Indo-European steppe skeletons...

[Celto-Germanic]

Is there any database online - perhaps in Russian? - that has good pictures of Indo European remains? Like skeletons, skulls and also just artefacts recovered from the sites. Specifically the Fatyanovo and Potapovka sites. I have tried looking but came up dry

[NSXD60]

Very risky for any scholar to feature Whites prominently, especially college professors who could actually be fired for doing so. Not as bad in Russia but it's increasing there too.

[Immanenz]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Skull-of-the-woman-from-the-Shupta-burial-ground-kurgan-1-grave-2_fig2_281002916
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-skull-and-graphic-forensic-facial-reconstruction-from-burial-7-kurgan-11_fig2_304847706

[PaleoEuropean]

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Skull-of-the-woman-from-the-Shupta-burial-ground-kurgan-1-grave-2_fig2_281002916
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-skull-and-graphic-forensic-facial-reconstruction-from-burial-7-kurgan-11_fig2_304847706

Looks very indo-European xD

[Immanenz]

Looks very indo-European xD

well, with skull alone its a bit hard to say how they looked for real. Coon said Corded ware skulls had identical metrics to some Egyptian skulls- and they did, but that does not mean they looked alike
https://www.elsevier.es/en-revista-neurologia-english-edition--495-articulo-cranial-trepanation-in-the-egyptian-S2173580814000959#imagen-1
https://www.heidendom.com/images/titans/nordskull.JPG

whats also strange is Yamnaya had very similar metrics to Combe Capelle skull
https://i2.yuki.la/f/56/a120095955bfb5416edd7fae98c4287b4b649a3c550e4bba57 706e41a7e0156f.png

[PaleoEuropean]

well, with skull alone its a bit hard to say how they looked for real. Coon said Corded ware skulls had identical metrics to some Egyptian skulls- and they did, but that does not mean they looked alike
https://www.elsevier.es/en-revista-neurologia-english-edition--495-articulo-cranial-trepanation-in-the-egyptian-S2173580814000959#imagen-1
https://www.heidendom.com/images/titans/nordskull.JPG

whats also strange is Yamnaya had very similar metrics to Combe Capelle skull
https://i2.yuki.la/f/56/a120095955bfb5416edd7fae98c4287b4b649a3c550e4bba57 706e41a7e0156f.png

Also we have to take into account not all Indo-Europeans were particularly related, they were very diverse even the Cordeds and Yamnaya weren't a single entity but a group of similar cultured people who did have genetic diversity and probably different roots as indo-Europeans settled Europe in waves lasting up until basically the dark ages.

[Immanenz]

Also we have to take into account not all Indo-Europeans were particularly related, they were very diverse even the Cordeds and Yamnaya werent a single entity but a group of similar cultured people who did have genetic diversity and probably different roots as indo-Europeans settled Europe in waves lasting up until basically the dark ages.

exactly- EHG and CHG components (only Yamnaya) did look drasticly different from each other propably

[Faklon]

ON THE BIOLOGICAL DISTINCTNESS OF THE PIT-GRAVE (YAMNAYA) PEOPLE IN THE NORTHWESTERN CASPIAN: CRANIAL EVIDENCE
(https://coek.info/pdf-on-the-biological-distinctness-of-the-pit-grave-yamnaya-people-in-the-northweste.html)

The People of the Pit Grave Kurgans in eastern Hungary
(https://www.researchgate.net/publication/210293703_The_People_of_the_Pit_Grave_Kurgans_in_e astern_Hungary)

+

Anthropological types of Corded Ware and Yamna cultures
(http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/05/anthropological-types-of-corded-ware.html)

[Celto-Germanic]

well, with skull alone its a bit hard to say how they looked for real. Coon said Corded ware skulls had identical metrics to some Egyptian skulls- and they did, but that does not mean they looked alike
https://www.elsevier.es/en-revista-neurologia-english-edition--495-articulo-cranial-trepanation-in-the-egyptian-S2173580814000959#imagen-1


Where was the egyptian skull found? Is there a cultural complex of similar skulls?


Also we have to take into account not all Indo-Europeans were particularly related, they were very diverse even the Cordeds and Yamnaya werent a single entity but a group of similar cultured people who did have genetic diversity and probably different roots as indo-Europeans settled Europe in waves lasting up until basically the dark ages.

I mean, they were pretty genetically similar to one another, otherwise we wouldn't be able to trace their admixture in modern populations, and they all spoke a proto-language that was essentially mutually intelligible, I don't see how it's an impossibility that they thought of themselves as part of a distinct ethnic group vis a vis their less related neighbours - on the modern steppe we see vastly genetically unrelated groups all calling themselves Turks and Tatars - Siberian vs Volga tatars vs Khakas - and speaking related languages, even though they may be differing branches of the Turkic language family. The modern day bashkirs themselves, often seen as indistinguishable by other Tatars, have a completely different Y-Haplogroup majority to the Tatars. Could not the same be assumed of the early Indo-European peoples and their interactions? It feels sometimes to me like there is an unspoken resistance to thinking of Indo-Europeans as a distinctive ethnic group, in the face of strong evidence from linguistics genetics folklore and material culture.

Most studies proclaim that they had generally unified physical features, including dolichocephaly which was more pron in the Corded descendent populations than the Yamnaya descendent groups. Aside from the geographical(?) divide between R1a and R1b it doesn't really look to me like they were particularly diverse. The genetic distance between most Corded-linked and Yamnaya-linked samples is equivalent to the genetic distance between Norwegians and Englishmen. If they came across one another they would clearly be able to recognise they were close relatives. Linguistically the Centum-Satem divide provides a strong case for two major waves of Indo-European migrations, who were culturally and genetically very close to one another.

>In 2009, a genetic study of ancient Siberian cultures, the Andronovo culture, the Karasuk culture, the Tagar culture and the Tashtyk culture, was published in Human Genetics. Ten individuals of the Andronovo horizon in southern Siberia from 1400 BC to 1000 BC were surveyed. Extractions of mtDNA from nine individuals were determined to represent two samples of haplogroup U4 and single samples of Z1, T1, U2e, T4, H, K2b and U5a1. Extractions of Y-DNA from one individual was determined to belong to Y-DNA haplogroup C (but not C3), while the other two extractions were determined to belong to haplogroup R1a1a, which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Of the individuals surveyed, only two (or 22%) were determined to be Mongoloid, while seven (or 78%) were determined to be Caucasoid, with the majority being light-skinned with predominantly light eyes and light hair.


https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00439-009-0683-0

>"In the anthropological sense, the Fatyanovo culture people can be seen as a relatively homogeneous group with the greatest similarities, mostly in cranial features, to other Corded Ware cultures... Craniometric studies of skulls from the Upper Volga region reveal that the people of Fatyanovo culture are characterized by dolichocranic skulls..."

>[W]e turned to the Bronze Age Fatyanovo Culture individuals and determined that their maternal (subclades of mtDNA hg U5, U4, U2e, H, T, W, J, K, I and N1a) and paternal (chrY hg R1a-M417) lineages... were ones characteristic of CWC individuals elsewhere in Europe... Interestingly, in all individuals for which the chrY hg could be determined with more depth (n=6), it was R1a2-Z93... a lineage now spread in Central and South Asia, rather than the R1a1-Z283 lineage that is common in Europe... On the PCA, the Fatyanovo individuals (and the Estonian CWC individual) group together with many European Late Neolithic/Bronze Age (LNBA) and Steppe Middle/Late Bronze Age (MLBA) individuals on top of modern Northern and Eastern Europeans

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.02.184507v1