Ancient European g25 calculator

[cass]

En Garde!

I'm talking about a military saber. Although I doubt that the peasantry has such a thing.

[Kostek]

I'm talking about a military saber. Although I doubt that the peasantry has such a thing.

We have other weapons

[celticdragongod]

Celtic vs Germanic calculator:

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.02004545 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0160
0.02211517 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
0.02291825 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG
0.02997703 Insular_Celt:6DT3
0.03087437 Insular_Celt:6DT18
0.03199269 Insular_Celt:3DT16
0.03209042 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0156
0.03214916 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
0.03249859 Insular_Celt:6DT21
0.03270508 Insular_Celt:6DT23
0.03300440 Germanic:England_Scorton_Anglian
0.03615060 Insular_Celt:6DT22
0.03631814 GermanicEU_MA:ALH_1
0.04073058 Germanic:Netherlands_LIA
0.04776962 Continental_celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
0.05522127 Continental_celt:CZE_Hallstatt_BylanyA111
0.05882688 GermanicEU_MA_ACD:BIM_33
0.06249662 Continental_celt:Switzerland_EBA_2:TU907_SX20
0.06462179 Continental_celt:France_Metz_GalloRoman.SG:R2055.S G
0.06785113 Continental_celt:Austria_IA_LaTene
0.08767765 Germanic:Sweden_Viking_o1.SG
0.09575822 Continental_celt:Germany_Lech_MBA

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 1.4110% / 0.01410952
41.0 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0160
14.4 Germanic:Netherlands_LIA
13.2 Insular_Celt:6DT3
12.6 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
6.0 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0156
5.2 Continental_celt:Switzerland_EBA_2:TU907_SX20
3.4 Continental_celt:Austria_IA_LaTene
2.8 Continental_celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
1.4 Germanic:Sweden_Viking_o1.SG

Comprehensive ancient European calculator:

Distance to: CDG_scaled
0.02004545 Celt:England_IA:I0160
0.02211517 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
0.02291825 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG
0.02997703 Celt:6DT3
0.03087437 Celt:6DT18
0.03199269 Celt:3DT16
0.03209042 Celt:England_IA:I0156
0.03214916 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
0.03249859 Celt:6DT21
0.03270508 Celt:6DT23
0.03300440 Germanic:England_Scorton_Anglian
0.03474729 Celt:France_GrandEst_IA2
0.03524979 Celt:Czech_IA_LaTene
0.03615060 Celt:6DT22
0.03631814 GermanicEU_MA:ALH_1
0.03660017 Germanic:Norway_IA.SG
0.04073058 Germanic:Netherlands_LIA
0.04776962 Celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
0.05349043 Celt:France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
0.05522127 Celt:CZE_Hallstatt_BylanyA111
0.05882688 GermanicEU_MA_ACD:BIM_33
0.06321604 Slavic:Hungary_IA_LaTene_o
0.06344127 Slavic:Montenegro_Doclea_Roman.SG
0.06413284 Celt:Czech_IA_LaTene_Hallstatt
0.06514016 Slavic:Montenegro_IA

Target: CDG_scaled
Distance: 1.4092% / 0.01409213
44.6 Celt:England_IA:I0160
13.6 Celt:6DT3
12.6 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
11.4 Germanic:Netherlands_LIA
8.6 Celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
4.2 Celt:England_IA:I0156
2.0 Slavic:Ukraine_Cimmerians.SG
1.8 Slavic:Ukraine_Medieval.SG
1.0 Celt:6DT18
0.2 Roman:Greece_Minoan_Kephala_Petras.SG

[Rædwald]

Target: Rædwald
Distance: 1.7592% / 0.01759217
33.8 Insular_Celt
24.8 Continental_celt
22.6 Germanic
18.8 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG

Target: Rædwald
Distance: 1.7592% / 0.01759217
19.6 Continental_celt:France_Metz_GalloRoman.SG:R2055.S G
18.8 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
18.4 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG
13.0 Insular_Celt:6DT21
11.2 Insular_Celt:6DT3
7.2 Insular_Celt:3DT16
5.2 Continental_celt:Switzerland_EBA_2:TU907_SX20
4.2 Germanic:Sweden_Viking_o1.SG
2.4 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0160

==========================================

Target: Rædwald
Distance: 1.4134% / 0.01413357
43.6 Celt
16.4 Iberian
15.2 Germanic
13.0 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
8.0 Finno-Baltic
3.8 Slavic

Target: Rædwald
Distance: 1.4132% / 0.01413208
16.8 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG
16.4 Iberian:Spain_Medieval
14.0 Celt:France_GrandEst_IA2
13.6 Celt:6DT3
12.4 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
10.8 Celt:3DT16
4.8 Finno-Baltic:Finland_Levanluhta
3.8 Slavic:Ukraine_Cimmerians.SG
3.0 Celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
2.4 Finno-Baltic:Estonia_MN_CCC_1
1.4 Celt:6DT21
0.6 Finno-Baltic:Estonia_Medieval.SG

[Fabricius]

Celtic vs Germanic calculator:

Target: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 6.0657% / 0.06065703
71.4 Continental_celt
17.8 Insular_Celt
10.8 GermanicEU_MA

Distance to: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
0.06665410 Continental_celt:Germany_Lech_MBA
0.07247224 Continental_celt:Austria_IA_LaTene
0.07335286 Continental_celt:France_Metz_GalloRoman.SG:R2055.S G
0.08107292 Continental_celt:CZE_Hallstatt_BylanyA111
0.08317351 Continental_celt:Switzerland_EBA_2:TU907_SX20
0.08400080 Continental_celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
0.08916805 Insular_Celt:6DT22
0.09244691 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
0.09307443 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG
0.09356553 GermanicEU_MA_ACD:BIM_33
0.09371909 Insular_Celt:6DT21
0.09392350 GermanicEU_MA:ALH_1
0.09488836 Insular_Celt:6DT23
0.09511174 Insular_Celt:3DT16
0.09707382 Insular_Celt:6DT18
0.09852512 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0160
0.09981345 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0156
0.10516238 Insular_Celt:6DT3
0.10894441 Germanic:England_Scorton_Anglian
0.10898120 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
0.11034215 Germanic:Netherlands_LIA
0.14645803 Germanic:Sweden_Viking_o1.SG

***

Comprehensive ancient European calculator:

Target: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
Distance: 3.9031% / 0.03903057
75.6 Iberian
10.8 Finno-Baltic
9.6 Roman
4.0 Slavic

Distance to: Fabricius_simulated_g25_scaled
0.04455459 Iberian:Spain_Roman_oMixed
0.05188226 Iberian:Spain_Islamic
0.06057199 Iberian:Spain_Medieval
0.07153269 Celt:France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
0.08064785 Roman:Italy_Tuscany_Siena_EarlyMedieval
0.08069741 Celt:Czech_IA_LaTene
0.08107292 Celt:CZE_Hallstatt_BylanyA111
0.08158734 Celt:France_GrandEst_IA2
0.08227647 Slavic:Ukraine_Chernyakhiv_o.SG
0.08397782 Celt:Czech_IA_LaTene_Hallstatt
0.08400080 Celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
0.08468861 Slavic:Montenegro_Doclea_Roman.SG
0.08507824 Slavic:Hungary_IA_LaTene_o
0.08916805 Celt:6DT22
0.08934398 Iberian:Spain_MBA_Formentera_noUDG
0.09244691 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
0.09307443 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG
0.09356553 GermanicEU_MA_ACD:BIM_33
0.09371909 Celt:6DT21
0.09392350 GermanicEU_MA:ALH_1
0.09408671 Roman:Italy_Imperial_o2.SG
0.09488836 Celt:6DT23
0.09504546 Slavic:Ukraine_Cimmerians.SG
0.09511174 Celt:3DT16
0.09595606 Iberianortugal_MBA.SG

[ScandinavianCelt]

Does this happen again at higher distances?

23andMe on calc 2 increases Slavic until 1x & 2x:

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 1.9583% / 0.01958270
45.4 Celt
26.0 Germanic
23.8 Slavic
2.8 Finno-Baltic
2.0 Roman

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 1.9714% / 0.01971355 | ADC: 0.25x RC
47.2 Celt
28.4 Slavic
20.0 Germanic
3.2 Finno-Baltic
1.2 Germanicenmark_IA.SG

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 2.0977% / 0.02097658 | ADC: 0.5x RC
43.4 Celt
31.6 Slavic
25.0 Germanic

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 2.6529% / 0.02652889 | ADC: 1x RC
73.6 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
26.4 Celt

Target: SC_Official_23andMe_Scaled
Distance: 2.7602% / 0.02760202 | ADC: 2x RC
100.0 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG

----------------------

The averaged coordinates show it goes down at .5x to 21.4% and then disappears at 1x

Target: SC_Official_AveragedG25_Scaled
Distance: 1.6378% / 0.01637767 | ADC: 0.5x RC
48.2 Celt
21.4 Slavic
20.6 Germanic
5.0 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
4.8 Finno-Baltic

Target: SC_Official_AveragedG25_Scaled
Distance: 2.2411% / 0.02241130 | ADC: 1x RC
100.0 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG



Note: I'm thinking it could have blended in with some particular Vikings, but maybe first mixed with Celts somewhere. I'd have to do more analysis. I think based on my previous research, it came in mostly through Eastern Sweden via Balto-Slavic peoples. My Mom's Dad seems to be the most eastern in my family as far as modern genetics go. He was born on Gotland and his parents took him to America, leaving Sweden when he was just 11 months old.

[Kenshiro]

Target: Kenshiro_Scaled
Distance: 2.4909% / 0.02490851 | ADC: 0.25x RC
57.6 Roman:Italy_Tuscany_Siena_EarlyMedieval
20.4 Roman:Greece_Roman
8.6 Slavic:Montenegro_Doclea_Roman.SG
6.2 Celt:Czech_IA_LaTene_Hallstatt
3.6 Finno-Baltic:Finland_Levanluhta
1.8 Iberian:Spain_Islamic
1.8 Slavic:Ukraine_Cimmerians.SG

Target: Kenshiro_Scaled
Distance: 2.3545% / 0.02354490
17.0 Roman:Greece_Roman
15.6 Roman:Serbia_Viminacium_Roman_elite_2.SG
13.8 Roman:Greece_Minoan_Kephala_Petras.SG
13.2 Celt:Czech_IA_LaTene_Hallstatt
10.0 Roman:Italy_Tuscany_Siena_EarlyMedieval
9.0 Slavic:Montenegro_Doclea_Roman.SG
7.0 Celt:England_IA:I0160
5.8 Slavic:Ukraine_Cimmerians.SG
4.2 Finno-Baltic:Finland_Levanluhta
4.0 Continental_celt:Switzerland_EBA_2:TU907_SX20
0.4 Iberianortugal_C.SG

[arush]

The issue is you can create another type of calculator effect, making appear things more distant than they are too. I have seen that in studies of a particular country when one region shares nothing with a not so far region of the same country, which is obviously never the case. This is what happens also when you force too local components.

That's why i prefer ancient calculators, you trade distances sure (because ancients are noisy too) but at least what you score really means something and should be less random. Here it's clearly random to some extent for most central and north Europeans. I noticed also south euros have better distances in ancient calcs. It's like we are missing a little thing somewhere.

Thanks for that feedback. Just a few of my thoughts:
I would say the calculator generally seems to work well for both southern and Northern European populations. For example, in Italy, we see a clear gradient with the northern areas being more or a mix of Celtic and Roman heritage, while the further south you go the more predominantly Roman the mix tends to be, whilst most regions also contained considerable Iberian admixture, with these admixtures maxing sense when considering both the geographical locations of these regions and the history of Italy. As another example, Russians are shown to be largely Slavic but with a considerable Finno-Baltic component, especially the further north you go, which once again, aligns well with the geographical location. Further, Scandinavians are predominantly Germanic, whilst Sweden - located next to Finland - has some Finn’s-Baltic - whilst Norway has a considerable Celtic component due to the history of viking invasions and exchange with the British isles, including the northern isles Orkney and Shetland. Within the British isles, Ireland is overwhelmingly Celtic, as we would expect, whilst England has a large amount of Germanic heritage.

I think where we see the most inconsistencies is in some of the Central European regions, which makes some sense given that these categories I have used as ethnic labels, are not entirely homogenous, obviously there was some mixing between these groups. I think this is likely why the results in these regions are the most problematic as these are the areas which saw significant impacts from most of these groups, especially in areas such as Germany (Germanic, Celtic, Slavic and Roman) and in France (Celtic, Germanic, Roman, Iberian). For example, Seine Maritime (Normandy) only having 5% Germanic admixture seems unlikely, especially when neighbouring Brittany has 16%. Another example is Alsace, which is shown as only 10% Celt despite being more Celt then Germanic in my first calculator. I would appreciate any suggestions for how I could refine my samples/calculations. I thought that was an interesting point you made about the issues with making samples to localised, this wasn’t something I was aware of but your explanation makes sense. I’m thinking of how I could try to keep the samples fairly localised and representative whilst also achieving a good degree of precision. I also noticed for areas where I had both a national average and localised, i.e Germany, where the national total doesn’t seem to be a great reflection of the averages from the individual regions. I am also thinking that we can’t paint all of these regions with the same brush, for sample, Russian regions should probably include some near eastern and other Asian regions, whilst Mediterranean areas should include the near east as well as areas of North Africa. I’ll experiment with this in future samples.

[Wend-Kruzek]

Target: Kruzek_scaled ger-celt
Distance: 2.7959% / 0.02795854
39.2 Germanic
35.8 Continental_celt
14.4 GermanicEU_MA_ACD
10.6 Insular_Celt

Target: Kruzek_scaled slav
Distance: 1.6275% / 0.01627544
62.8 Slavic
28.2 Celt
5.0 GermanicEU_MA_ACD
4.0 Finno-Baltic

[noricum]

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 2.9386% / 0.02938613 | ADC: 0.25x RC
59.2 Continental_celt
34.8 Germanic
4.2 GermanicEU_MA_ACD
1.8 Insular_Celt

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 2.9386% / 0.02938613 | ADC: 0.25x RC
46.4 Continental_celt:Austria_IA_LaTene
34.0 Germanic:Sweden_Viking_o1.SG
12.8 Continental_celt:Switzerland_EBA_2:TU907_SX20
4.2 GermanicEU_MA_ACD:BIM_33
1.8 Insular_Celt:3DT16
0.8 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG

Distance to: G25noricum_scaled
0.04185559 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG
0.04273508 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
0.04804153 Insular_Celt:3DT16
0.04898831 Insular_Celt:6DT22
0.04984847 GermanicEU_MA_ACD:BIM_33
0.04998315 Continental_celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
0.05210254 Insular_Celt:6DT21
0.05428100 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0160
0.05580246 GermanicEU_MA:ALH_1
0.05630375 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
0.05672743 Insular_Celt:6DT3
0.05754080 Insular_Celt:6DT23
0.05815557 Continental_celt:Austria_IA_LaTene
0.05821457 Continental_celt:CZE_Hallstatt_BylanyA111
0.05917276 Continental_celt:Switzerland_EBA_2:TU907_SX20
0.06061417 Continental_celt:France_Metz_GalloRoman.SG:R2055.S G
0.06226287 Insular_Celt:England_IA:I0156
0.06248941 Insular_Celt:6DT18
0.06273954 Germanic:England_Scorton_Anglian
0.06521149 Germanic:Netherlands_LIA
0.08335890 Continental_celt:Germany_Lech_MBA
0.08900865 Germanic:Sweden_Viking_o1.SG

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 2.1862% / 0.02186173 | ADC: 0.25x RC
61.0 Slavic
39.0 Celt

Target: G25noricum_scaled
Distance: 2.1862% / 0.02186173 | ADC: 0.25x RC
22.4 Slavic:Montenegro_Doclea_Roman.SG
21.2 Celt:CZE_Hallstatt_BylanyA111
21.2 Slavic:Ukraine_Viking_o.SG
16.4 Slavic:Ukraine_Medieval.SG
9.2 Celt:3DT16
5.8 Celt:6DT3
2.8 Celt:England_IA:I0160
1.0 Slavic:Montenegro_IA

Distance to: G25noricum_scaled
0.03686806 Slavic:Montenegro_Doclea_Roman.SG
0.04086681 Slavic:Montenegro_IA
0.04185559 Germanic:Germany_EarlyMedieval.SG
0.04253667 Slavic:Hungary_IA_LaTene_o
0.04273508 Germanicenmark_Viking.SG
0.04406824 Celt:France_GrandEst_IA2
0.04407288 Celt:Czech_IA_LaTene
0.04453894 Slavic:Ukraine_Viking_o.SG
0.04804153 Celt:3DT16
0.04898831 Celt:6DT22
0.04984847 GermanicEU_MA_ACD:BIM_33
0.04998315 Celt:Czech_IA_Hallstatt.SG
0.05130826 Slavic:Ukraine_Medieval.SG
0.05210254 Celt:6DT21
0.05428100 Celt:England_IA:I0160
0.05580246 GermanicEU_MA:ALH_1
0.05630375 Germanicenmark_IA.SG
0.05672743 Celt:6DT3
0.05754080 Celt:6DT23
0.05821457 Celt:CZE_Hallstatt_BylanyA111
0.05909014 Celt:France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
0.05947671 Germanic:Norway_IA.SG
0.06200881 Slavic:Hungary_LBA_Halva
0.06226287 Celt:England_IA:I0156
0.06247083 Slavic:Ukraine_Chernyakhiv_o.SG