Ask anything Slovenija related

[MCMXCV]

what Slovenian prodcuts you take most pride in for their quality and style?

If I first mention some relatively more widely known examples of iconic design from the past:

Rex Chair, a wooden foldable chair:


ETA 85, a landline phone made by the company Iskra:


K67, a modular kiosk made out of polyfiber:



What people mostly take pride in today, though, are food products: our wines, prosciutto (from the Slovene Karst region), pumpkin seed oil (do you know this product?), olive oil, kranjska klobasa (= Krainer Wurst), potica and prekmurska gibanica; basically all protected products/dishes.

Mineral water from Rogaška Slatina is claimed to be with the highest concentration of magnesium, and besides ordinary Donat, they are also selling this expensive version under another brand for Arabic countries and those who want to show off.


Most of our more important factories with long tradition didn’t survive the transition after the independence, which is a great loss. Elan still manufactures good skiïng equipment, Akrapovič’s motorcycle exhaust system is also known more widely, Pipistrel is a light aircraft manufacturer, including electric ones, but was recently purchased by an American company…

[MCMXCV]

1. Have Slovenes called themselves Slovenes (the respective word in Slovenian) ever since or is it a newer label? I ask because I've encountered a number of times that Slavs that had no own political entity often just were viewed generic Slavs without any particular tribal assignment.

I’m writing what’s known to me; I haven’t read any material specifically researching our autonym through history.

The proto-Slovene state was Carantania, preceded by the so-called Samo’s Empire, which was actually only an alliance of West (!) Slavic tribes, despite its name. It’s referred to as the earliest Slavic polity, but what’s important in this context is that it soon became a vassal of the Bavarians and later the Franks as the March of Carinthia. The etymology of Carantania isn’t undoubtedly substantiated; however, it’s certainly pre-Slavic: the presumtion is it either comes from *karra, a pre-Indo-European word for rock, or *karantos, meaning friend or ally in a Celtic language. From this name, the original Slovene name of Carinthia (Koroška = Kärnten), Korotan — from *korǫtanъ — emerged. In Czech, for example, the name of this land is still Korutany to this day. I believe I’ve even read somewhere (unfortunately cannot find the source) that the Czech name for Austria as a whole, Rakousko, may share this origin.

Fast forward to the nineteenth century, when the national awakening had begun all over Europe, by which point the predecessors of modern Slovenes identified themselves regionally (deželna identiteta = ländliche Identität) — based on the Habsburg territories (Inner Austrian provinces), not language or ethnicity — for centuries. In the spirit of the Spring of Nations, our intelligentsia also adopted this movement: it was mainly priests and other educated individuals and artists who were the proponents of these ideas. This is important to mention, as the overwhelming majority of Slovenes was peasants, and I’ve read articles that for some time, people had to been told “You are Slovenes, not Carniolans, Styrians etc.” This shows that our identity — in this sense — was built from top to bottom and didn’t appear on its own. The linking element was language, which also enabled movements, such as the Illyrian, that encompassed other South Slavic languages.

In a nutshell, prior to identifying as Slovenes, we identified as Carinthians (Korošci = Kärntner), Styrians (Štajerci = Steirer) and Carniolans (Kranjci = Krainer), respectively, depending on our location; there wasn’t a common and unified identity. This regional identity still exists today, to an extent, but within Slovenia/Slovenes. The only difference being that Carniolans are broken down into Upper, Lower and Inner Carniolans, and that the Littoral identity is more shaped than it used to be.

Despite all of this, I must mention the name Slovene (Slovenec in Slovene) wasn’t first invented during the aforementioned period. That already happened in the sixteenth century, with the publication of the first printed books in our language by Primož Trubar, who established the basis of the standard/literary language. In his Abecedarium and Cathechismus, he referred to the people as Slovenci in Slovene. Parallelly, in German, he referred to the language as Windische Sprache. (As an interesting fact, the first editions used the Schwabacher script for Slovene, but later editions were in Antiqua which persisted.) The Slovene word for Slavs is Slovani, albeit the origin is the same as for Slovenes, from *slověninъ. If literacy of the common people existed already during that period, a unified identity may’ve already emerged this early on…

[MCMXCV]

2. Connected to this: Have the Slovenes formed what is Slovenia or has Slovenia formed what are Slovenes?

In my view, it’s definitely the former. We existed as Slovenes prior to any notion of a possibility of an ethnic state. I don’t see in what sense it could’ve been the other way around. Are you referring to certain Slavic communities across the border (the Windische in Austrian Carinthia or the Slavs of the Resia Valley) not perceiving themselves as part of the (modern) Slovene national body?


I’m adding subsequent additional remarks and — in lack of a strikethrough feature — underlining the relevant passage about which I’m not completely sure anymore.

What you’ve mentioned in the original question regarding “generic Slavs without any particular tribal assignment”: I’ve never put an actual thought to it prior to now. I’ve never before been presented with such an option, to be frank. We aren’t learnt about history in that way, and, thus, I didn’t consider it a possibility. When I later responded to your question regarding potential older political movements, I came back to this and also the other answer (with the identity being formed “top to bottom”), and now I almost have more questions than answers myself. There could well have been influences the other way: “Slovenia” → Slovenes. What, specifically, I cannot say in this point in time.

What I can say with full confidence, though, is that the modern Republic of Slovenia — and any of its predecessors in the twentieth century — didn’t form the Slovenes. And I had this primarily in mind in my original answer. However, I won’t provide such a claim for older periods.

[Varda]

Do you know/understand Serbo-Caroatian?

[MCMXCV]

4. Considering how small (today's) Slovenia is, it has to my perception historically been enormously much distributed into different political entities. Is there any historical entity that is considered representing the core of Slovenia and Slovenehood, politically or culturally?

There are two such historical entities:

The first is Carantania (about which I’ve written a lot in my first reply) and its successor Carinthia. Carinthia — more specifically Gosposvetsko polje / Zollfeld — is commonly perceived as the cradle of Slovenehood and has somewhat of a mythic relevance, the most suitable analogy being with Serbs and (the) Kosovo (field). Minus the chauvinism.

The second is Carniola, whose importance grew as the number of Slovene speakers declined in Carinthia. As the only predominantly Slovene crown land within the Habsburg empire — with Ljubljana as its political and cultural centre — it represented the main Slovene administrative division. Carniolan (kranjski = krainisch) was the synonym for everything Slovene-related (language, people etc.) before that word — Slovene (slovenski = slowenisch) — itself replaced it. It appeared even outside of Carniola, referring to Slovene things in Styria and Carinthia. This applied as well to how other languages referred to Slovene, for example Russian:

Въ русскомъ языкѣ словенскій до ХІХ вѣка называли краинскимъ/крайнскимъ, виндскимъ​, карніольскимъ, карнійскимъ, хорутанскимъ, хорутанско-словенскимъ/хорутано-словенскимъ, крайно-словенскимъ. Съ конца ХІХ вѣка стало преобладать названіе словинскій, затѣмъ вытѣсненною современнымъ словенскій.

From the names listed, one can see that Carantania, Carinthia and Carniola used to be the places that gave relevant descriptive adjectives and proper nouns.

Our flag originates from the national colours (Landesfarben) of the Duchy of Carniola, which, in turn, came from its coat of arms (albeit, there are some disputes regarding the correct colours and their actual origin). It represented the core of the Slovene identity, many times at the expense of other, non-Carniolan ones.

[MCMXCV]

3. Has there at any time been a political movement among Slovenes for forming a separate Slovene national entity before the breakup of the second Yugoslavia?

Yes. There was a proposal during the Spring of Nations for a United Slovenia.

Here is the Map of Slovene Land and Provinces from that period:

[MCMXCV]

Do you know/understand Serbo-Caroatian?

Generations that went to school after 1991 have difficulties understanding it.

I, myself, had troubles understanding it when I was younger, but now — when I read various things on the internet — I’ve got more used to it. I don’t comprehend every word; however, I think I get the gist of it. It’s only passive knowledge, though; I can’t produce the language.

Spoiler!

Можем, да покушавам, или немам појма, ако има што од тога, шта напишем, смисел.

[rothaer]

I’m writing what’s known to me; I haven’t read any material specifically researching our autonym through history.

The proto-Slovene state was Carantania, preceded by the so-called Samo’s Empire, which was actually only an alliance of West (!) Slavic tribes, despite its name. It’s referred to as the earliest Slavic polity, but what’s important in this context is that it soon became a vassal of the Bavarians and later the Franks as the March of Carinthia. The etymology of Carantania isn’t undoubtedly substantiated; however, it’s certainly pre-Slavic: the presumtion is it either comes from *karra, a pre-Indo-European word for rock, or *karantos, meaning friend or ally in a Celtic language. From this name, the original Slovene name of Carinthia (Koroška = Kärnten), Korotan — from *korǫtanъ — emerged. In Czech, for example, the name of this land is still Korutany to this day. I believe I’ve even read somewhere (unfortunately cannot find the source) that the Czech name for Austria as a whole, Rakousko, may share this origin.

Fast forward to the nineteenth century, when the national awakening had begun all over Europe, by which point the predecessors of modern Slovenes identified themselves regionally (deželna identiteta = ländliche Identität) — based on the Habsburg territories (Inner Austrian provinces), not language or ethnicity — for centuries. In the spirit of the Spring of Nations, our intelligentsia also adopted this movement: it was mainly priests and other educated individuals and artists who were the proponents of these ideas. This is important to mention, as the overwhelming majority of Slovenes was peasants, and I’ve read articles that for some time, people had to been told “You are Slovenes, not Carniolans, Styrians etc.” This shows that our identity — in this sense — was built from top to bottom and didn’t appear on its own. The linking element was language, which also enabled movements, such as the Illyrian, that encompassed other South Slavic languages.

In a nutshell, prior to identifying as Slovenes, we identified as Carinthians (Korošci = Kärntner), Styrians (Štajerci = Steirer) and Carniolans (Kranjci = Krainer), respectively, depending on our location; there wasn’t a common and unified identity. This regional identity still exists today, to an extent, but within Slovenia/Slovenes. The only difference being that Carniolans are broken down into Upper, Lower and Inner Carniolans, and that the Littoral identity is more shaped than it used to be.

Despite all of this, I must mention the name Slovene (Slovenec in Slovene) wasn’t first invented during the aforementioned period. That already happened in the sixteenth century, with the publication of the first printed books in our language by Primož Trubar, who established the basis of the standard/literary language. In his Abecedarium and Cathechismus, he referred to the people as Slovenci in Slovene. Parallelly, in German, he referred to the language as Windische Sprache. (As an interesting fact, the first editions used the Schwabacher script for Slovene, but later editions were in Antiqua which persisted.) The Slovene word for Slavs is Slovani, albeit the origin is the same as for Slovenes, from *slověninъ. If literacy of the common people existed already during that period, a unified identity may’ve already emerged this early on…

Very interesting, thanks for elaborations.

I must admit, that Innerösterreich was an unknown to me term and entity. Noteworthy also that Krain goes down into Central Istria and contains Mitterburg (Pazin, which I once visited).

[Mortimer]

Is Argeta Slovenian or Croatian?

https://www.mpreis.at/shop/p/argeta-...8aAt9_EALw_wcB

[Mortimer]

Why Austrians like Croatians more then Slovenians eventhough slovenians are genetically and culturally less balkan more central-european/austrian shifted?