.

[Negah]

I have seen enough Pakistanis and Kurds to make a judgement. Actually, certain South Asians have private messaged me saying that they dare not pass Pakis as Kurds or Iranians (and vice versa) in fear of Iranic "racialists" calling them OWD for doing so. Lol..

Look a lot of MENA people think they can pass in Southern Europe and especially among the Greeks and Italians. Do they? I bet the Greek and Italian users are pretty amazed at the persistence of these people.

BTW I really don't care if all of South Asia passes among Iranian. There is no award awaiting them.

[Negah]

Well yeah, one Turkish Kurd who always posted Euro looking Med Kurds, whilst brushing off darker Kurds as "gypsy admixed" and insulting you to the core if you said Kurds look like Iranians (to the point where he got permabanned). But of course, he doesn't have an agenda and I do.

Look at Zoro's comment in this thread. How come he doesn't have an issue with my Kurdish photo collection? Because he can see that I included all types of Kurds. You're making an enemy of me for NO REASON.

Then you do have an agenda and apparently that user got under your skin. I am not that Kurdish user. I am not here to defend or defame him.

I did not have any issues with your pictures either. When did I object to them?

With my initial comment, I just mentioned these types of threads are useless and that set you off.

[Negah]

Look at Zoro's comment in this thread.

I don't know who Zoro is and I don't have an opinion on him. However, FYI I have seen him make some bizarre and strange pronouncements and comments.

[lameduck]

Look a lot of MENA people think they can pass in Southern Europe and especially among the Greeks and Italians. Do they? I bet the Greek and Italian users are pretty amazed at the persistence of these people.

BTW I really don't care if all of South Asia passes among Iranian. There is no award awaiting them.

I can count on my hand times when I have seen a Pakistani member saying a MENA can pass in his country , its all the time MENAs who come to threads of various types of Punjabis /pashtuns /sindhis etc saying they can pass among them , than there were some MENAs who used the card of "pass" among them as some sort of veto on pheno of other regions and than there were MENAs who used to reduce the look of other regions in "desired" limit by denying diversity of other regions where only in their "subjective minds" , an overlap can occur to a untrained eyes on a multethnic boards with cross race effects.

[Negah]

I can count on my hand times when I have seen a Pakistani member saying a MENA can pass in his country , its all the time MENAs who come to threads of various types of Punjabis /pashtuns /sindhis etc saying they can pass among them , than there were some MENAs who used the card of "pass" among them as some sort of veto on pheno of other regions and than there were MENAs who used to reduce the look of other regions in "desired" limit by denying diversity of other regions where only in their "subjective minds" , an overlap can occur to a untrained eyes on a multethnic boards with cross race effects.

I don't have any idea what is the source of his comments. But apparently The Turkish Kurd who was a member here got under Shelati skin and my initial comment angered Shelati. Then Shelati keeps thinking I am trying to whitewash the Kurd which I am not.

I don't want to defend or defame the former banned user since he is not here to defend himself, but it seems to me Shelati has had some issues with this person.

[lameduck]

I don't have any idea what is the source of his comments. But apparently The Turkish Kurd who was a member here got under Shelati skin and my initial comment angered Shelati. Then Shelati keeps thinking I am trying to whitewash the Kurd.

I don't want to defend or defame the former banned user since he is not here to defend himself, but it seems to me Shelati has had some issues with this person.

Well that kurdish user have appologized for his behaviour and more than 70% of threads on his forums are related to Pakistan, also these ultimately are online discussions you can hang someone for saying anything here

but shelati thinks these paki girls like these look MENAs , but they look paki to me and I will never say they look MENA, I have no fear of anyone that i am not saying they look MENA.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?314394-Classify-Paki-girls

[Negah]

Well that kurdish user have appologized for his behaviour and more than 70% of threads on his forums are related to Pakistan, also these ultimately are online discussions you can hang someone for saying anything here

but shelati thinks these paki girls like these look MENAs , but they look paki to me and I will never say they look MENA, I have no fear of anyone that i am not saying they look MENA.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?314394-Classify-Paki-girls

I think most people think most lighter Pakistanis look MENA. TBH they all look mostly Pakistani and fit their diversity rather nicely.

[lameduck]

I think most people think most lighter Pakistanis look MENA. TBH they all look Pakistani.

exactly , where I live there is not a big Pakistani community and a large arab community and more than 50% of Pakistani Punjabis are considered arabs for all pracitical purposes and they look run of the mill Punjabis , but most middle easterners dont have problem with this , since there are middle easterners here who associate more with Pakistanis than even other MENAs.

[Zoro]

Who said they are not Iranian, or aren't an Iranian type of peoples? This post was about passing Kurds, not making Kurds less Iranic or anything in the likes.


And? Instead of arguing with me about it or challenging me, why can't you just agree? And I did state later that Pakistan has diverse type of people where even Assyrians and Lebanese can pass there.


What are you on about here? You didn't answer my question that you quoted.


Good question. They are just not very common. Not saying they are very rare, but they are not the average Kurdish type. I mean, if I presented Celts in my post, of course I would more focus on the common, North Atlantid and Anglo-Saxon type, as instead of the 'dark' Celtic, Rowan Atkinson/Sean Connery types (which exist, but are rare). I think you should have good faith in others. You think, if somebody doesn't present 'light people', we are making an enemy of them or something and want to portray them negatively. Which is something I do NOT do here. Though this is not say that others don't do it.


Well, you're the one with gave me a negative reaction (alongside Negah). If you were a realist, you should've extended my thread by posting average looking Kurds that look like yourself (most do so), not the Irano-Nordoid types which are rare. Zoro says some Turanid Kurdish/Iranian types exist too. But you never include them. How come?


The problem isn't that you commonly post Nordic types. That's fine, really. But the problem is when you say Irano-Nordoids only pass in Iran and can't pass in Europe. That's just laughable and even other users picked up on this. Yes, your Irano-Nordic types do look Iranian. But they can pass in Europe too, considering Europe has so many Nordic types and is probably the birthplace of the Nordic race. And when I say this, you go with your typical 'attack tactics' where you say we are 'eurowashing'. Um, no, if you're fairly white looking and racially Caucasoid, you can pass in Europe too. That's my only problem with your posts, really. I am actually not against you posting Iranic Nordic types.


Which is as BASELESS as my my accusation. No, you are not a distinct looking group of race untouched by anybody. Some of your people can pass in Europe, just the same way that some can pass in South Asia. Spare me the holier-than-thou, "my people look like my people" attitude. This ethnic or racial patriotism is utterly disgusting and arrogant. Even I can admit that some Assyrians can pass elsewhere. My people are not above anybody when it comes to their looks. Nobody really is.


I'm very sorry that I didn't include your favourite, much-worshipped Nordic Kurds. I am sorry that I featured generic or average looking Kurds, that even a Kurd here (Zoro) applauded me for me unbiased approach. Of course, I am the one with the agenda here. :picard1:


How is not including something you said "misquoting"? You need to learn the meaning. And what is with your arrogance?

And so you say Kurds don't look like Turks and Armenians. Okay, cool. But I was responding to one of your post. I am not an analyst where I have to go through everything you say in a large thread. My main focus anyway was that you seemed irked when I included Pakis, Saudis and Turkmens. I was just addressing that specific part.


What is my agenda? Including Saudi and Pakistani, and not Greece or Bulgaria? *sigh*

Look bub, I didn't come across your post agreeing with Final Flash. If you were not hard-pressed then that's good and I guess we misunderstood each other and got off on the wrong foot. Again, read above, it's not fair to bring up your agreement with Final Flash when I did not come across it, as I was merely quoting your earlier post (and thought you didn't post anymore). This thread is huge with so many pics and quotes. You know that I can easily miss a few posts here and there.


Such a racist, degrading mindset. Because I say Kurds look like Pakistanis, I am looking down upon them. :picard1:

Awesome. So if I had great experience with Kurds, therefore they must look like Germans. If I did not, they look like South Asians. Lmao. Your logic is risible and worthy of condemnation. And I thought you were rather civil and rational minded.

I have seen enough Pakistanis and Kurds to make a judgement. Actually, certain South Asians have private messaged me saying that they dare not pass Pakis as Kurds or Iranians (and vice versa) in fear of Iranic "racialists" calling them OWD for doing so. Lol.


Fair enough...


Well yeah, one Turkish Kurd who always posted Euro looking Med Kurds, whilst brushing off darker Kurds as "gypsy admixed" and insulting you to the core if you said Kurds look like Iranians (to the point where he got permabanned). But of course, he doesn't have an agenda and I do.

Look at Zoro's comment in this thread. How come he doesn't have an issue with my Kurdish photo collection? Because he can see that I included all types of Kurds. You're making an enemy of me for NO REASON.


Listen to you about what? What did I say or do that was so wrong and erroneous? Please enlighten me.

Kurds are diverse looking, from Iranid, Armenoid and even Turanid types to Med and Irano-Nordic types (though I would say Iranid and Armenoid are more common). Do you disagree with that?


Not sure what the fuss is about here but here in my opinion:

No one should claim you have an agenda about brown washing kurds because you are an Assyrian. I mean if you were Gulf Arab or South Asian then there would be a possibility.

There is no doubt a unique S Asian look out there that is common in India and Pakistan and its due to a blending of Iran N and AASI. The Kurd looking Pakistanis are not those. They are mostly Pakistanis with Pashtun, Parsi, Balochi and Brahui ancestry

I think one of the problems when classifying or passing individuals here is that users disclose the ethnicity of the person they are trying to pass. This subconciously creates an innocent bias not because of any agenda. I think if the ethnicity is not disclosed or any hints given by ethnic dress or something you will have a more accurate classification or passing.

We have to remember that once upon a time about 8000 years ago Kurdistan was inhabited by individuals who mostly resembled southern Persians and Pakistanis and some Kurds of today (Iran N) but then there were migrations from the Anatolia that mixed with Iran N and created Iran Chl and basically caused the pigmentation of some people in the Kurdistan area to become lighter and also had an effect on facial features.

So the Kurds with less Anatolian admixture and steppe are more SE Persian or Pakistani looking and the ones with more are less Pakistani looking. I think Mesopotamian admixture also affects phenotype.

It's a no brainer there of course are Kurds that easily pass as Pashtun, Parsi, Balochi, Brahui, Jatts or Gujjars. You posted a couple and here are some more

Iranian Kurdish singer Gholamyar

https://i.imgur.com/JDo7nr4.jpg


One of these guys reminds me of Indian bolywood star Shah Rukh Khan

https://i.imgur.com/m0vYhwI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/a9bFCAA.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nzzJzXv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jfjFHbN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TrUN9OV.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kzEhjRP.jpg

[Zoro]

I agree that a Kurd from Turkey was trying to sometimes white wash Kurds (oddly he himself looked Afghan) but we should understand there are usually reasons for this:

First, some Kurds like Indians or Iranians who grow up in the west are singled out or bullied growing up in western schools because they are "different" looking than the white Europeans or Americans. This sadly creates a self-hate cycle within them because they start blaming their color for not being accepted by the other white kids. Slowly the kid starts to think that white skin color is superior so expresses this by white washing members of his ethnicity.

Second, in some areas of Kurdistan and in Pakistan white skin color with blue eyes and blond hair is a rarity so like any rare thing it becomes very desireable.

[lameduck]

I agree that a Kurd from Turkey was trying to sometimes white wash Kurds (oddly he himself looked Afghan) but we should understand there are usually reasons for this:

First, some Kurds like Indians or Iranians who grow up in the west are singled out or bullied growing up in western schools because they are "different" looking than the white Europeans or Americans. This sadly creates a self-hate cycle within them because they start blaming their color for not being accepted by the other white kids. Slowly the kid starts to think that white skin color is superior so expresses this by white washing members of his ethnicity.

Second, in some areas of Kurdistan and in Pakistan white skin color with blue eyes and blond hair is a rarity so like any rare thing it becomes very desireable.

Never understand this urge for acceptance for being white by non Europeans , no matter how much I paint my face and talk in a non accent way , I am not going to be accepted as British , because this is not what make someone British , what makes someone British is thousands of year folklore connection to British countryside , oxford and cambridge, eton ,london , land that produces so many of people that have changed the course of history and so on.
In world there is only respect for originality , if you stick to your originality and focus on nation building, oneday maybe after 100 years or 200 years there will be takers for your brand. Cherrypicking is one thing and is very much understandable ,but this putting down by non europeans of each other on eurocentric boards for being more and less white is not understandable to me.

[Halgurd]

I don't know why this became a discussion about Pakistan.

but Kurds look like Kurds. We don't have 1 single common phenotype, we look quite diverse actually and I guess it depends on what region as well.

[Halgurd]

I met a Zazaki man in France from Dersim region. He was like a big Kurdish nationalism larper, kinda toxic type which I disliked. I think these people identify as proper Kurds right but are not ? He looked like an Armenian.

Who are you to decide who and who isn't a Kurd?

[Nomansman]

They pass the best in Iran as mountain Iranid types. Other than Iran, they fit best in Turkey, Afghanistan(Tajiks and Pashtuns mostly) and even among Northern Syrian Arabs and Turkmen populace of the middle east. Only few individuals can pass in the Arabian peninsula. As a whole, they don't look like Palestinians or Jordanians or even the Lebanese for that matter.

I actually asked some afghans what they look like and even some of them said that almost all kurds in this pic even can pass as afghans:


https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/600047903137988624/675076955770454052/image0.jpg?width=704&height=428

The afghans i know agreed that most can pass as afghans. So i guess youre right

[Oghuz]

Who said they are not Iranian, or aren't an Iranian type of peoples?


You said that dark haired kurds can pass in a majority north Indic nation. Then you got responded my An Azeri (me), A persian (Negah), A Pashtun (nomansman), A Kurd (zoro, me), A Pakistani (lameduck) that none of them will pass outside Iranic spectrum which extends from Eastern Turkey to Western Pakistan.

Orientalid, Caspid, Armenoid hints may erupt up but they too are regional and connected types.


And I did state later that Pakistan has diverse type of people where even Assyrians and Lebanese can pass there.


Then what was the point of posting dark haired Kurds to prove that they can pass in Pakistan ? Any West Asian can pass in a large and extremely diverse semi Iranic (large minority) nation, some part of which has been historically southern and eastern part of Iran for millennia.




What are you on about here?


I am part Kurd and I know my people better than anyone in real life (Same goes for Azeris, Lurs).



Good question. They are just not very common. Not saying they are very rare, but they are not the average Kurdish type. I mean, if I presented Celts in my post, of course I would more focus on the common, North Atlantid and Anglo-Saxon type, as instead of the 'dark' Celtic, Rowan Atkinson/Sean Connery types (which exist, but are rare). I think you should have good faith in others.


You intentionally excluded a very common type.

If 8-10% Kurds fall in Irano CM and Irano Nordoid spectrum (with mixing off-course) then there are at least 4-5 million Kurds with CM and Irano Nordoid influence (45 Million in total). It shows up when you go to their rural areas or see their pics on screen.

How can you call these people rare when they are present in such high numbers ?


You think, if somebody doesn't present 'light people', we are making an enemy of them or something and want to portray them negatively. Which is something I do NOT do here. Though this is not say that others don't do it.


Well you intentionally excluded a type which exists and is most prevalent among Kurds among Iranic people. You posted dark haired ones, good. You should also post light haired ones who exist in high numbers even if they are minority. I frequently post dark haired iranians.

And I do not care about internet enough to term people as enemies or friends here. You do what you decide to do, not my burden.



Well, you're the one with gave me a negative reaction (alongside Negah).

I did not give you any reaction at all if you notice. You quoted me instead.


Zoro says some Turanid Kurdish/Iranian types exist too. But you never include them. How come?


I have never posted a thread on Kurds. When I will do it, I will be balanced and unbiased.



The problem isn't that you commonly post Nordic types.

I asked you before, I will ask again, please provide me the evidence that I post Irano Nordoid threads. You can take my last 10 threads here and we can do an analysis.


But the problem is when you say Irano-Nordoids only pass in Iran and can't pass in Europe. That's just laughable and even other users picked up on this. Yes, your Irano-Nordic types do look Iranian. But they can pass in Europe too, considering Europe has so many Nordic types and is probably the birthplace of the Nordic race. And when I say this, you go with your typical 'attack tactics' where you say we are 'eurowashing'. Um, no, if you're fairly white looking and racially Caucasoid, you can pass in Europe too. That's my only problem with your posts, really.


Irano nordoid can be light but they always have strong med and hints of orientalid skull shape which makes them look different from Europeans despite being light haired. That is my opinion you can agree or disagree.



Which is as BASELESS as my my accusation. No, you are not a distinct looking group of race untouched by anybody. Some of your people can pass in Europe, just the same way that some can pass in South Asia. Spare me the holier-than-thou, "my people look like my people" attitude. This ethnic or racial patriotism is utterly disgusting and arrogant. Even I can admit that some Assyrians can pass elsewhere. My people are not above anybody when it comes to their looks. Nobody really is.



Iranic ethnic groups are well recognized separate entity. Ethnicity covers culture, language, appearance, genetics, history, origin,customs. One can go around blind in hatred but reality would not change.




I'm very sorry that I didn't include your favourite, much-worshipped Nordic Kurds.


Provide me with evidence that my favorite type is Irano Nordoid ?

I mostly post Irano Med types (most prevalent type) with occasional Caspids.




I'm very sorry that I didn't include your favourite, much-worshipped Nordic Kurds. I am sorry that I featured generic or average looking Kurds, that even a Kurd here (Zoro) applauded me for me unbiased approach. Of course, I am the one with the agenda here. :picard1:


your logic is flawed. Zoro said that your posted darkest possible kurds that you could find on google search would only pass among Iranic types. That is his quote below.




The Kurd looking Pakistanis are not those. They are mostly Pakistanis with Pashtun, Parsi, Balochi and Brahui ancestry


Pashtuns, Parsis, Baloch are all Iranic people.

And even if he was agreeing with you, he is not the only Kurd posting here.


...............................................

P.S. Please do not send me political rants on PM. I do not respond to political statements esp on PM.

Anything else, I will sure respond.

[Negah]

I agree that a Kurd from Turkey was trying to sometimes white wash Kurds (oddly he himself looked Afghan) but we should understand there are usually reasons for this:



Hey little man, Kurd from Turkey has been banned and cannot defend himself. Stop bullying him and accusing him of things. If he whitewashed his people then that is his business. You and Shelati need to get a life and stop bullying this person.

[Negah]

We have to remember that once upon a time about 8000 years ago Kurdistan was inhabited by individuals who mostly resembled southern Persians and Pakistanis and some Kurds of today (Iran N) but then there were migrations from the Anatolia that mixed with Iran N and created Iran Chl


Can you show me some studies that prove this?

[Negah]

It's a no brainer there of course are Kurds that easily pass as Pashtun, Parsi, Balochi, Brahui, Jatts or Gujjars. You posted a couple and here are some more

Not really. There are similarities but Balochis, for example, look kind of distinct even from Persians. There is an overlap of various degrees but again not an accurate statement.

IMO You are a troll.

[Nomansman]

Can you show me some studies that prove this?

TBH, i would like to see that as well.

Its always dilawer himself supporting that kind of stuff, but havent seen any other papers than papers from dilawers supporting his theories(although they keep mentioning abut dna papers n stuff)

[Westbrook]

I still have a crush on this Kurdish girl. I hope she survived the war.

https://i.imgur.com/PmypU8g.jpg?1

[Zoro]

Hey little man
Lol


If he whitewashed his people then that is his business.
Did I say he couldn’t but i think it’s stupid to do either way whitewash or brownwash

[Zoro]

Can you show me some studies that prove this?

Here’s a clue even you can understand. Where was Iran N recovered?

What’s the genetic difference between Iran N and the subsequent Iran chl which were also recovered in Kurdistan area?

Are you really this slow or just trolling me?

[Zoro]

TBH, i would like to see that as well.

Its always dilawer himself supporting that kind of stuff, but havent seen any other papers than papers from dilawers supporting his theories(although they keep mentioning abut dna papers n stuff)

I think you got Dilawer and Broushaki and Lazaridis mixed up. Stop trolling the man

[Zoro]

Not really. There are similarities but Balochis, for example, look kind of distinct even from Persians. There is an overlap of various degrees but again not an accurate statement.

IMO You are a troll.

Nevermind what meson, shelati, i, or noman said in post 77 the pictures speak for themselves

[Zoro]

I actually asked some afghans what they look like and even some of them said that almost all kurds in this pic even can pass as afghans:


https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/600047903137988624/675076955770454052/image0.jpg?width=704&height=428

The afghans i know agreed that most can pass as afghans. So i guess youre right

Interesting

[Negah]

Nevermind what meson, shelati, i, or noman said in post 77 the pictures speak for themselves

I am not sure but what you are implying here. Further elaboration would be helpful.

However, many Balochis despite their shared similarities to other groups within Iran (including the Kurds of Iran )have their own regional look.

Here is a set of pictures that are I think are pretty accurate to show some of their unique phenotypes ( this is not meant to cover their entire diversity):



https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/410/cpsprodpb/3876/production/_104945441_aslam.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/2869/33428909544_61eaeda54c_z.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0qbqYDWoAQcydd.jpg

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/410/cpsprodpb/4E31/production/_107471002_mediaitem107470998.jpg

https://gdb.voanews.com/E5E59400-4EBB-4DBC-B144-6C4926E8BF88_cx0_cy9_cw0_w408_r1_s.png

https://audio.tarikhema.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/download-min-2-2.jpg

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/ws/410/amz/worldservice/live/assets/images/2012/06/01/120601073035_bughti-brahamdagh-balochist.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1116705728012673024/6WuN_DNc_400x400.jpg


https://irane-ma.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/%D8%AA%D8%AC%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B6%DB%8C-%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%AF%D9%85-%D8%B2%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D8%B9%D8%AA%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B6-%D8%A8%D9%87-%D9%82%D8%AA%D9%84-%D8%AC%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%86-%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88%DA%86-%D8%A8%D8%AC%D8%B1%D9%85-%D9%86%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B4%D8%AA%D9%86-%DA%AF%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%87%DB%8C%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85%D 9%87.jpg


https://ariananews.co/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/%D8%B9%D8%A8%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AF%D 8%B1-%D8%A8%D9%84%D9%88%DA%86.jpg


https://farsi.arada.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2018/03/28684883_327659424305968_4484496028995993126_n.jpg

[Negah]

.
Did I say he couldn’t but i think it’s stupid to do either way whitewash or brownwash


My point is that this particular user is an easy target and yet he cannot defend himself since he has been banned. IMO It is best for you to state your point of view without accusing him of things he cannot defend. You can simply share with us how you see the Kurds without accusing this person of any wrongdoing. That is my point.

[lameduck]

Not sure what the fuss is about here but here in my opinion:

No one should claim you have an agenda about brown washing kurds because you are an Assyrian. I mean if you were Gulf Arab or South Asian then there would be a possibility.

There is no doubt a unique S Asian look out there that is common in India and Pakistan and its due to a blending of Iran N and AASI. The Kurd looking Pakistanis are not those. They are mostly Pakistanis with Pashtun, Parsi, Balochi and Brahui ancestry

I think one of the problems when classifying or passing individuals here is that users disclose the ethnicity of the person they are trying to pass. This subconciously creates an innocent bias not because of any agenda. I think if the ethnicity is not disclosed or any hints given by ethnic dress or something you will have a more accurate classification or passing.

We have to remember that once upon a time about 8000 years ago Kurdistan was inhabited by individuals who mostly resembled southern Persians and Pakistanis and some Kurds of today (Iran N) but then there were migrations from the Anatolia that mixed with Iran N and created Iran Chl and basically caused the pigmentation of some people in the Kurdistan area to become lighter and also had an effect on facial features.

So the Kurds with less Anatolian admixture and steppe are more SE Persian or Pakistani looking and the ones with more are less Pakistani looking. I think Mesopotamian admixture also affects phenotype.

It's a no brainer there of course are Kurds that easily pass as Pashtun, Parsi, Balochi, Brahui, Jatts or Gujjars. You posted a couple and here are some more




you can feel closer to these groups as much as you want but kurds really dont fit among these groups talking strictly from anthro point of view. If you ask noumansman he will also say this.

[Arsen_]

This man is the representative of the Kurdish community in the Armenia's Parliament. Does he look typical for a Kurd?

https://d.radikal.ru/d32/1905/58/d3020637b7f1.jpg

[Zoro]

you can feel closer to these groups as much as you want but kurds really dont fit among these groups talking strictly from anthro point of view. If you ask noumansman he will also say this.

I don’t know what you mean by anthro. Give some examples. As far as customs and culture Indo-Iranians feel closest to each. For example, kurds baloch and Pashtuns share many customs and values. For example:

Honor- An individual’s or family’s honor must be protected at all costs. That’s the reason for honor killings amongst both kurds and pashtuns. That’s also the reason that girls are chaparoned by family males

Hospitality for guests- kurds and pashtuns will take the shirt off their backs for guests even strangers. They will not let you leave the home without feeding you. They’ll also insist that you sleep in their home.

Bravery- protection of family tribe and land. That’s the reason my grandfather and great grandfather didn’t make it to age 40

Revenge

You add this to religion, language and phenotypes and you can see why i feel very comfortable with other indo-iranians including pashtuns and baloch and tribal Persians

[Zoro]

This man is the representative of the Kurdish community in the Armenia's Parliament. Does he look typical for a Kurd?

https://d.radikal.ru/d32/1905/58/d3020637b7f1.jpg

Sort of

[lameduck]

I don’t know what you mean by anthro. Give some examples. As far as customs and culture Indo-Iranians feel closest to each. For example, kurds baloch and Pashtuns share many customs and values. For example:

Honor- An individual’s or family’s honor must be protected at all costs. That’s the reason for honor killings amongst both kurds and pashtuns. That’s also the reason that girls are chaparoned by family males

Hospitality for guests- kurds and pashtuns will take the shirt off their backs for guests even strangers. They will not let you leave the home without feeding you. They’ll also insist that you sleep in their home.

Bravery- protection of family tribe and land. That’s the reason my grandfather and great grandfather didn’t make it to age 40

Revenge

You add this to religion, language and phenotypes and you can see why i feel very comfortable with other indo-iranians including pashtuns and baloch and tribal Persians

I can understand where are you coming from , there is a recent political realization among Kurds , also if I am not wrong iran neolithic component has origin in Kurdish homeland , so you feel emotional connection to people who have it highest and would try to search for commonalities rather than differences.

[Nomansman]

I don’t know what you mean by anthro. Give some examples. As far as customs and culture Indo-Iranians feel closest to each. For example, kurds baloch and Pashtuns share many customs and values. For example:

Honor- An individual’s or family’s honor must be protected at all costs. That’s the reason for honor killings amongst both kurds and pashtuns. That’s also the reason that girls are chaparoned by family males

Hospitality for guests- kurds and pashtuns will take the shirt off their backs for guests even strangers. They will not let you leave the home without feeding you. They’ll also insist that you sleep in their home.

Bravery- protection of family tribe and land. That’s the reason my grandfather and great grandfather didn’t make it to age 40

Revenge

You add this to religion, language and phenotypes and you can see why i feel very comfortable with other indo-iranians including pashtuns and baloch and tribal Persians

I thinj.....many other ethnicities are already doing that

[Zoro]

I thinj.....many other ethnicities are already doing that

No offense I’ve said this along with Avicenna and other users in the past I personally don’t think you’re pashtun. You sound to me as either sindhi or punjabi which are also great people btw.

My gut feeling is Many things you say are so non typical of what a pashtun would say such as your comments about dilawer and other responses you give about kurds and iranians. All the pashtuns i have known are pretty familiar with the linguistic and cultural similarities between pashtuns and kurds. In post 77 you had to ask afghans what they thought about those pics of kurds. As a pashtun you wouldn’t have to have asked.

Anyways since i just happen to be familiar with pashto and as your luck would have it specifically Quetta and Kandahari pashto (you say you are Pashtun from Quetta), i would like to see if you can translate the following into English. I know you previously said you live with your parents and they speak it.


Ke quettawaal ye tarjuma ye wuka:

Sta d inddiwaalo sara pa chish janjaal wusu
Wazifa de chish di
akaasi kala de karri di

[Negah]

———

[Nomansman]

No offense I’ve said this along with Avicenna and other users in the past I personally don’t think you’re pashtun. You sound to me as either sindhi or punjabi which are also great people btw.

My gut feeling is Many things you say are so non typical of what a pashtun would say such as your comments about dilawer and other responses you give about kurds and iranians. All the pashtuns i have known are pretty familiar with the linguistic and cultural similarities between pashtuns and kurds. In post 77 you had to ask afghans what they thought about those pics of kurds. As a pashtun you wouldn’t have to have asked.

Anyways since i just happen to be familiar with pashto and as your luck would have it specifically Quetta and Kandahari pashto (you say you are Pashtun from Quetta), i would like to see if you can translate the following into English. I know you previously said you live with your parents and they speak it.

Nope, i cant translate it, because im pretty shitty with pashto.

However, i can prove it in other ways im pashtun.

And my parents happen to speak pashto with each other, but not to me or my brother much(since they know we're not good with pashto and even when my mom wants us to learn it, tbh im pretty lazy about learning it). I dont speak much with other pashtuns anyway and speak more with non-pashtuns(since im much better with danish or english). And even with the other afghans i speak danish.

Also, yeah there are probably linguistically similiarities between pashto and kurdish, but i honestly dont understand kurdish at all. Also, i asked the other afghans because i just wanted to hear their opinion. In my opinion, the kurds in the pics do honestly pass as afghans as whole. But as pashtuns, many can stand out. Pashtuns and balochs look different from kurds more than tajikis and afg tajiks do.


Also, my comments on dilawer is based on what people are saying. But tbh, apart from him and yourself, i honestly havent seen other people supporting his theories. Only him and his "followers". Im neutral about him(and even once excited about his studies) but as time went on and he didnt add more than posting a calculator(which wasnt much interesting to my dissapointment) i kind of lost the interest i once had in him. He didnt even himself seem to be interested in some of his dna analyses, when i asked him where pashtuns genetically cluster.


And avicenna himself seems convinced enough im a pashtun myself. But tbh, if you dont wanna believe me and call me a larper/fraud, fine. I honestly dont care anyway. I know what i am IRL, wether you'll keep calling me a punjabi or not


Edit: Also, im not even the only pashtun who isnt super keen with dilawer's work. Know some few others(and most dont even know dilawer actually). The only one who seems to have interest to him were sein and maybe surbhakhun only

[Zoro]

Nope, i cant translate it, because im pretty shitty with pashto.

And my parents happen to speak pashto with each other, but not to me or my brother much



No problem but can you ask them to translate what I just wrote.


The only one who seems to have interest to him were sein and maybe surbhakhun

Who are they and how do you know these people?

[Nomansman]

No problem but can you ask them to translate what I just wrote.



Who are they and how do you know these people?

Oh, thought you knew them. Forget it.

Also, im not sure if i just can go and ask my parents what it means. It be a bit akward, since i have no good reason to translate it. But i might come with translation once.

You can just believe im sindhi/punjabi or whatever

[Zroota]

What is wrong with you? Are you okay? What is the deal with your perpetual fixation with skin color? You are the RACIST here I am not.
Gotta love your ad hominem attacks and emotional response. Of course, because you have nothing intelligent in return. :coffee:

You stupidly assumed I had "bad experience with Kurds" because I said *SOME* looked Pakistani. Lol. Go read what you said, mister. I rest my case here.


When did I say Pakistanis and Saudis don't look Kurdish people because of their skin color? Again you are the one who is making the assumption and surmising that the difference is due to skin color. Then how about the Turkmens. Are Turkmens darker than the Kurds? It is the facial features that make these groups distinct.
You're such a hypocrite. You're the one who brought up Turkmenistan and Saudi Arabia. You were (presumably) hard pressed that I included darker countries, and now you're throwing it on me. You are so bad at this, really.

Why are you so mad? You are a Persian and this thread has nothing to do with you. Again, some Kurds can look like Turkmenistanis, colour and feature wise. Who cares?


Then you do have an agenda and apparently that user got under your skin. I am not that Kurdish user. I am not here to defend or defame him.
No. But you are defaming and character-assassinating me, because my posts don't fit your agenda, rather. :picard2:

Actually, I wanted to show the banned Kurdish user, who cherrypicked Med looking white Kurds, that darker & more 'Asiatic' types exist too. If that's an agenda to you, then so be it. :coffee:

Again, why are you so put off by my post? I have a hunch that you have some relations to that banned user. You have childishly and pathetically insulted Zoro because he criticises him. Do you realise how ignorant and nasty he was to people in here? Why are you defending such type of people? And I thought you were all for respect and maturity. :picard1:


You said that dark haired kurds can pass in a majority north Indic nation. Then you got responded my An Azeri (me), A persian (Negah), A Pashtun (nomansman), A Kurd (zoro, me), A Pakistani (lameduck) that none of them will pass outside Iranic spectrum which extends from Eastern Turkey to Western Pakistan.
I said they can pass in parts of Pakistan (which is in the spectrum). I don't think I've mentioned anything specifically "Indic", other than some Kurds may have features similar to some north, lighter Indians. Same way some Kurds may look like Turks or Southern European. It's not a really a big deal.


Then what was the point of posting dark haired Kurds to prove that they can pass in Pakistan ? Any West Asian can pass in a large and extremely diverse semi Iranic (large minority) nation, some part of which has been historically southern and eastern part of Iran for millennia.
Because this thread was about Kurds and where they can pass? And the Kurds weren't just dark-haired. They just had features that were very similar to Pakistanis, particularly the more "Indic" looking ones. I don't see why this is a problem because Pakistanis and even Indians are "Indo-Iranians" as a whole, barring the more Dravidian mixed types.


You intentionally excluded a very common type.

If 8-10% Kurds fall in Irano CM and Irano Nordoid spectrum (with mixing off-course) then there are at least 4-5 million Kurds with CM and Irano Nordoid influence (45 Million in total). It shows up when you go to their rural areas or see their pics on screen.

How can you call these people rare when they are present in such high numbers ?
Don't you think 8-10% is a minority? 4-5 million out of 45 million is still not that much. Besides, I indiscriminately looked through Google Images and I honestly didn't come across these blonde types (unless if I typed "blonde Iranians/Kurds" and that's where they all showed up). I made a very fair representation of Kurds. You surely have to be fair here and see the image collection being rather typical of Kurds. Furthermore, CM type exists in dark-haired people as well.


Well you intentionally excluded a type which exists and is most prevalent among Kurds among Iranic people. You posted dark haired ones, good. You should also post light haired ones who exist in high numbers even if they are minority. I frequently post dark haired iranians.
Listen, I wrote "Kurdish people" (with no strings attached). And these images showed up. And I am not ignorant when it comes to Iranian peoples as the majority do look like the people in the images above. Please go and do the same thing on Google and you'll see that the 'normal' looking dark-haired type is still more common.


I asked you before, I will ask again, please provide me the evidence that I post Irano Nordoid threads. You can take my last 10 threads here and we can do an analysis.
You actually don't make Irano-Nordid threads per se. But you do seem to repeatedly post pics of the same Irano Nordid/CM soldiers in some of your posts WITHIN a random Iranian thread. Again, I don't care that you do this, but I just have a problem when you reprimand me when I say they can also pass in Europe. That's my only issue here.


Irano nordoid can be light but they always have strong med and hints of orientalid skull shape which makes them look different from Europeans despite being light haired. That is my opinion you can agree or disagree.
Well, if you look at it deeply and pedantically maybe you can see distinct Asiatic qualities in an IN person. But at first glance, some of the Irano Nordic people you post here wouldn't be that out of place in, say, eastern Europe. I guess we can agree to disagree here.


Iranic ethnic groups are well recognized separate entity. Ethnicity covers culture, language, appearance, genetics, history, origin,customs. One can go around blind in hatred but reality would not change.
Well, that is right. But aren't Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indians "Iranic" people too or am I missing something here? I mean, I just said up there that some Iranic Kurds can pass in those nations (better) and I am told that I have an agenda and I am "looking down" on Kurds. People in this forum have always had this superiority complex over darker ethnic groups -- If we were to pass whiter groups in darker countries, we all of a sudden have an "agenda" doing it intentionally and we're "trolls". The theme here seems to be like that. And we shouldn't follow this banal, predictable path.



Provide me with evidence that my favorite type is Irano Nordoid ?

I mostly post Irano Med types (most prevalent type) with occasional Caspids.


your logic is flawed. Zoro said that your posted darkest possible kurds that you could find on google search would only pass among Iranic types. That is his quote below.
Again, it's not about you "favouring" Irano Nordics. But you seem to attack those who "intentionally" exclude them, as you're doing with me.

Again, aren't Pakistani Iranics? I thought Pakistan is an Indo-Iranian speaking nation in the Iranic spectrum, is it not?

Zoro said Kurds have a varying look and can pass elsewhere as well (look for his post on the first page):

"To me kurds are varied enough where they can pass in most of the places you noted with highest overlap in Iran but many can easily pass as various Turks and in Turkmenistan and even Uzbekistan."

And? Is there anything wrong with passing in Uzbekistan? I am really baffled here.


P.S. Please do not send me political rants on PM. I do not respond to political statements esp on PM.

Anything else, I will sure respond.
Nothing to do with politics and it was more trivial actually. I didn't find it important in a thread. But all I was saying is that Assyrians are anti-Iranian (even those from Iran are beginning to have an anti-Iranian sentiment). Most of us are from Iraq and Syria, and we are brainwashed with an Arab mindset, where we post anti-Iranian content on social media whilst praising Iraq or Syria (even I don't buy it). The more liberal or rational minded Assyrians (like myself) just despise Iran for being very Islamic (though of course, we have no problem with normal Persian people). My point was, compared to them, I am the least of your worries (since you said you get along with Assyrians well and I am somehow the "bad apple").

[Oghuz]

I said they can pass in parts of Pakistan (which is in the spectrum). I don't think I've mentioned anything specifically "Indic", other than some Kurds may have features similar to some north, lighter Indians.

You are very wrong. You very clearly said that they pass in pakistan. You did not mention that they pass among Iranic type Pakistanis (hundreds of millions).

Here is your qoute. Where have you mentioned parts of Pakistan ?



Here are Kurds that can easily pass in Pakistan






Because this thread was about Kurds and where they can pass? And the Kurds weren't just dark-haired. They just had features that were very similar to Pakistanis, particularly the more "Indic" looking ones.


None of the darkest possible people you posted would pass as dark Indic type Pakistanis. Pakistani user Lameduck, An Afghan (Nomansman), Me an Iranian, zoro (iraqi Kurd) all said same thing to you that none of those people will pass outside Iranic spectrum which extends from half of pakistan to half of Turkey.


I don't see why this is a problem because Pakistanis and even Indians are "Indo-Iranians" as a whole, barring the more Dravidian mixed types.

You need to educate yourself better. Indians are not Indo Iranic, they are Indo Aryans linguistically and genetically they are built of Australoid driven AASI (Majorly) + Iranian Neolithic (moderately) + Steppe (Steppe+ BMAC) (Mildly) etc. Indian cline has less to do with Iranic cline.

https://i.postimg.cc/xChtP2rz/ace.jpg




Don't you think 8-10% is a minority? 4-5 million out of 45 million is still not that much.

4-5 million is larger than your own ethnic group.


Besides, I indiscriminately looked through Google Images and I honestly didn't come across these blonde types (unless if I typed "blonde Iranians/Kurds" and that's where they all showed up). I made a very fair representation of Kurds. You surely have to be fair here and see the image collection being rather typical of Kurds. Furthermore, CM type exists in dark-haired people as well.


Irano Nordoid is not supposed to be platinum or pure golden haired blondes that is why it is called Irano nordoid because it is mixture of Iranid subtypes and Proto Nordoids. Proto Nordoids like Irano Nordoids are present as well but they belong to Nordoid spectrum not Irano Nordoid.

As for your claims of them being less in numbers. I have said it before here and I will again repeat that as per my own observations, they are on average of 5-8 % in the whole iranic plateaue.

This is a Persian Crowd from Tehran, Iran. Easily 5-8 % people can be detected as Irano Nordoid (mixtures of Proto Nordoids with Iranid or Med). I can post like 20 more pics of same nature of crowds. And this is a persian crowd, Kurds have more CM and Nordoid influence then Persians on average.

https://th.thgim.com/news/international/73v986/article26235793.ece/alternates/FREE_660/IRANREVOLUTIONANNIVERSARYTIMELINE




Listen, I wrote "Kurdish people" (with no strings attached). And these images showed up. And I am not ignorant when it comes to Iranian peoples as the majority do look like the people in the images above.


No they do not. Kurds have more CM, proto Iranid like appearance while Azeris have Turanid admixture (like myself), Persians have more gracilised progressive type. We all look similar yet our sub types are different.





Please go and do the same thing on Google and you'll see that the 'normal' looking dark-haired type is still more common.


No one contested that. We are a dark haired race but variety exists in large numbers as well.



You actually don't make Irano-Nordid threads per se.



But before you accused me twice of posting Irano Nordoid threads. You were lying before (that I post Irano Nordoid threads) or you are lying now (that I do not post Irano Nordoid threads? Here are your quotes



You always conveniently choose and cherrypick the lighter CM types to whitewash Iranians



The problem isn't that you commonly post Nordic types.

Comments ?


but I just have a problem when you reprimand me when I say they can also pass in Europe. That's my only issue here.


Matter of Opinion. In my opinion Iranid type including the mixed Nordoid one has massive Orientalid (Iran Neolithic) and Corded + Proto Nordoid (IE) base line which is why it looks exclusive and has a hard time passing anywhere. Again, you can agree or disagree.


But at first glance, some of the Irano Nordic people you post here wouldn't be that out of place in, say, eastern Europe.

Where have I posted Irano Nordic people ? Provide proof.

Most of my threads are about Irano meds, Iranids, Caspids.




Well, that is right. But aren't Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indians "Iranic" people too or am I missing something here?

You need education on the subject. All these groups genetically belong to Indian cline (except half of Pakistan which is Iranic) and linguistically they belong to Indo Aryan culture. They have nothing to do with genetic Iranic cline. Only common factor is IVC which came from Iranian neolithic farmers migration when they mixed with AASI to give ASI or if Steppe people took some Iranic genetics from BMAC in Afghanistan, Tajikistan before invading what is now South Asia. Otherwise these are two different groups with two different identities with no population interaction.

Read this wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_peoples

and this page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples



People in this forum have always had this superiority complex over darker ethnic groups -- If we were to pass whiter groups in darker countries, we all of a sudden have an "agenda" doing it intentionally and we're "trolls". The theme here seems to be like that. And we shouldn't follow this banal, predictable path.


No Iranic user (Iranian, Kurd, Afghan, Tajik etc) here has ever been found here on this forum of dark washing or white washing Iranians. We are what we are. I am myself a swarthy, Turanid, MENA looking man. No Arab or NA does this either. Few Turkish users are hardcore OWD types though, rest of them are not OWD either.



Again, it's not about you "favouring" Irano Nordics. But you seem to attack those who "intentionally" exclude them, as you're doing with me.



Common sense dictates that if you are posting a thread about an ethnicity then you should include all types esp the ones which are in millions. Not just the one that you think is most prevalent.



Again, aren't Pakistani Iranics? I thought Pakistan is an Indo-Iranian speaking nation in the Iranic spectrum, is it not?


Half of it is just like some of Turkiye, Iraq, etc

https://hormozgan96.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/iran-e-bozorg1.jpg


Zoro said Kurds have a varying look and can pass elsewhere as well (look for his post on the first page):

"To me kurds are varied enough where they can pass in most of the places you noted with highest overlap in Iran but many can easily pass as various Turks and in Turkmenistan and even Uzbekistan."



Here is zoro's qoute (He is Iraqi Kurd)


The Kurd looking Pakistanis are not those. They are mostly Pakistanis with Pashtun, Parsi, Balochi and Brahui ancestry


Here is Negah's qoute (He is Persian)




BTW most of these Kurds that you posted don't look Pakistani IMO.

Here is Lameducks qoute (He is a Pakistani)


only these two can , rest no way


Here is Nomansman qoute (He is an afghan)


Gotta be honest with you now....none of these people look very paki. They dont even look pashtun even.

And you already know my opinion, See everyone is disagreeing with you. I do not see how that is a problem. I have been corrected by people here as well.





But all I was saying is that Assyrians are anti-Iranian (even those from Iran are beginning to have an anti-Iranian sentiment). I am somehow the "bad apple").

I knew one Iranian Assyrian (female) from Urmia in my Bachelors. Another one is a son of a war hero whose father is a Iran Iraq war veteran (Army Aviation) and he attends Iranian Defence forums. I found them both as patriotic about Iran as any other Iranian. I am proud of them.




Most of us are from Iraq and Syria, and we are brainwashed with an Arab mindset, where we post anti-Iranian content on social media whilst praising Iraq or Syria (even I don't buy it).

You mean Saudi Arab mindset ? because traditionally Shia Arabs have been the most trustworthy and strongest allies of Iran.




The more liberal or rational minded Assyrians (like myself) just despise Iran for being very Islamic (though of course, we have no problem with normal Persian people).

You are free to believe in whatever you want to believe in. You choose your own path.




My point was, compared to them, I am the least of your worries (since you said you get along with Assyrians well and I am somehow the "bad apple").

We have no worries. We are well prepared as a nation, theocracy, alliance to deal with our enemies the way we have been dealing with them in their own houses.

[Zroota]

You are very wrong. You very clearly said that they pass in pakistan. You did not mention that they pass among Iranic type Pakistanis (hundreds of millions).

Here is your qoute. Where have you mentioned parts of Pakistan ?
Yes, I said they can pass in Pakistan. I just wasn't geographically-specific. What's "wrong" about that? I am not sure why you have to nitpick this. I just wasn't particular. But, whether they pass in some parts or all for that matter, my point still stands that SOME Kurds can pass in Pakistan. Don't strawman me just because I didn't include the specific geography. Pakistan is still Pakistan.


None of the darkest possible people you posted would pass as dark Indic type Pakistanis. Pakistani user Lameduck, An Afghan (Nomansman), Me an Iranian, zoro (iraqi Kurd) all said same thing to you that none of those people will pass outside Iranic spectrum which extends from half of pakistan to half of Turkey.
Who is talking about dark Indic Pakis? You should make a distinction between "dark Indic Pakistanis" and just average Indid-looking, 'light' Pakistanis like these, who to me, can easily pass as Kurds or Persians:

https://media.emirates247.com/images/2015/03/YT5saCaB.jpg
https://pakiholic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/565c2b89b191c.jpg
https://www.desiblitz.com/wp-content/gallery/pakistan-sexiest-men/Pak-men-Gallery_4.jpg
https://behtareen.pk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Pakistani-Men-Moustache-Actors-696x392.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/01/0e/52/010e52738066d3b9327458e48fa13017.jpg

I am not sure why you're changing the goalpost here. You just said Pakistanis are diverse and any West Asian can pass there. So I'm not sure what your argument is here and why you are contradicting your earlier point? Either way, I still stand to believe that a number Kurds and Iranians can easily pass there, even better than Levantines. We have to agree to disagree on this.

Lameduck actually told me in a PM that he doesn't pass Iranians as Pakistanis and vice versa in fear of being called OWD by Iranian nationalists. Nomansman is NOT an Afghan. He is not who we think he is. He can't even type in Pashto and is probably a fake account (read his posts here for proof). Zoro actually agreed with me that Kurds can pass in parts of Central Asia and are "diverse looking". Why does it matter what they have to say? I have eyes as well. It's pretty insulting to diminish my views. I have met enough Kurds, Persians and Pakistanis to have a perception on them.


You need to educate yourself better. Indians are not Indo Iranic, they are Indo Aryans linguistically and genetically they are built of Australoid driven AASI (Majorly) + Iranian Neolithic (moderately) + Steppe (Steppe+ BMAC) (Mildly) etc. Indian cline has less to do with Iranic cline.

https://i.postimg.cc/xChtP2rz/ace.jpg
Educate myself about what? Not my problem that terms like Indo Iranian, Indo Aryan, Iranic, and so many others are coined and used interchangeably among Indo-Iranian speakers, which can be confusing. I know a few Iranians who just use "Aryans" to identify themselves. It will be difficult "educating" myself about people who use many names to identify themselves with.


4-5 million is larger than your own ethnic group.

As for your claims of them being less in numbers. I have said it before here and I will again repeat that as per my own observations, they are on average of 5-8 % in the whole iranic plateaue.

You're ruling out relativity. First off, we are one of the smallest ethnic groups by population in the world. In Iraq, there used to be 2 million of us or so in the 90s, when the population there was around 20 million. But we were still classed a minority group, even though we were a decent number. If 3-5 million is a small fraction in a 20 million number frame, I'm sure it will be more vitiated in a group with 50-70 million individuals, thus still making Irano Nordoids a 'minority' in their perspective population.

Furthermore, African Americans make up 12% of the US population with 40 million of them (nearly twice the population of Australia!), and yet they are deemed as a minority group as well there. This is just basic mathematics. Bringing up my small ethnic group is a false equivalence. And I still stand to believe that 5-8% is a minority. Regardless of how many millions or even billions fit in the percentage. It's standard maths. I believe you're smart enough to not refute this.


This is a Persian Crowd from Tehran, Iran. Easily 5-8 % people can be detected as Irano Nordoid (mixtures of Proto Nordoids with Iranid or Med). I can post like 20 more pics of same nature of crowds. And this is a persian crowd, Kurds have more CM and Nordoid influence then Persians on average.

https://th.thgim.com/news/international/73v986/article26235793.ece/alternates/FREE_660/IRANREVOLUTIONANNIVERSARYTIMELINE
Well, in a crowd of hundreds of people of course we can pick out a few Irano-Nordoids. And this easily corresponds with the 5-8% figure (which I never refuted). Again, I know and I acknolwedge that Irano Nordoids exist. We will always pick them out in a crowd. But they're still a minority type. I just typed in "Iranian people" in Google and these girls came up (they exemplify, to me, the typical look in Iran):

https://cdn.icepop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Slide-19-Ninara-Flickr.jpg


No one contested that. We are a dark haired race but variety exists in large numbers as well.
And that's what I was trying to do in this thread. Showcase the more common and widespread types. I know other varieties exist as well. But I didn't want to hijack this thread with their photos only and give the wrong impression of them. You can see I focused on crowd photos and the majority therein exemplified a "dark-haired race".

Besides, Hadouken here had made tons of Kurdish threads where he handpicked the white, Med looking ones (you surely must have come across them). I did not want to follow his steps.


But before you accused me twice of posting Irano Nordoid threads. You were lying before (that I post Irano Nordoid threads) or you are lying now (that I do not post Irano Nordoid threads? Here are your quotes
Nobody is lying. There was a time when you did persistently post the same Irano-Nordoids people in some threads. I felt as if you were whitewashing Iranic peoples. I got over that and started to have no problem with it. But then you had a issue with me passing these Irano-Nordoids in Europe and labelled me a "eurowasher". That's where I started to get bothered by your mindset and how you can't accept how others perceive certain races of people (and where we can place them, which all stands to personal perception and opinion, nothing much).


Where have I posted Irano Nordic people ? Provide proof.

Most of my threads are about Irano meds, Iranids, Caspids.
We have made millions of threads and posts. You know it is time consuming to go through them. ABOVE ALL, The Irano Nordic people were NOT in your opening threads for classification, but just mere random posts WITHIN THREADS made by OTHERS that are LONG GONE in this forum's archives. I can't remember the thread titles as they were random posts by other people. I know that you have posted Iranids and Caspids in your opening threads. And most of your THREADS include dark haired Iranian individuals for classification. Again, I am NOT talking about your classification threads.


You need education on the subject. All these groups genetically belong to Indian cline (except half of Pakistan which is Iranic) and linguistically they belong to Indo Aryan culture. They have nothing to do with genetic Iranic cline. Only common factor is IVC which came from Iranian neolithic farmers migration when they mixed with AASI to give ASI or if Steppe people took some Iranic genetics from BMAC in Afghanistan, Tajikistan before invading what is now South Asia. Otherwise these are two different groups with two different identities with no population interaction.

Read this wiki page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Aryan_peoples

and this page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples
I guess people may naturally conflate language families with linguistics. You shouldn't blame them. And as I said above, some Iranians and Indians do use varying terms for themselves, like Iranian, Aryan, Iranic, interchangeably. I have met Indians use say they're "Indo-Iranians" or "Iranian peoples" (not saying they are right or anything). But you must understand the confusion. Because they're the source here and they can't use the correct term(s) for themselves.


No Iranic user (Iranian, Kurd, Afghan, Tajik etc) here has ever been found here on this forum of dark washing or white washing Iranians. We are what we are. I am myself a swarthy, Turanid, MENA looking man. No Arab or NA does this either. Few Turkish users are hardcore OWD types though, rest of them are not OWD either.
I would agree that most Turks here are OWD for sure. Btw, since you came late here in the game, you were not familiar with two (banned) Kurds here that were very OWD that most people here picked up (Hadouken and Gangrel). They had no problems with Med looking Kurds being displayed, but any darker ones they were ruled as "gypsy admixed" and we were called racist trolls for portraying "dark" Kurds here. So that's why I had my suspicions here. You mustn't blame me. Now I do believe that you may have good intentions here so far. So I still don't understand why we're debating this.


Common sense dictates that if you are posting a thread about an ethnicity then you should include all types esp the ones which are in millions. Not just the one that you think is most prevalent.
I disagree. We should post the common, typical look. If I had included a disproportionate amount of Turanid types then I had an agenda. But you can see that I focused on the typical look among Kurds. I can see where you're coming from though, but I have to disagree here.


Here is zoro's qoute (He is Iraqi Kurd)



Here is Negah's qoute (He is Persian)



Here is Lameducks qoute (He is a Pakistani)
Zoro said "They are mostly Pakistanis with Pashtun, Parsi, Balochi and Brahui ancestry". He even said "Kurd looking Pakistanis". What are you telling me here?

Regardless, they are still Pakistani nationals, despite their ethnic makeup.

And if two Kurdish men in my post can pass in Pakistan, then I'm sure millions can.

(Left out Nomansman because he is a fake account)


And you already know my opinion, See everyone is disagreeing with you. I do not see how that is a problem. I have been corrected by people here as well.
There was no disagreement with Zoro. He did say that Kurds can pass in Central Asia and liked my post. Again, you're trying to make a dissonance between us when there really isn't.

And you are appealing to the argumentantum of ad populum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum). Other people saying it doesn't mean I'm wrong.


I knew one Iranian Assyrian (female) from Urmia in my Bachelors. Another one is a son of a war hero whose father is a Iran Iraq war veteran (Army Aviation) and he attends Iranian Defence forums. I found them both as patriotic about Iran as any other Iranian. I am proud of them.
These types are a minority Most Assyrians are not very fond of Iran as a country (especially Syrian/Iraqi ones), though that's not to say we don't admire its rich history and pre-Islamic culture, and we have no problem with the modern, more liberal-minded Iranians. My family doctor is Iranian (though a secularist) and she's a really decent person. We just do not like their government and their strong Islamist leanings.


You mean Saudi Arab mindset ? because traditionally Shia Arabs have been the most trustworthy and strongest allies of Iran.
Whatever the Iraqi Arab and Syrian Arab mindset stems from, some Assyrians fall victim to it very badly -- This became more evident recently when Trump assassinated Soleimani, where a lot of anti-Iranian sentiment spawned from Assyrians on social media.


We have no worries. We are well prepared as a nation, theocracy, alliance to deal with our enemies the way we have been dealing with them in their own houses.
Who are your enemies though?

[Halgurd]

This man is the representative of the Kurdish community in the Armenia's Parliament. Does he look typical for a Kurd?

https://d.radikal.ru/d32/1905/58/d3020637b7f1.jpg

He looks a bit like the Syrian singer Sabah Fakhri.

[Trouble]

They look less Euro shifted than Syrians somehow. The features are very distinct

[Zroota]

He looks a bit like the Syrian singer Sabah Fakhri.
Indeed, he looks more Semitic/Levantine shifted.

He seems like an Armenoid. Which is ironic, because he's from Armenia. Perhaps he may have partial Armenianancestry?