Anglo-Normans of England

[Mopi Licinius Crassus]

I think so. I also have another one in that side wich sounds very french (i believe normans introduced it) wich appears in some parts of England, it's Devereux, pretty interesting i think it was a toponimyc.

One of my teachers in school was called Mr Devereux

[drb234]

It's a fascinating book with lots to ponder, and he was broadly right on many things regarding ancestry, including the South Midlands having much French admixture (more than the Southeast), but it's perplexing that he concluded from medieval records that East Anglia doesn't have much French-like ancestry, as we now know that it in fact has the most in England. The relative lack of Norman/French names there would suggest that it mostly came before the Normans, but all the genetic evidence suggests that East Anglia was 75-80% Anglo-Saxon with almost no French blood until at least the 7th/8th centuries.

There's no point talking about 'Norman' blood/ancestry/phenotypes in England, as has been said the Norman elites were likely heavily Norse/Germanic and maybe not much different to the Anglo-Saxons they conquered, and there is still a part of Normandy (the Cotentin pensinsula) that is genetically similar to Southern English, due to the Saxon settlement there. It's only worthwhile talking about the greater mass of general French/Gaulish blood that came with them and before them to England, which is actually discernable.

I find the lack of French last names in England confusing when DNA points to a sort of mass-migration from France in the Medieval era.. You'd think there would be more..

[Oliver109]

It's a fascinating book with lots to ponder, and he was broadly right on many things regarding ancestry, including the South Midlands having much French admixture (more than the Southeast), but it's perplexing that he concluded from medieval records that East Anglia doesn't have much French-like ancestry, as we now know that it in fact has the most in England. The relative lack of Norman/French names there would suggest that it mostly came before the Normans, but all the genetic evidence suggests that East Anglia was 75-80% Anglo-Saxon with almost no French blood until at least the 7th or 8th centuries.

There's no point talking about 'Norman' blood/ancestry/phenotypes in England, as has been said the Norman elites were likely heavily Norse/Germanic and maybe not much different to the Anglo-Saxons they conquered, and there is still a part of Normandy (the Cotentin pensinsula) that is genetically similar to Southern English, due to the Saxon settlement there. It's only worthwhile talking about the greater mass of general French/Gaulish blood that came with them and before them to England, which is actually discernable.

The French that settled in eastern England could have been quite different to later French, i do notice that people from eastern England are often a bit less pale than people from say Scotland or the north east, eastern English have a more florid complexion with a slight tanning aspect, this is likely French influenced. It could actually be the case that the French that settled in eastern England actually came from the north and north east of France, there was a mention of Lincolnshire people resembling people from Antwerp though i can't remember if it is from this book you quoted.

[Oliver109]

One of my teachers in school was called Mr Devereux

Same here haha, she was quite posh and elitist

[Beowulf]

One of my teachers in school was called Mr Devereux

oh funny coincidence haha.

[Creoda]

I find the lack of French last names in England confusing when DNA points to a sort of mass-migration from France in the Medieval era.. You'd think there would be more..

True. A large percentage of English surnames are 'French' in origin but they are nearly all Norman from what I've seen. The Normans introduced surnames to England and you would expect a greater proliferation of French names from all over France, if they brought mass French migration with them.

[Oliver109]

True. A large percentage of English surnames are 'French' in origin but they are nearly all Norman from what I've seen. The Normans introduced surnames to England and you would expect a greater proliferation of French names from all over France, if they brought mass French migration with them.

Why would they come from all over France? most of the names seem to come from Normandy and some other areas of northern France or Flanders i.e Sissons(Soissons), Parris(Paris obvs), Danvers(Antwerp) and Fleming.

[Creoda]

The French that settled in eastern England could have been quite different to later French, i do notice that people from eastern England are often a bit less pale than people from say Scotland or the north east, eastern English have a more florid complexion with a slight tanning aspect, this is likely French influenced. It could actually be the case that the French that settled in eastern England actually came from the north and north east of France, there was a mention of Lincolnshire people resembling people from Antwerp though i can't remember if it is from this book you quoted.

I don't know, he does mention the later migration of Flemings and Walloons to East Anglia (as well as the fact that most surnames in Cranbrook, Sussex are Flemish) but there's no way that could account for the amount of French-like ancestry there.

[Oliver109]

I don't know, he does mention the later migration of Flemings and Walloons to East Anglia (as well as the fact that most surnames in Cranbrook, Sussex are Flemish) but there's no way that could account for the amount of French-like ancestry there.

The French like ancestry obviously predated the Normans, i did have a chat with Tooting a few weeks back about the high proportion of dark hair in Lincolnshire and Norfolk, that could stem from the French migrations. My ancestors are Lincolnshire and many could easily pass in France.

[Creoda]

Why would they come from all over France? most of the names seem to come from Normandy and some other areas of northern France or Flanders i.e Sissons(Soissons), Parris(Paris obvs), Danvers(Antwerp) and Fleming.

Because England was part of the Angevin Empire that encompassed basically the Western half of France. I've read before that the Normans recruited from all over France in their invasion of England, famously many were Bretons and Flemish (the Bretons ended up receiving land in Cornwall). Genetically the French ancestry in England also seems to be more diverse than just from Northern France. If you remember Anselm of Canterbury was from Aosta (then Burgundian, now Italian).