Classify two big-faced Soviet actresses

[Ymyyakhtakh]

I found both of them through Yandex's reverse image search.

#1 (Валентина Березуцкая / Valentina Berezutskaya):

https://i.imgur.com/S8REEMu.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/9z6qdV3.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/dX2o2Ew.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/qcbbxiL.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/kdKppVS.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ov3xrhq.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/GDy0cxg.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/uBjxWJl.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/JSTBZVm.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/isrS8I8.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/UF17MEU.jpg

^ Look at the difference in facial size in the last photo.

#2 (Екатерина Савинова / Ekaterina Savinova):

https://i.imgur.com/fSyDUSc.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/Tp8Q8i1.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/ASCaQ94.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/g3cHyXb.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/MuoMXWH.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/OXi3mnF.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/dBMKw8a.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/bkotT0T.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/dPyWDRQ.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/1GCMmIV.jpg

^ Again, look at the difference in facial proportions compared to the horse-faced lady on the right.

[Columella]

Both look strongly North Eastern Euro but I guess second one especially has counterparts in most Slavic countries.

Using old taxonomy terms
Valentina, in the Baltic range likely closest to Coon’s Ladogan or showing Uralic traits.
Ekaterina: close, more
Rounded Alpine/NeonDanubian again with likely Uralic influence.

[Davy Jones's Locker]

I think Baltic is the dominant element in both women.

[chociprasa]

Both are Ladogan with strong tendencies to Uralid.

[Viridian1]

1. Savolaxid + Neo-Danubian
2. Uralid + Alpine

[Pine]

Is this attractive?

[PaleoEuropean]

Both are Ladogan with strong tendencies to Uralid.
The first one maybe, but Ladogans have tiny skulls compared to other CM influenced phenotypes.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

The first one maybe, but Ladogans have tiny skulls compared to other CM influenced phenotypes.

Based on what?

Harkonnen compiled a list of average skull size measurements for various European series of crania. When I used Lee's formula to estimate cranial capacity based on the measurements (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?297965-Average-skull-dimensions-from-various-sites&p=6375222&viewfull=1#post6375222), the three highest-ranking sites were "Estonia Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age", "Kylälahti, 14th century Karelia", and "Zvejnieki, Early Neolithic". (Zvejnieki is in Latvia.) The average skull size in the Estonian and Karelian sites was around 1500 cc.

Humanphenotypes says that Ladogans have a "relatively low, very wide face with a great interorbital distance and a wide, heavy mandible." Doesn't a very wide face and a massive mandible usually translate to large overall skull size? Note that the skull does not only consist of the cranium.


Is this attractive?

Yes, once I become the ruler of the Uralische Empire, I will utilize selective breeding to create a race of humans with insane face size.

[PaleoEuropean]

Based on what?

Harkonnen compiled a list of average skull size measurements for various European series of crania. When I used Lee's formula to estimate cranial capacity based on the measurements (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?297965-Average-skull-dimensions-from-various-sites&p=6375222&viewfull=1#post6375222), the three highest-ranking sites were "Estonia Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age", "Kylälahti, 14th century Karelia", and "Zvejnieki, Early Neolithic". (Zvejnieki is in Latvia.) The average skull size in the Estonian and Karelian sites was around 1500 cc.

Humanphenotypes says that Ladogans have a "relatively low, very wide face with a great interorbital distance and a wide, heavy mandible." Doesn't a very wide face and a massive mandible usually translate to large overall skull size? Note that the skull does not only consist of the cranium.



Yes, once I become the ruler of the Uralische Empire, I will utilize selective breeding to create a race of humans with insane face size.

Lappids have a similar skull size to Ladogans
https://i.imgur.com/KS8OKBz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ykjXNEm.png
vs the largest skulls in Europe and Eurasia.
https://i.imgur.com/gI0gp3K.jpg

[PaleoEuropean]

Based on what?

Harkonnen compiled a list of average skull size measurements for various European series of crania. When I used Lee's formula to estimate cranial capacity based on the measurements (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?297965-Average-skull-dimensions-from-various-sites&p=6375222&viewfull=1#post6375222), the three highest-ranking sites were "Estonia Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age", "Kylälahti, 14th century Karelia", and "Zvejnieki, Early Neolithic". (Zvejnieki is in Latvia.) The average skull size in the Estonian and Karelian sites was around 1500 cc.

Humanphenotypes says that Ladogans have a "relatively low, very wide face with a great interorbital distance and a wide, heavy mandible." Doesn't a very wide face and a massive mandible usually translate to large overall skull size? Note that the skull does not only consist of the cranium.



Yes, once I become the ruler of the Uralische Empire, I will utilize selective breeding to create a race of humans with insane face size.

Also Latvia and Lithuania aren't ladogans or lappids, they are mostly East Europid, Alpine, Nordic

[Ymyyakhtakh]

Lappids have a similar skull size to Ladogans
https://i.imgur.com/KS8OKBz.jpg

Isn't the Lappid skull the skull of a child? How do you know what Ladogan skull size is?

I still don't know what the site near lake Ladoga is that Coon named his Ladogan type after. But these are EHG reconstructions from Lake Onega:

https://i.imgur.com/RFwqnA4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/StZ8qiG.jpg


vs the largest skulls in Europe and Eurasia.
https://i.imgur.com/gI0gp3K.jpg

What are their measurements?


Also Latvia and Lithuania aren't ladogans or lappids, they are mostly East Europid, Alpine, Nordic

In Coon's scheme, East Baltic is derived from Ladogan, and Coon considered East Baltic to be the dominant type in Latvia and Lithuania. In the map below from TRoE, the principal type is marked as East Baltic in the Baltic states and Western Finland, and as Neo-Danubian in Eastern Finland (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-VIII6.htm).

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-map9a.jpghttps://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-map9b.jpg

Coon said that East Baltids have larger heads than Neo-Danubians (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-IX9.htm):


In view of the general position of the central Finnic type, as exemplified by these Carelians, it has seemed most in accordance with the facts to leave the designation _East Baltic_ for the larger-bodied, larger-headed, and quite different population of the eastern Baltic states, whether Finnic or Baltic-speaking, and not to attach it to this clearly differentiated racial group which has its geographical center elsewhere. In view of the close similarity between this central Finnic type and the Danubian racial entity suggested by the early skeletal material, and in view of the fact that the earliest identifiable Finnic skeletal remains were mostly of this type, it has seemed appropriate, as stated in the concluding section of Chapter VIII, to name this racial type Neo-Danubian.

[PaleoEuropean]

Isn't the Lappid skull the skull of a child? How do you know what Ladogan skull size is?

I still don't know what the site near lake Ladoga is that Coon named his Ladogan type after. But these are EHG reconstructions from Lake Onega:

https://i.imgur.com/RFwqnA4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/StZ8qiG.jpg



What are their measurements?



In Coon's scheme, East Baltic is derived from Ladogan, and Coon considered East Baltic to be the dominant type in Latvia and Lithuania. In the map below from TRoE, the principal type is marked as East Baltic in the Baltic states and Western Finland, and as Neo-Danubian in Eastern Finland (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-VIII6.htm).

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-map9a.jpghttps://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe-map9b.jpg

Coon said that East Baltids have larger heads than Neo-Danubians (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-IX9.htm):


In view of the general position of the central Finnic type, as exemplified by these Carelians, it has seemed most in accordance with the facts to leave the designation _East Baltic_ for the larger-bodied, larger-headed, and quite different population of the eastern Baltic states, whether Finnic or Baltic-speaking, and not to attach it to this clearly differentiated racial group which has its geographical center elsewhere. In view of the close similarity between this central Finnic type and the Danubian racial entity suggested by the early skeletal material, and in view of the fact that the earliest identifiable Finnic skeletal remains were mostly of this type, it has seemed appropriate, as stated in the concluding section of Chapter VIII, to name this racial type Neo-Danubian.

Yea but Coon isn't the be all end all, he was an early contributor to the field. Also science has progressed far beyond the comprehension of anyone like Coon who contributed to the theories that we use today. Dna has proven that Baltics have the highest Western/Scand Hunter Gather admixture, however it's debatable if you take into account sample sizes.

[PaleoEuropean]

^^
Lappids and Ladogans are relegated to ethnic minorities and although they have a wide range, they by no means represent those areas

https://i.imgur.com/ejjMqbP.gif
https://i.imgur.com/sZC7AUr.gif

[Laag]

Ladogan is equivalent to Uralische. Ladogan is a term which was invented by Coon and according to him Ladogan is most common among Khanty and Mansi. In Russian anthropology the Uralische race proper is also the Khanty and Mansi.
Coon described Ladogan as Eastern Upper Paleolithic type. According to Bunak the Uralische race inherited the features of the oldest "undifferentiated" anthropological complex (type), which existed even before the division of mankind into Caucasoid and Mongoloid racial trunks.

[Corded]

East-baltids/ladogans

[Ymyyakhtakh]

Coon associated the Ladogan type with the Comb Ceramic culture (which was connected to Proto-Uralics in Coon's time, until Proto-Uralic was later redated to ~4 kya instead of ~6 kya). The range of Comb Ceramic doesn't extend east of the Urals:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Comb_Ceramic_Culture.jpg/300px-Comb_Ceramic_Culture.jpg

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-IX10.htm:


The earliest Baltic lands occupied by the invaders were Esthonia and much of modern Latvia, including especially Kurland and Livonia. These countries had, however, supported a population of some density for centuries before the Finnish arrival. The old Kammkeramik people of the tardy northern Neolithic are represented by the skulls from Salis Roje; large crania of at least two varieties, an incipient mongoloid, and a wide-faced mesocephal of Palaeolithic appearance. Food-producing people of a later date, who settled in numbers along the southern shore of the Gulf of Finland, are represented by numerous skeletal remains, which show them to have been a composite population characterized by extremely tall stature, robust bones and large bodies, large heads, with dimensions suggesting a blend of Corded and Upper Palaeolithic elements, comparable to that in western Norway. The early inhabitants of Esthonia were especially high headed, and long and broad faced. It is the combination of the Kammkeramik forest types with this extravagantly proportioned human form, and with the immigrant Finns from the Volga country, that has produced the modern Baltic Finnish racial entity.

However, Mansi used to live pretty far west in Europe (http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/Pven.html). In the map below, the red dots indicate places with Mansi toponyms.

http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/Pven.jpg