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How does the new discoveries confirm your statement in anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Artek
Quote:
Neither sample was I2a-Din. Loschbour was confirmed I2a1b* L621- L161-. The L621- means not I2a-Din, because I2a-Din is L621+. Nordtvedt places I2a1b as a whole at about 16k years old, so no contradiction. Similarly, Motala12 was I2a1b L621-, and hence not I2a-Din. It could have been I2a-Isles L161+ in theory, but could also have been I2a1b* like Loschbour. Again, no contradiction.
He said that (literally)I2a1b is about 2,5 kya or something. Certain Din-clade is another thing, although it needs more SNP's for proper timing.Quote:
Originally Posted by safinator
You're wrong, he said I2a1b found in Balkans is around this age not I2a1b in general as you can see in his tree hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Artek
http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net/T...r%20Hg%20I.pdf
Nordtvedt dates the TMRCA of all known branches at ~12k and its overall clade age at ~16k, basically there's nothing against the theory for now.
You've misunderstood me, because I wasn't precise enough. This user was wrong when interpreting Nordtvedt, not Nordtvedt about the clade age :).Quote:
Originally Posted by safinator
I know that those tested branches are ancestral to the Dinaric clade(and Disles as well) and I wrote as my second post to this thread.
Anyway, I wonder what will come up as a work of "The Rise Project". Maybe there is a time for some early I1 branches, along with R1a and other haplos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artek
Yah the theory goes that I2 was the Carpathian Slavic haplogroup and encompassed the north-east foothills of the Carpaths from Slovakia to Moldavia. However considering that Albanians seem to be relatively abundant in I2 given their small contribution from Slavs genetically, it doesn't really add up. Probably the I2 in the Balkans is indeed a founder effect from those Mesolithic lads, and it isn't a coincidence the most mountainous parts are also the highest concentration of I2. Mountainous terrain is an excellent preserver of haplogroups, we still got Oetzi-like haplogroups in the Alps and archaic haplogroups in the Caucasus.
The I2 in the west Balkans isn't particularly surprising as that could easily be written off as founder effect. The issue I have is for example, this Albanian I share with on 23andme carries I2a2b and plots leaning towards southern Europeans:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gospodine
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ir9nuo.png
Therefore I suspect founder effect is at play here otherwise you I2 folk would plot much more north. I've seen your results and compared to this Albanian you indeed do plot more towards the north, just a notch N-W of me, but strip away your Mesolithic-like ancestry in the form of mostly Slavic and small traces of Avar, Goth and Hallstatt ancestry, what you are left with is essentially this Albanian guy who could be used as an example of a basal, pre-Slavic Balkanite.... Actually, even more southern than him because Albanians especially Gheg highlanders even have a bit of Slavic themselves. Basically what I'm trying to say here is your Slavic ancestry makes it hard to tell how much I2-Mesolithic ancestry you actually have, if any at all.
A bit off topic, but if anything east-Balkans would be more better candidate than west-Balkans, specifically the Danube Delta area. The general consensus is that the Slavic homeland was situated here, roughly at a time when there was more forest coverage which agriculture later destroyed:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gospodine
http://i43.tinypic.com/e01o4n.png
Imagine such a hypothetical scenario of pre-proto-Slavs or whoever emerging from the west-Balkans.. Great, now meet some natural barriers like the Dinaric Alps, followed by the Carpathians and it makes it all seem unlikely. A much less complicated scenario would be Slavic languages arriving from what is now N-E Bulgaria when the ice melted.
Anyway, more questions, how did haplogroup I end up in Kurdistan? Only migration in that direction from Balkans was Cimmerians or Phrygians.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/att...0&d=1388000518
Northeast Caucasians has more ANE ancestry than Europeans
http://abload.de/img/desktop_2013_12_27_22nef0i.pngQuote:
An interesting implication of this analysis is that ANE-related ancestry may be particularly high in the
Northeast Caucasus, as both fitted and lower bound values for Lezgins and Chechens exceed inferred
ANE values for Europeans (compare Table S12.8 and Table S12.12).
In light of our other results, it is not surprising that these populations would have high ANE-related ancestry. They are at the northern end
of the Near Eastern cline (Fig. 1B) and have the highest values of common drift with MA1 among
Near Eastern populations (Extended Data Fig. 4), as measured by f4(Test, Stuttgart; MA1, Chimp).
This is the model for Near Eastern populations
NE2+UHG=Early farmers
NE1+ANE=Caucasians
http://abload.de/img/desktop_2013_12_27_22e9i0k.png
Not asiatic. Undifferentiated eurasiatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Capelli
They live in another dimension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Accountant
They are faster than light :D
Star Wreck!