Classify and guess this group nationality

[sgillespie]

should not be difficult, especially looking at the way they are dressed

[Peikko]

Either Americans or South-Europeans.

[ChildOfTheJin]

South Americans

[sgillespie]

they are all pure europeans, but from where? Pic taken in september , so they are all well tanned.

[Sikeliot]

Sardinia

[ChildOfTheJin]

they are all pure europeans, but from where? Pic taken in september , so they are all well tanned.

Ah well if that's the case, I guess Portugal because the third guy from left looks like Pepe

[sgillespie]

Sardinia

none of them is sardinian, they are from different areas of their country, but still from the same country. Plus they don't look strikingly sardinians to me. I want the nation not the region.

[Sikeliot]

Italians but very atypical

[sgillespie]

not Portugal, in addition Pepe is Brasilian and a mixed one, it can not be a Portuguese or of any euro country, his african admixture is well visible.

[sgillespie]

why Italians and not greeks or spanish(for example)? I'd like to hear a reasoning behind that. Then they are not atypical at all if you look closely at them you will see that they range all types, don't be fouled by the deep tan. 2 of them are well over 1,80m (1 is 1,93)

[ChildOfTheJin]

not Portugal

Give us a clue ;)

[Anthropologique]

not Portugal

Would never guess Portugal, for sure. Are they Maltese?

[Anthropologique]

why Italians and not greeks or spanish(for example)? I'd like to hear a reasoning behind that. Then they are not atypical at all if you look closely at them you will see that they range all types, don't be fouled by the deep tan. 2 of them are well over 1,80m (1 is 1,93)

They are not typical of Spain.

[Anthropologique]

Ah well if that's the case, I guess Portugal because the third guy from left looks like Pepe

Pepe is not native Portuguese LOL!

[Sikeliot]

I guessed it based on clothes.

[sgillespie]

They are Italians, 2 of them tuscan, 2 of them half tuscan and half calabrese, 2 of them sicilian, one is from Campania(the third from left)

[Sikeliot]

They are Italians, 2 of them tuscan, 2 of them half tuscan and half calabrese, 2 of them sicilian, one is from Campania(the third from left)

One on far left must be Sicilian.

Btw they definitely do not look Portuguese, unlike what someone said. No way.

[sgillespie]

no, the two on the left pure tuscans, then campanian, half calabrese/tuscan, 2 sicilians, and again half calabrese/tuscan

[ChildOfTheJin]

Pepe is not native Portuguese LOL!

Ok fine I guess Brazilian then, jeez -_-

[Sikeliot]

The campanian guy must be mixed.. he does NOT look italian

[sgillespie]

The campanian guy must be mixed.. he does NOT look italian
well to be honest that is what I thought when I first met him.............I agree in certain pics he can look kinda mixed(we are friend also on facebook and especially these days, with a full beard he does look mixed), but he is not, you can find types like him(in small amounts) mostly in Campania (he is from Avellino), don't ask me why. He is an Alpine -med in my opinion

[Anthropologique]

Ok fine I guess Brazilian then, jeez -_-

Mixed race people in Portugal, Brazilian or otherwise, are just that. They are NOT indigenous Portuguese.

[Anthropologique]

well to be honest that is what I thought when I first met him.............I agree in certain pics he can look kinda mixed(we are friend also on facebook and especially these days, with a full beard he does look mixed), but he is not, you can find types like him(in small amounts) mostly in Campania (he is from Avellino), don't ask me why. He is an Alpine -med in my opinion

There must be some extra-European influence there. Maybe Egyptian / Arab.

[Sikeliot]

Or North African.
I mean some southern Italians can pass in those places but still.

[sgillespie]

There must be some extra-European influence there. Maybe Egyptian / Arab.
no no is a pure campanian, I know him personally and I find kind of difficult, seeing where he comes from (a small town in the mountains in the Avellino province) that he can have an admixture of any type. In winter he is not swarthy at all, he does have a normal olive skin tone pretty common in Italy especially in the south, but you can find indeed in Italy and in the rest of Europe, people with way darker skin than him.

[Newsboy]

I believe what sgillespie is saying. They just look like tanned Italians in dark lighting. The features are Southern European. I would never have guessed them as non-European.

[sgillespie]

I believe what sgillespie is saying. They just look like tanned Italians in dark lighting. The features are Southern European. I would never have guessed them as non-European.

EXACTLY! And some of them (2 on the left) tanned to the max................Just south euros, I would never guess this bunch like non europeans as a group and..........I know that as I am one of them............

[Newsboy]

Yes, nothing atypical about them. They're Italians, and most people there tan well. They do not look Levantine at all!

[Sikeliot]

Yes, nothing atypical about them. They're Italians, and most people there tan well. They do not look Levantine at all!

They definitely don't look Levantine but that one guy in the middle of the pic that I pointed out doesn't even look Italian but mixed race.

The others look fairly normal though. I wouldn't guess them as non-Euro except that one man.

[Luchon20102012]

should not be difficult, especially looking at the way they are dressed

I havent ever seen tuscans like that.

[sgillespie]

only the two on the left are 100% tuscans (I know because I am one of them) btw tuscans are not vikings, they are s.europeans and they look s.europeans

[JohnSmith]

They look South American

[Luchon20102012]

only the two on the left are 100% tuscans (I know because I am one of them) btw tuscans are not vikings, they are s.europeans and they look s.europeans

They are not nordic nor med, i think they are an intermediate between central and southern europeans, being not that different to austrians, northern italians, swiss or southern germans. Maybe the tan is too much.

[sgillespie]

They are not nordic nor med, i think they are an intermediate between central and southern europeans, being not that different to austrians, northern italians, swiss or southern germans. Maybe the tan is too much.
I don't know if you ever been to Italy, Tuscany is in the med, most people are meds or dinaro meds with some alpine and even some nordics, Tuscany lies at the same latitude of northern Spain(44 to 42 N), the extreme southern tip of France and Bulgaria and enjoys a med climate, how cannot be a med place with med people? Plus we have a strong etruscan components and etruscans came from middle east. In addition northern italians are in good parts meds too, you can't compare n.italians with austrians or even germans, let alone tuscans...........
Pvarotti, Tomba, Prandelli, Berlusconi they are all northern Italians , do they look like germans? And let's take into consideration average tuscans, Renzi(mayor of Florence) Pieraccioni actor, Ceccherini actor, Benigni actor do they look Germans? And I did not take into consideration swarthy tuscans like Carlo Conti or Gaetano Gennai.

[Luchon20102012]

I don't know if you ever been to Italy, Tuscany is in the med, most people are meds or dinaro meds with some alpine and even some nordics, Tuscany lies at the same latitude of northern Spain(44 to 42 N), the extreme southern tip of France and Bulgaria and enjoys a med climate, how cannot be a med place with med people? Plus we have a strong etruscan components and etruscans came from middle east. In addition northern italians are in good parts meds too, you can't compare n.italians with austrians or even germans, let alone tuscans...........
Pvarotti, Tomba, Prandelli, Berlusconi they are all northern Italians , do they look like germans? And let's take into consideration average tuscans, Renzi(mayor of Florence) Pieraccioni actor, Ceccherini actor, Benigni actor do they look Germans? And I did not take into consideration swarthy tuscans like Carlo Conti or Gaetano Gennai.

I agree when you said there is some med component in northern italians, because there were mass migration in the early 1900, but that didn´t affect the majority of ethnic ones, whom i still think they are in the dinaric/norid/alpine/atlantid combo. Ettore Bugatti, Maldini, Padelli, Agliardi, De Petri, Budel, Lanzoni, Bergamasco, Silvestri, Casiraghi, Barbara Berlusconi, Cota, Gazzi, Spanghero, Dotto, Marchisio are some of the examples of subraces in northern italy. Ethnic northern italians are proper central europeans and don´t differ from the other groups. Examples you mentioned are not typical at all, altough Prandelli is dark dinaric, and facial features don´t neccesarily strike me as swarthy.

We have to consider too that famous people are too few examples of a significant group, that is much more representative. I think tuscany, as many european countries, has significant amount of meds, but they are not the main group. Sereni, Abate, Totti, Richard Crenna, Lippi, De Rossi, Olivier, Crescenzi are types you can fairly see maybe even more than examples of dark tuscans you mentioned. Besides, i didn´t mention all germans, only southern ones (northern ones are proper scandinavians or nordics), which is full of alpinids, dinarics, norics, borrebies and atlantids, practically the same northern italians are.

[Newsboy]

Once again, sgillespie is correct. Italy is mostly a homogeneous and small country. Mediterranean types are dominant all over the country. Italy's coasts are all Mediterranean (even as far north as Monfalcone in Friuli) so the climate in the north (outside the alps) is mainly Mediterranean It's only a myth that northerners are fairer/whiter. You can find BOTH types in BOTH places!

[Luchon20102012]

Once again, sgillespie is correct. Italy is mostly a homogeneous and small country. Mediterranean types are dominant all over the country. Italy's coasts are all Mediterranean (even as far north as Monfalcone in Friuli) so the climate in the north (outside the alps) is mainly Mediterranean It's only a myth that northerners are fairer/whiter. You can find BOTH types in BOTH places!

LMAO!!!

[sgillespie]

I agree when you said there is some med component in northern italians, because there were mass migration in the early 1900, but that didn´t affect the majority of ethnic ones, whom i still think they are in the dinaric/norid/alpine/atlantid combo. Ettore Bugatti, Maldini, Padelli, Agliardi, De Petri, Budel, Lanzoni, Bergamasco, Silvestri, Casiraghi, Barbara Berlusconi, Cota, Gazzi, Spanghero, Dotto, Marchisio are some of the examples of subraces in northern italy. Ethnic northern italians are proper central europeans and don´t differ from the other groups. Examples you mentioned are not typical at all, altough Prandelli is dark dinaric, and facial features don´t neccesarily strike me as swarthy.

We have to consider too that famous people are too few examples of a significant group, that is much more representative. I think tuscany, as many european countries, has significant amount of meds, but they are not the main group. Sereni, Abate, Totti, Richard Crenna, Lippi, De Rossi, Olivier, Crescenzi are types you can fairly see maybe even more than examples of dark tuscans you mentioned. Besides, i didn´t mention all germans, only southern ones (northern ones are proper scandinavians or nordics), which is full of alpinids, dinarics, norics, borrebies and atlantids, practically the same northern italians are.

You should take a trip in Italy then. I am Italian (from Italy) I have been living in Southern Germany and the people there is totally different, they are tall and fair unlike the italians, you can indeed find light italians especially in the north, in the same number you can find in Spain more or less, but they are a striking minority, just some time ago I was talking with a friend of mine a very pale redhead from Veneto that said everytime he goes back home to Padua he gets mistaken for german as people talk to him in german when he goes to touristy areas as they mistaken him for a tourist.
the tuscans I isted are not dark ones? renzi dark? Are we crazy? Benigni and Pieraccioni dark? maybe we arejoking!
dark tuscans are carlo Conti, gaetano gennai, NovelloNovelli and so forth, for sure in tuscany aren't many super swarthy types like in southern Italy. Btw Berlusconi, northern italian, is not dark at all and he is a very good representation of northen italy' mainstream type alpine/dinaric. Tomba is pretty typical for Emilia Romagna. Italy is a population mainly brunette I speak because I know my people. I guess you are russian, I would never come up with any statement about Russia, as I have been there only 3 times and I don't know the regional variations, so I would never venture to assert how the Russians are.

[Luchon20102012]

You should take a trip in Italy then. I am Italian (from Italy) I have been living in Southern Germany and the people there is totally different, they are tall and fair unlike the italians, you can indeed find light italians especially in the north, in the same number you can find in Spain more or less, but they are a striking minority, just some time ago I was talking with a friend of mine a very pale redhead from Veneto that said everytime he goes back home to Padua he gets mistaken for german as people talk to him in german when he goes to touristy areas as they mistaken him for a tourist.
the tuscans I isted are not dark ones? renzi dark? Are we crazy? Benigni and Pieraccioni dark? maybe we arejoking!
dark tuscans are carlo Conti, gaetano gennai, NovelloNovelli and so forth, for sure in tuscany aren't many super swarthy types like in southern Italy. Btw Berlusconi, northern italian, is not dark at all and he is a very good representation of northen italy' mainstream type alpine/dinaric. Tomba is pretty typical for Emilia Romagna. Italy is a population mainly brunette I speak because I know my people. I guess you are russian, I would never come up with any statement about Russia, as I have been there only 3 times and I don't know the regional variations, so I would never venture to assert how the Russians are.

I am not ethnic russian, but half italian and half croatian and i have been in Italy (Veneto, Lombardy and Piedmont), not Tuscany, but i have seen thousands of tuscans in the forums, so i have quite an image of them. Venetians seem quite fair to me (between 1 and 2 of Fitzpatrick Scale) and i have seen some southern germans and there is no difference nor pigmentation or facial features (maybe some norics on german side or norids on italian side), maybe even some venetians would look a bit lighter, altough i don´t think that would be the rule in the majority of comparisons. Almost all northern italians with northern italian last names that i have known are really fair.

In terms of pigmentation you are right, the cases you mentioned are light brown to fair, but in facial features they seem of the med/gracil med/dinaro med and atlanto med stock, so they are more representative of some parts of southern italy. Berlusconi is quite tanned, and his facial features dont strike me as swarthy, but i think he is more in the dark side than in the light side of northern italy (altough his daughter is a very beautiful norid).

[sgillespie]

I am not ethnic russian, but half italian and half croatian and i have been in Italy (Veneto, Lombardy and Piedmont), not Tuscany, but i have seen thousands of tuscans in the forums, so i have quite an image of them. Venetians seem quite fair to me (between 1 and 2 of Fitzpatrick Scale) and i have seen some southern germans and there is no difference nor pigmentation or facial features (maybe some norics on german side or norids on italian side), maybe even some venetians would look a bit lighter, altough i don´t think that would be the rule in the majority of comparisons. Almost all northern italians with northern italian last names that i have known are really fair.

In terms of pigmentation you are right, the cases you mentioned are light brown to fair, but in facial features they seem of the med/gracil med/dinaro med and atlanto med stock, so they are more representative of some parts of southern italy. Berlusconi is quite tanned, and his facial features dont strike me as swarthy, but i think he is more in the dark side than in the light side of northern italy (altough his daughter is a very beautiful norid).

Believe me you cannot base your opinion on what you see on teh Internet, you gotta go to Italy not just those three regions...........Tuscans are med, the examples I gave are of average tuscans (benigni, pieraccioni and renzi) dark tuscans are Conti, Gennai, Bocelli etc etc. In north of Italy most people are not swarthy but not german looking either...........Croatians on teh other hand are very very light and supertall, even taller than germans and I base that on the many croatian girls I met and my visits in Croatia. Berlusconi is the typical north Italian, not swarthy at all, brunette with fair skin and refined traits. Unfortunately if you base your knowledge on Anthro forum you will have always a biased and not real view of a population, I know plenty of posters in other sites that try to portrait italians in a not real way (or too dark or especially now, too light, that seems the latest trend). Believe me you need to travel to a place, Tuscany, where I am from, it is swarthyland compared to Croatia or Slovenia f.e. but not too darker than N. Italy. And if you want the truth also the regional differences italy are exagerated.

[Newsboy]

Believe me you cannot base your opinion on what you see on teh Internet, you gotta go to Italy not just those three regions...........Tuscans are med, the examples I gave are of average tuscans (benigni, pieraccioni and renzi) dark tuscans are Conti, Gennai, Bocelli etc etc. In north of Italy most people are not swarthy but not german looking either...........Croatians on teh other hand are very very light and supertall, even taller than germans and I base that on the many croatian girls I met and my visits in Croatia. Berlusconi is the typical north Italian, not swarthy at all, brunette with fair skin and refined traits. Unfortunately if you base your knowledge on Anthro forum you will have always a biased and not real view of a population, I know plenty of posters in other sites that try to portrait italians in a not real way (or too dark or especially now, too light, that seems the latest trend). Believe me you need to travel to a place, Tuscany, where I am from, it is swarthyland compared to Croatia or Slovenia f.e. but not too darker than N. Italy. And if you want the truth also the regional differences italy are exagerated.

Sgillespie, on my other post I wasn't trying to be funny. I was just saying that the differences between Northern and Southern parts of Italy are greatly exaggerated. In Northern Italy, the people there aren't all blonde and blue/green eyed. For the most part, the people there are just like Silvio Berlusconi. They aren't 'dark' but not very German-looking either. Based on my personal experience, Northern Italians look more like Southern Italians than Germans or Central Europeans. This is especially true for the northerners from Emilia-Romagna.

[Luchon20102012]

Believe me you cannot base your opinion on what you see on teh Internet, you gotta go to Italy not just those three regions...........Tuscans are med, the examples I gave are of average tuscans (benigni, pieraccioni and renzi) dark tuscans are Conti, Gennai, Bocelli etc etc. In north of Italy most people are not swarthy but not german looking either...........Croatians on teh other hand are very very light and supertall, even taller than germans and I base that on the many croatian girls I met and my visits in Croatia. Berlusconi is the typical north Italian, not swarthy at all, brunette with fair skin and refined traits. Unfortunately if you base your knowledge on Anthro forum you will have always a biased and not real view of a population, I know plenty of posters in other sites that try to portrait italians in a not real way (or too dark or especially now, too light, that seems the latest trend). Believe me you need to travel to a place, Tuscany, where I am from, it is swarthyland compared to Croatia or Slovenia f.e. but not too darker than N. Italy. And if you want the truth also the regional differences italy are exagerated.

Indeed, i only have been in those regions and i can only talk for northern italians. Tuscans in the group pictures (talking about 20 or 30 people/photo) seem quite light for southern european standards (comparable to southern french), going from atlanto med to noric phenotypes. I agree croatians are light and i consider them central europeans, at least in the look, just as northern italians, altough northern italians have more swarthy types (for sure because of the inmigration). I think Gerry Scotti would be a decent example for old northern italians, and Davide Silvestri as for young northern ones. Northern italians as a group are in some way diverse: some of them would have southern italian or outsider european ancestry, but the majority would look lighter for sure than almost all southern europe. I would like to see the tuscans you probably consider more typical, because my view about what i have seen is that the majority of them are light (2 or 3 in the F.S.) and probably some of them wouldnt look out of place in places like germany, austria or switzerland, nevertheless as a whole Italy is darker than any of those countries.

[sgillespie]

Sgillespie, on my other post I wasn't trying to be funny. I was just saying that the differences between Northern and Southern parts of Italy are greatly exaggerated. In Northern Italy, the people there aren't all blonde and blue/green eyed. For the most part, the people there are just like Silvio Berlusconi. They aren't 'dark' but not very German-looking either. Based on my personal experience, Northern Italians look more like Southern Italians than Germans or Central Europeans. This is especially true for the northerners from Emilia-Romagna.

you are correct

[sgillespie]

Indeed, i only have been in those regions and i can only talk for northern italians. Tuscans in the group pictures (talking about 20 or 30 people/photo) seem quite light for southern european standards (comparable to southern french), going from atlanto med to noric phenotypes. I agree croatians are light and i consider them central europeans, at least in the look, just as northern italians, altough northern italians have more swarthy types (for sure because of the inmigration). I think Gerry Scotti would be a decent example for old northern italians, and Davide Silvestri as for young northern ones. Northern italians as a group are in some way diverse: some of them would have southern italian or outsider european ancestry, but the majority would look lighter for sure than almost all southern europe. I would like to see the tuscans you probably consider more typical, because my view about what i have seen is that the majority of them are light (2 or 3 in the F.S.) and probably some of them wouldnt look out of place in places like germany, austria or switzerland, nevertheless as a whole Italy is darker than any of those countries.

Let me explain you ( I do it because you seem truly to be a nice person, not one of those trolls that go around the web trying to start web-fights).
I am not someone that knows it all for sure, but I do know pretty well my country (that I love, now even more since for work reason I moved out of it). I have been allover Italy, I am from Tuscany and I know it well. In Tuscany, like in the whole of S.Europe, Cyprus and Turkey included you can find light people, even very pale , with blue eyes and blonde hair, but those are not the rule( as a matter of fact, those individuals normally are labelled with nicknames like : il biondo (the blonde), il tedesco(the german), lo svedese(the swede) just because are not your average type over there. In N. Italy you can find light types, but also dark types, but most of all Berlusconi-like types, not really med not really nordic (also because N.Italy is still S. Europe) the Alps really were big in dividing Italy from central Europe, of course N.Italy had invasion from Barbaric/germanic tribes, but so did the rest of Italy, Spain, even Turkey to don't talk about populations in the Balkans(Romania and Bulgaria included) that are areas filled with very light people(even though you can find darker and occasionally some swarthy type, if you exclude the gypsies). Tuscany is a notch darker than N.Italy, the average type in there is Pieraccioni (that is not a dark type at all by S.euro standards). S.France was once Italy, the original sub-stratum there is Italians/ligurians, then it became France and they mixed up, firstly with the central and Northern french (that are light people) then, starting around 80-90 years ago they really startedto have an invasion from North africa, armenia, middle east, S.Italy, Spain and Portugal, so it is extremely difficult to find a real s.frenchman unless you consider ethnic frenchmen those people that are the product of a multigenerational mixing with Algerians Moroccans sardinians, Portuguese etc...
Bottom line I don't know who is the darkest or the lightest amongst Croatians, N.Italians and S.Frenchmen that are all living at the same latitude, but I can speak for Italians, they(if you exclude Alto Adige that was Austria until1918 and the people there are still austrians)don't look german or austrian at all, like I guess (I am not croatian) that croatians don't look germans nor austrians as a whole, they have for sure their distinctive look.
If you base your knowledge from the internet you will know what people (I am talking about anthro forums) with agendas wants you to
see. A good way to see people on the web is just by googling them (for example to see tuscan crowds check f.e. the Palio in Siena ). I am attaching a pic of a people from the "calcio Storico fiorentino" players to render you the idea, you can be sure that those are from Florence or you can check "Sbandieratori fiorentini" and so forth.Check this link out https://www.google.com/search?hl=it&safe=off&q=Palio&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.dmQ&biw=1280&bih=680&wrapid=tlif136399233639110&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=FN9MUb_fMrD00QHrxYGIBA#um=1&hl=it&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=calcio+storico&oq=calcio+storico&gs_l=img.3..0l10.13793.20311.5.20619.15.6.9.0.3.0. 98.522.6.6.0...0.0...1c.1.7.img.jMQx8oygUP4&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.dmQ&fp=dd6e492690c5dadc&biw=1280&bih=680&imgrc=zmZhXK7VZs1mIM%3A%3BmZxTPTpC4XgQmM%3Bhttp%25 3A%252F%252Fblog.firenze-online.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2008%252F03%252Fcalcio-storico-fiorentino.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fblog.firenze-online.com%252Feventi%252F666%252Fcalcio-storico-fiorentino-azzurri-contro-bianchi-l8-giugno%252F%3B241%3B176
Hope I helped you.
3071830719

Ah as a last note, Italy is obviously way darker than those countries,you are comparing central europeans with meds, it's not even fair, Italy reaches 35.5 latitude south, with the island of Lampedusa, that means it goes further south than Portugal, Spain and Turkey, only Greece with Creta goes a little further south 35 of latitude.

[Luchon20102012]

Let me explain you ( I do it because you seem truly to be a nice person, not one of those trolls that go around the web trying to start web-fights).
I am not someone that knows it all for sure, but I do know pretty well my country (that I love, now even more since for work reason I moved out of it). I have been allover Italy, I am from Tuscany and I know it well. In Tuscany, like in the whole of S.Europe, Cyprus and Turkey included you can find light people, even very pale , with blue eyes and blonde hair, but those are not the rule( as a matter of fact, those individuals normally are labelled with nicknames like : il biondo (the blonde), il tedesco(the german), lo svedese(the swede) just because are not your average type over there. In N. Italy you can find light types, but also dark types, but most of all Berlusconi-like types, not really med not really nordic (also because N.Italy is still S. Europe) the Alps really were big in dividing Italy from central Europe, of course N.Italy had invasion from Barbaric/germanic tribes, but so did the rest of Italy, Spain, even Turkey to don't talk about populations in the Balkans(Romania and Bulgaria included) that are areas filled with very light people(even though you can find darker and occasionally some swarthy type, if you exclude the gypsies). Tuscany is a notch darker than N.Italy, the average type in there is Pieraccioni (that is not a dark type at all by S.euro standards). S.France was once Italy, the original sub-stratum there is Italians/ligurians, then it became France and they mixed up, firstly with the central and Northern french (that are light people) then, starting around 80-90 years ago they really startedto have an invasion from North africa, armenia, middle east, S.Italy, Spain and Portugal, so it is extremely difficult to find a real s.frenchman unless you consider ethnic frenchmen those people that are the product of a multigenerational mixing with Algerians Moroccans sardinians, Portuguese etc...
Bottom line I don't know who is the darkest or the lightest amongst Croatians, N.Italians and S.Frenchmen that are all living at the same latitude, but I can speak for Italians, they(if you exclude Alto Adige that was Austria until1918 and the people there are still austrians)don't look german or austrian at all, like I guess (I am not croatian) that croatians don't look germans nor austrians as a whole, they have for sure their distinctive look.
If you base your knowledge from the internet you will know what people (I am talking about anthro forums) with agendas wants you to
see. A good way to see people on the web is just by googling them (for example to see tuscan crowds check f.e. the Palio in Siena ). I am attaching a pic of a people from the "calcio Storico fiorentino" players to render you the idea, you can be sure that those are from Florence or you can check "Sbandieratori fiorentini" and so forth.Check this link out https://www.google.com/search?hl=it&safe=off&q=Palio&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.dmQ&biw=1280&bih=680&wrapid=tlif136399233639110&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=FN9MUb_fMrD00QHrxYGIBA#um=1&hl=it&safe=off&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=calcio+storico&oq=calcio+storico&gs_l=img.3..0l10.13793.20311.5.20619.15.6.9.0.3.0. 98.522.6.6.0...0.0...1c.1.7.img.jMQx8oygUP4&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.dmQ&fp=dd6e492690c5dadc&biw=1280&bih=680&imgrc=zmZhXK7VZs1mIM%3A%3BmZxTPTpC4XgQmM%3Bhttp%25 3A%252F%252Fblog.firenze-online.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2008%252F03%252Fcalcio-storico-fiorentino.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fblog.firenze-online.com%252Feventi%252F666%252Fcalcio-storico-fiorentino-azzurri-contro-bianchi-l8-giugno%252F%3B241%3B176
Hope I helped you.
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Ah as a last note, Italy is obviously way darker than those countries,you are comparing central europeans with meds, it's not even fair, Italy reaches 35.5 latitude south, with the island of Lampedusa, that means it goes further south than Portugal, Spain and Turkey, only Greece with Creta goes a little further south 35 of latitude.

I believe you know well your country, and i appreciate the gesture. In the group pictures of many anthro forums, i found some dark types, from gracil med to norics, but the frequency of light types were bigger than many parts of southern europe. Indeed, any place has dark and light types (you can find really nordic greeks or even turks), and the amount of your region seem definitely bigger than in many southern european places (i don´t think the people that posted those pictures were troll at all, because they didn´t cherry pick, only posted random people from streets or colleges). I think more than germanic, they received italic and celtic invasions, thats why the existence of haplogroup R1b, but thats less than the found in France, Britain or Spain (in Spain there are really a lot of light types, who easily fit in Scandinavia or Britain), you cand find a lot of meds (probably millions) in South, Central or Northern Italy, but in the latter they are not the majority, maybe because the native blood is still strong.

In the pictures you provided, the tuscans seem from atlanto med, to dinaric to norid, so they are in the same frequency i previously found and as a group they fit in southern france, and the pigmentation is an adaptation to the climate, so the features won´t get affected by that. In the other hand, Italy is probably the most diverse european country in phenotypes (south/North differences are important), and a group of southern italians wouldnt pass in germany, nor austria or switzerland (homogeneously light), perhaps only some individuals, but most northern italians in groups could fit or at least pass in those central european countries, because they have central european descent (italics and celtics), altough they have more swarthy or dark types than those central european countries, so probably if northern italian transform into italy and separate from southern italy, they would probably be the darkest central europeans, because of the non ethnic northern italians (whom are millions). If we only include the ethnic northern italians, southern french, the croatians would be at the top with northern italians and southern french pretty close. If we include both non ethnic groups in N.I. and S.F., the difference will be bigger, because the non ethnic southern frenchmen (algerians, north africans) are darker than southern italians (whom are the main group besides the natives). Apart from that, i agree Italy (with all the swarthy types) are clearly darker than any central european country, because we have to take the country as a whole, not by regions, but we know that if we look at a group of 20 tuscans or umbrians, and 10 or more of them are light, we tend to remove the less light types and fit the light types in the lighter countries, something not quite correct (we could also remove the light types and say they could fit in cyprus or turkey).

[Prince Carlo]

Sgillespie are you the sockpuppet account of the retard Libertas? I am curious.

[Luchon20102012]

I don´t know how to describe it, but tuscans give me more northern vibe, pretty similar to southern french. I have heard another tuscans that think the same and based in the pictures, we can´t be that wrong.

[Proto-Shaman]

Of which origin is the guy quite right?

[Peyrol]

Sgillespie isn't ''tuscan'', don't worry...it's a retarded non european troll with hundreds of fake accounts in many anthrophoras (and with a deep fetish for Tuscany) who's used to stalk other people's pictures and identities on FB and who pass 7/7 days posting idiocy on the web, as he did in some other famous anthrophoras.

[Peyrol]

Sgillespie, on my other post I wasn't trying to be funny. I was just saying that the differences between Northern and Southern parts of Italy are greatly exaggerated. In Northern Italy, the people there aren't all blonde and blue/green eyed. For the most part, the people there are just like Silvio Berlusconi. They aren't 'dark' but not very German-looking either. Based on my personal experience, Northern Italians look more like Southern Italians than Germans or Central Europeans. This is especially true for the northerners from Emilia-Romagna.

Since your ''personal experience'' is the web and some retarded cherrypicking in the anthrophoras by trolls and retarded mongrels like Sgillespie, shut up.
...and ''Emilianromagnans'' aren't an ethnic group and neither they've some strange appearence.

[Sikeliot]

I think northern Italians look closer to southern French and to Austrians than to southern Italians.. at least, ethnic north Italians. A lot of people in northern Italy today are of partial Sicilian or Calabrese ancestry due to those groups migrating north for better job opportunities, so you can't just look at a picture of people in northern Italy and assume they are all native to the region.

[Peyrol]

I think northern Italians look closer to southern French and to Austrians than to southern Italians.. at least, ethnic north Italians. A lot of people in northern Italy today are of partial Sicilian or Calabrese ancestry due to those groups migrating north for better job opportunities, so you can't just look at a picture of people in northern Italy and assume they are all native to the region.

Obviously, you're correct.

But here many people (selfdeclared ''tuscans'' included) have an agenda against us.

People think that the Alpes were some kind of mystical barriers, when in reality many states, included Piemont-Savoie, Lombardy and Venetic Republic, were transalpien for centuries

http://www.vive.moy.su/book/uniformology/U02.jpg

http://www.himandus.net/hofh/chauvin/villien/villien_map_savoy.gif

[noricum]

People think that the Alpes were some kind of mystical barriers, when in reality many states, included Piemont-Savoie, Lombardy and Venetic Republic, were transalpine for centuries

I think the alpes where as much as a divide as they where, and still are, a link between north and south and to some degrees also east and west. With their inhabitants, although beeing romance, germanic and slavic speakers, shareing undoubtly simmilarities in culture, beeing partly dicatated by the nature, and of course also ancestry/genetics. Sort of a europe in a compact package.

[Peyrol]

I think the alpes where as much as a divide as they where, and still are, a link between north and south and to some degrees also east and west. With their inhabitants, although beeing romance, germanic and slavic speakers, shareing undoubtly simmilarities in culture, beeing partly dicatated by the nature, and of course also ancestry/genetics. Sort of a europe in a compact package.

I totally agree, good post Noricum.

I wish all the ignorant people (and the troll) would understand this point, lol.

[sgillespie]

Sgillespie isn't ''tuscan'', don't worry...it's a retarded non european troll with hundreds of fake accounts in many anthrophoras (and with a deep fetish for Tuscany) who's used to stalk other people's pictures and identities on FB and who pass 7/7 days posting idiocy on the web, as he did in some other famous anthrophoras.
That's a stupid accusation, plus I am a 100% tuscan dear friend.